Inside Pitch

My bad, you weren't being satirical at all, you're just ignorant as to what a farm system is or the word inherited means You made a claim -- the claim being that he "inherited the best farm system in baseball." Now, to prove your point, you have listed 16 players. Of those 16 players, 5 were actually in the farm when MS took over, another 5 weren't even in professional baseball and one of them never played a single game for MS -- (Edmonds). Of those that were actually in the system, one had been released by Bavasi (Molina), only to be brought back by Stoneman and two were RPs. Only one of those 5 ever made an appearance on a top 100 list.. K-rod, who was 17 at the time and had pitched all of 56 innings in his career (short season ball). Pleasure talking baseball with you. I'll try harder in the future.

HOF worthy avatar you got there. +infinity

Nonsense -- Mike Scioscia inherited a powerhouse.. common knowledge, bro.

Precisely why I mention the Trachsel situation. They were so awful that THIS GUY https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/t/trachst01.shtml, was viewed as a big upgrade and the front office was ripped left and right for not trying to sign him. 8-18 with an ERA of 5.56 ...

This is supposed to be satire right? A play on reality and meant to make people laugh and not really to be considered an actual real opinion -- right? Please say it is.. The Angels farm system that Bill Stoneman inherited was ranked 30th by BBA -- Baseball Prospectus wrote that the best thing that could be said about the system at the time was that it couldn't be ranked 31st. BBA in speaking about the problems in the system pointed out it was the only farm system in MLB with only ONE player in his teenage years -- and that no other system had had that few since the advent of the draft. They referred to the system as being almost "incestuous" thats verbatim -- not my being cute with words. They claimed that many of the guys in the system were there solely as favors to people in the organization -- things were so monumentally awful that despite the MLB team having the talent it did, the organization was ranked dead last overall.. Either some of you were too young to remember or you were still Dodger fans -- but prior to Bill Stoneman and MS getting here the Angels were a rudderless ship completely devoid of any semblance of a plan or organizational belief system.. That's the team that MS took over.... A team so awful that when the Angels didn't sign Steve freaking Trachsel the local press acted like they passed on RJ or something. The dude had posted an ERA near 6.00 and lost 18 games the previous year and he was seen as a major get and a missed opportunity... There is definitely a new axis of stupid coming about. Guess we have Ohtani to thank for the renewed interest and everything that comes with it.

Good catch Arch...

I always hear the Mr Hankey the Xmas Poo voice when I see/read the Tarpy memes

Edit: Old article.... So, all is good.

But.. "common knowledge", bro.

I think it's just the evolution of the game and more and more information on injuries and how to prevent them. Teams often go with tandem starters in the minors as a means to keep guys healthier and also to weed out the guys who are better suited for the pen. I think it's only a matter of time before some team tries the tandem starter at the MLB level.. Given all the info they have on effectiveness and a pitcher's times through the lineup teams may end up doing it for performance reasons rather than as a means to keep guys healthy. MLB seems to be more willing to experiment than in the past.

So, using your special brand of logic.. Trumbo >> Salmon. Two ASG to none.. Clearly Trumbo is twice the player Salmon was. Good talk, Bro.

The back-up plan didn't last long -- Borenstien was moved at the deadline along with Joey Kreibeil (sp), for Joe Thatcher and a back up OF.. Tony Campana.... A JD special.

This thread has reminded me so much of Howie and how unappreciated he was by Angels fans... Grichuk like Kendrick seems to suffer more for what he isn't than what he actually is. Grichuk ranks 31st among all MLB outfielders for combined fWAR from 2015-2017... Much is made of his struggles but he's got positive grades offensively, defensively, and on the bases... There is no question he's a hack, and anyone who's read my posts over the years knows I put an extreme value on not making outs... It's just that he brings enough other things to the table that he is valuable even in spite of his atrocious plate discipline. I think he's better suited to the NL... I doubt he will ever see a sizeable improvement in his walk rate but he's got more to his game than people here are willing to give him credit for.

Freese was an Angel in 14 and 15. Cowart was drafted in 2010 and last ranked in the top 100 prior to the 2013 season. Wood was gone in 11... Not sure Wood factored into it... Who knows

The Brandon Wood experiment was over by 2010 and he was gone in 2011 before JD showed up... The Freese trade happened prior to the 2015 season -- four years after Cowart had been drafted. Cowart was viewed a top 100 prospects as late as prior to the 2013 in which he completely cratered... When he repeated the awfulness in 2014 it pretty much meant the Angels had to look elsewhere for their future 3B.

This is a good post.... I think you're glossing over some things but, I don't disagree with the general concept of the Angels having been trying to address a need and I saw no issue with the PB end of the deal. FTR.. My belief has always been that the motivation for this trade was Cowart's failure to develop... That was what set the whole thing into motion IMO. But the issue for me then and now is the same -- we supposedly had this forward thinking saber inclined GM who was also said to be well versed in the scouting end of the game and yet he pissed away a legit asset. It was the loss of value that chapped me. Grichuk was more than what he was moved for. It was on the saber end, ie... predictive stats, age related to league, and the park effects, that hinted he was better than what one would think by simply looking at traditional counting stats. Trading him wasn't the issue.. using him as a throw in to get a Salas type was... Salas was the sort of guy a good GM acquires for nothing.. as proof of that.... Billy Eppler did. Both Salas and Freese were non-tender candidates... Jerry Dipoto showed up to the talks with a visible hard on and got taken. It was a bad deal at hello and it only got worse when Hamilton went off the rails...

It takes a special kind of person to see their argument be completely shredded and still think they proved a point.... Trumbo btw is entering his age 32 season... Can't play defense, can't run, has produced 9.0 bWAR in his career. Trumbo is an example of a player who does one thing very well. Grichuk one who does one thing very poorly. The fact you think Grichuk is the lesser player is well.... Special.

Nothing but wins and money......

So.. just sticking to your criteria... Of the 90 potential starting OF spots in MLB only 38 hit at least 20 HRs -- of those 38, 11 had batting averages in the 240s. So all told less than one third of the possible OF spots in MLB were manned by OFers who hit better than .250 and had at least 20 HRs. Of the 38 OFers that did hit at least 20 HRs only Mike Trout (402), and Michael Comforto (373), did so in fewer at bats than did Grichuk (412). Guess that means a shit ton of OFs failed to live up to expectation eh? More importantly... The Angels spent 13 mil on LF, then traded for Upton to try improve on what they had already spent 13 mil on... Including Upton and his late season infusion of power, the Angels LFers combined for 14 HRs and a .243 average.. Grichuk made 550K last year, can play a passable CF and has the arm to play in RF... Dude doesn't have to be an all star to represent a decent value.

Oh, I get where you're coming from.. it's not Lou Brock redux, but there is no denying the Cards ended up ahead and the gap could potentially widen. In the end my issue then and now was how badly JD undervalued Grichuk.

He's actually entering his age 26 season... Dude still has breakout potential, still has upside -- he's just a hack. Again, like Moustakas.

And? The Angels onced moved Darin Erstad to 1B... Did you think he was a 4th OFer? A surplus of talent at one position doesn't mean a player sucks -- pretty simple concept. You can try to paint it however you want -- the reality is he's better than anyone we have had in LF in recent years and would have easily been starting out there over all of them... It's not hard to find teams he could slot in as an everyday OFer right now.. BTW.. in four years.. Grichuk will be as old as Pham was when he finally broke out.. Pham was 27 years old when he finally stuck...

Cards got what is basically 3 more WAR for league minimum... just out of Grichuk plus whatever they might get should they trade him. They got a shit ton of excess value out of that deal...

Career 785 OPS.... Bad OBP skills but 66 HRs and a career OPS+ of 107 through his age 25 season. 7 WAR in under 1300 at bats. Career positive oWAR, career positive dWAR... Sure wish we could find a 4th OFer that could pile those numbers up in what amounts to 2+ seasons... I mean, Ben Revere has managed 6.3 bWAR in 8 years and pver 3100 at bats. BTW -- just for giggles.. Mike Moustakas through his age 25 season -- 668 OPS, OPS+ of 82, 4.5 WAR, 1830 ABs... even now his career OPS is .730 to Grichuk's .785. Grichuk is basically Moustakas only he's both been better and worse (OBP).

Two years later... Dude was out of baseball for a year.