For those who support the trade

[Blarg]

Freese was paid less than Callaspo was last season. You can't play the salary game between two players playing infield and outfield.

 

This has less to do with overvaluing Bourjos than it does properly valuing Freese.  Bourjos will have a better season in every aspect than will Freese,and Freese will cost us more than Bourjos would have.  That's the crux of the trade for me.

[Angel Oracle]

Meh, Salas is another Gutierrez.

So we essentially traded a really good OF who can hit when healthy and a still solid 22 year-old OF prospect for a 3B who isn't very good defensively and was Callaspo-esque at the plate in 2013 and a 28 year-old Gutierrez clone?

Dipoto is a terrible GM hired by an angry owner whose meddling has set this team back some 5 years!

[Blarg]

Meh, Salas is another Gutierrez.

So we essentially traded a really good OF who can hit when healthy and a still solid 22 year-old OF prospect for a 3B who isn't very good defensively and was Callaspo-esque at the plate in 2013 and a 28 year-old Gutierrez clone?

Dipoto is a terrible GM hired by an angry owner whose meddling has set this team back some 5 years!

 

 The 2008 Angels were a 100 win team. Let's hope that is what Arte is up to.

[AngelsLakersFan]

Freese was paid less than Callaspo was last season. You can't play the salary game between two players playing infield and outfield.

 

Why not? The money we just spent on Freese is not that much different than the amount of money we just let Vargas walk over. 

 

Money is money.

[Blarg]

No, money spent on one position cannot be compared to money spent on another. The Angels replaced the 3rd base position with Freese that made $1 million less than Callaspo. Taking in arbitration for both players it is probable that Freese will still be making less than Callaspo in 2014.

 

Meanwhile Bourjos money is still being spent the same, his replacement will be Cowart at MLB minimum considering Peter never played full time last season and Trout is the Angels CF next season. So in reality the Angels are spending less this year when you consider all factors for the same positions being filled. What they spend on positions vacated in the pitching staff has nothing to do with this trade.

Edited November 23, 2013 by Eric Notti

[Second Base]

I can't think of one area of the org where I'm completely content except CF, RF and maybe catcher.

Pujols, Hamilton are massive questions. Kendrick is solid, but will probably be traded. Aybar had a really rough year. Trumbo is just Trumbo. The rotation is a disaster, the pen sucks. The farm is one of the worst in decades in baseball.

It's super hard being optimistic right now unless major changes are coming, but I don't see where they can come from.

 

Well you're right in that this team has a ton of question marks, more than anyone would prefer.  But try looking at all the reasons why this team might succeed rather than all the reasons you think they'll fail.  

 

Conger's looking solid at catcher.  It's nice to have an inexpensive homegrown, switch-hitting backstop that can drive the ball.  Pujols is the healthiest he's been since he arrived, which isn't a precursor to success but he's not done yet.  Hamilton actually looked good at the end of the year and made definite progress.  David Freese can hit the ball.  Grant Green can hit the ball. Mark Trumbo's a lock for 30+ HR's and we have the greatest player since Ken Griffey Jr. first came up in Mike Trout.  

 

As for the pitching, Richards is looking like a #3 SP, Wilson has #2 numbers, Weaver as well, so there's something to build off of.  Two more legit SP and this team is actually is really good position.  As for the pen, in the next year, we'll see Morin, Alvarez and Bedrosian all infused into late inning situations.  As for the prospects, Lindsey looks like a starting 2B, Cron like a starting 1B, Cowart like a starting 3B and Mark Sappington's in AA already and not getting rocked. 

 

The world's not ending.  At least not yet.  Let's wait one more year before destroying it all and starting over. 

[Oz27]

We need to stop with the Grichuk love affair.  Until a few days ago he wasn't even on the 40 man roster, and not many even cared.  Trading away Bourjos and Grichuk is probably very smart, it's called realistically valuing your assets and getting other holes/team needs filled.  Now as to whether Freese was the right choice to use those assets on, well that's another matter.  But that question can't really be answered until all the cards are turned, and this off season ends.

Do Arte Moreno and Mike Scioscia have naked pictures of you or something? Constantly defending the stupidest decisions is one thing, using insane logic like "a few days ago he wasn't even on the 40 man roster" (nobody is unless they've been in baseball long enough or are put on the MLB roster) just shows you're intent on defending the Angels, whatever the situation.

[Blarg]

Enough of the insults OZ.

[HaloCory22]

Enough of the insults OZ.

That isn't an insult. Its a legitimate question after that post from Seenoevil.

[Richard]

2 things will make this thing work:

 

Solidify the pitching staff somehow(We'll find out in the upcoming weeks)

Freese is able to come close to his 2012(If everyone is so sure Bourjos can replicate his 2011, why can't Freese his 2012 season?)

 

 

Happy to have Freese on the team. Hoping for the best.

 

 

 

[Stradling]

Mt, enough already.

[ScottT]

If Segura and Amarista were still here, I'd feel a heck of a lot better about trading away Aybar and Kendrick.  I'd also feel better about our pitching depth if John Hellweg and Ariel Pena were still in the system.  Not saying either would amount to anything, but having Sappington, Hellweg, Roth and Pena on our immediate depth chart would be a lot more comforting than our current position. 

 

Right now, we're one injury away from Joe effing Blanton in the rotation.  That can't happen.  

 

Hellweg, Amarista, and Pena.  Three guys the Angels don't miss and will never miss.  Segura may join that group shortly.   

[HaloCory22]

Damn, this place is more censored than Chinese media. Grow a back bone, folks.

[Oz27]

Hellweg, Amarista, and Pena.  Three guys the Angels don't miss and will never miss.  Segura may join that group shortly.   

You're right, what use could anyone have for a 23-year-old shortstop earning minimum wage and under club control for years to come?

 

Jeez, I'd murder to get him back. And Amarista would still be a handy player to have in our system.

[Stradling]

I love hindsight.

[Oz27]

That isn't an insult. Its a legitimate question after that post from Seenoevil.

Ha, I thought so too. As for insults, with some of the vitriol directed at anyone who has dared to complain about this move today, I thought they were all good.

[Brent Maguire]

Hellweg, Amarista, and Pena.  Three guys the Angels don't miss and will never miss.  Segura may join that group shortly.   

Is this the same Segura whose coming off a 3.4 WAR season at the age of 23? I'd absolutely love to have him instead of Aybar right now. 

[ScottT]

Yep, same one.  Same Aybar that's averaged a 3.5 WAR over the last three years, too.  

[Brent Maguire]

Yep, same one.  Same Aybar that's averaged a 3.5 WAR over the last three years, too.  

But wouldn't you want a younger, cheaper player who gives the same production? If we had him, it would open the door for Aybar to be traded and we wouldn't have the issue of playing Romine or Field at SS. Oh well, playing the hindsight game doesn't really help. 

[Oz27]

Yep, same one.  Same Aybar that's averaged a 3.5 WAR over the last three years, too.  

And, you know, Brendan Harris, Grant Green and Andrew Romine are all sooo much better than Jean Segura. And, as said above, Segura is incredibly young and can already perform at an Aybar level or better for a fraction of the price. Anyone who doesn't miss him is crazy or high...or maybe both.

[Blarg]

Jean Segura 2nd half of 2013 hit .241/.268/.315/.583. I think you guys should wait to see if he can put two halves of a season together before claiming he is a lost asset.

[Glen]

Well you're right in that this team has a ton of question marks, more than anyone would prefer.  But try looking at all the reasons why this team might succeed rather than all the reasons you think they'll fail.  

 

Conger's looking solid at catcher.  It's nice to have an inexpensive homegrown, switch-hitting backstop that can drive the ball.  Pujols is the healthiest he's been since he arrived, which isn't a precursor to success but he's not done yet.  Hamilton actually looked good at the end of the year and made definite progress.  David Freese can hit the ball.  Grant Green can hit the ball. Mark Trumbo's a lock for 30+ HR's and we have the greatest player since Ken Griffey Jr. first came up in Mike Trout.  

 

As for the pitching, Richards is looking like a #3 SP, Wilson has #2 numbers, Weaver as well, so there's something to build off of.  Two more legit SP and this team is actually is really good position.  As for the pen, in the next year, we'll see Morin, Alvarez and Bedrosian all infused into late inning situations.  As for the prospects, Lindsey looks like a starting 2B, Cron like a starting 1B, Cowart like a starting 3B and Mark Sappington's in AA already and not getting rocked. 

 

The world's not ending.  At least not yet.  Let's wait one more year before destroying it all and starting over. 

 

 

I'm just in a funk after the trade.  I like the improvement we've seen from Conger but if Iannetta is still here next year, Conger will be hard-pressed to get 70 starts.  Pujols should be better, as should Hamilton, but Hamilton's improvement came when there was a lot less pressure on him.  We can't bank on that progress remaining.  Freese is another question mark; will we get 2012 or 2013 Freese?  Trumbo is indeed a lock for 30 HR but he also seems to be a lock to disappear after the ASB.  I'd love to see 25 HR and a much higher OBP from him, but that isn't likely.  Trout is indeed awesome.

 

Richards looks like  4/5, not a 2.  ERA for August and September was 3.82 and 4.15.  Two more legit SP is a necessity, not a luxury.  We actually need at least three more, for depth.  

 

I just look at this team and right now, see little optimism.  I hope that changes before the start of next season.

[ScottT]

And, you know, Brendan Harris, Grant Green and Andrew Romine are all sooo much better than Jean Segura. 

 

I didn't know that.  Quite a leap from what I said.   

[Angel Oracle]

It's like I said by the time Blanton and Hanson had been added, this org is a TOTAL mess from the angry owner to the dumpster diving GM to the megalomaniac manager to the overrated roster to the barren farm system.

What's next, sign Arroyo and trade Trumbo, Kendrick, Borenstein, and Morin for an aging Cliff Lee?

[RePLAY]

Horrible trade. PB could have easily gotten us an ace. Stupid Dipoto.