2013 WS Game 3

[Mark68]

Intent does not factor into the rule. But he did lift his legs and then look at the runner. I actually think the intent was there. Ump at third pointed immediately and Joyce backed him up. I am a tad surprised they actually made the call. Redfux have no grounds for complaint, they got,cll reversed in game one.

Joyce was the ump at third.

[OregonLAA]

That was the correct call, but I hate that it ended that way. I'm just glad it happened to the Sox

[Kenny]

It makes sense.  I'm a hockey guy, and intent doesn't factor into your run of the mill penalties.  If you trip someone, whether you wanted to or not, it's a penalty.  If you elbow someone it's a penalty.  It works because you should really be responsible for where  your body parts are at all times.  In this case, i don't think he meant to impede the runner, but he still did, and if he didn't, he'd probably have scored a lot easier, or at least tagged the plate.

[QuinlansMinion]

He sticks his feet up for no apparent reason what so ever.

 

Dirty play and im glad they lost because of it.  Couldnt have been a better situation.

[Season Over]

Cards have been awesome as far as having great games vs teams I hate. This one tonight and then the GAme 6 WS vs Texas.

And the Dodgers

[CaliAngel]

Why is RS fan coming to our site during the WS?

 

Great timing right? As I'm sure you know, it happens around these parts during the Playoffs/World Series, we've seen Rangers fans do it too, we've seen Giants fans do it. Guess they like what they see when they browse this site...and it's hard to blame 'em.

 

Cards have been awesome as far as having great games vs teams I hate. This one tonight and then the GAme 6 WS vs Texas.

 

Yeah. Honestly, I know their fans have busted our butts for Pujols (well deserved), but I don't care about the fans, the players on the team are professional, and because of that IMO the Cardinals are probably my favorite NL team. They've been around for a while so they have history. Their fans are loyal. They win games. And above all, they play with class. The Organization threw that Lester cheating BS out the window the second they heard it, keeping what matters on the field. They know how to run a baseball organization, that's for sure.

 

Intent is a non-factor in that play. You can see Middlebrooks try to get up (that's when his feet went up, you can see him try to push himself up at the same time). He really couldn't get out of the way, but the umps got it right.

 

I dunno about "couldn't get out of the way" because if he was really trying to get out of the way, he woulda stayed flat. His legs were bent when on the ground after diving for the ball, they went flat, then were bent again for no reason when he knew the runner was trying to advance. He was trying to get away with something there, and it cost the team the game. SO GLAD the ump immediately called that. And as the rule states, there needs be no intent. Definitely not the way you want to lose a WS game, which makes it so much nicer that it happened against the Red Sox (who get away with a buncha BS like that all the time).

[HaloFan85]

He sticks his feet up for no apparent reason what so ever.

 

Dirty play and im glad they lost because of it.  Couldnt have been a better situation.

Or perhaps he thought for a second that he had to lift his feet from the third base 'line' to NOT block the runner from going down the actual third base line.  Regardless, the runner decided to go over and 'inside' the the baseline and 'initiate' the contact.  He could've just as easily went behind Middelbrooks, and down the line unimpeded if he wanted to, but decided to jump over and force contact.  I honestly believe the runner intentionally forced interference, which was actually a heads-up play. He obviously knew the written rule would favor him (smart base running).  Regardless, the rule is flawed if you don't think the fielder has as much right to the ball as a runner has to a base.  For instance, what if the throw bounced 5 feet away from Middlebrooks?  Would he still be called for interference?  The runner would've prevented him from 'fielding the ball' by pushing him down to the ground.

[CaliAngel]

^Please. This is the Red Sox. Middlebrooks was trying his best to be in the way without looking like it. To get out of the way you'd put your toes to the ground, not bend your knees to get your calfs in the air. And there was no way the complexity of the thought process you describe happened in that split second from either player. Their reactions afterwords say it all. The players involved in the play reacted on impulse. Craig saw the ball pass and was running his ass off to get home as quickly as possible, he would have cleared Middlebrooks if he didn't lift his legs, and wasn't "trying" to get tripped. Nobody in their right mind would "count on" the umpires to call obstruction like this.

 

Middlebrooks saw the ball went passed him and made a decision to make it tough for the runner to advance. And I actually think this was an impulse mistake, as I think the only reason this was actually called was because of the awkward effort put forth by Middlebrooks to get in the way of the runner in whatever way he could- umpires tend to see "red flags" on pretending. If the interference was truly a mistake, I don't think it would have been upheld the same way. The proof is that his movement on the ground was not natural at all. It's the same thing when players try try to drop line drives that are easily catchable to try and turn a double play. To the umpires credit in those instances, they catch on to that stuff pretty quick.

 

I don't think Middlebrooks actually thought what he was doing was going to cost them the game, hell it was a last ditch effort to try to keep the runner from getting to home as soon as possible. And if obstruction wouldn't have been called, it would have worked! Which is why I also don't think he expected the umpire would call interference in that moment during a game like this. Judging by the look on Craigs face after smacking his chin on the dirt near home during the slide, he couldn't believe it got called either. He had no clue that an interference call had even been made, he was just trying to score. Proof is that he basically threw himself at home plate in desperate attempt to touch the plate and was fazed at being called safe when it was pretty clear he was tagged before touching home.

 

Also: the hypotheticals are pretty much irrelevant. This is a case by case call, and nobody knows what would have been called if anything else would have happened. This was aggressive (somewhat dumb) baserunning by Craig that fortunately worked out, he forced the BoSox to make 2 perfect plays, and they blew it with ANOTHER throw to 3rd mistake by that has now cost them 2 games.

[sneaky_flute]

Regardless of your hate for the Red Sox, it was a terrible call. Craig's slide knocked Middlebrooks to the ground and caused the ball to be knocked loose. He should have been the one charged with interference.

[sneaky_flute]

Ignoring the fact that Craig's slide is what caused Middlebrooks to lose possession of the ball and the "obstruction" he's pushing down on Middlebrooks and Jim Joyce isn't even looking

 

[Blarg]

Yes, he is trying to climb over a prone Middlebrooks that is obstructing his path to home plate. The umpire turns to see Craig being tripped by Middlebrooks raised feet and made the call. Obviously you don't understand the rule.

Edited October 27, 2013 by Eric Notti

[sneaky_flute]

It wasn't obstruction in the first place because Craig's slide is what resulted in Middlebrook's falling and losing possession of the ball.

 

 

that's interference by the runner all the way

Edited October 27, 2013 by sneaky_flute

[Blarg]

You really don't understand the rules of baseball at all do you?

[Vernster52]

Obviously

[Blarg]

He needs to go back to posting about tranny feet and stay out of topics he knows nothing about.

[sneaky_flute]

Sorry, dude. You can't use a slide to take out someone who's not standing in the base path and then get an obstruction call.

[Blarg]

Sorry, dude. You can't use a slide to take out someone who's not standing in the base path and then get an obstruction call.

 

Again, you do not understand the rules of the game. They went over it on MLB Tonight just after the game in detail as to how the call is interpreted and used by both the umpire staff and Joe Torre himself. Then former 2nd baseman Harrold Reynolds explained how it was called at second base in double plays and steals all the time and he was even involved in them.

[tdawg87]

OBSTRUCTION is the act of a fielder who, while not in possession of the ball and not in the act of fielding the ball, impedes the progress of any runner.
Rule 2.00 (Obstruction) Comment: If a fielder is about to receive a thrown ball and if the ball is in flight directly toward and near enough to the fielder so he must occupy his position to receive the ball he may be considered in the act of fielding a ball. It is entirely up to the judgment of the umpire as to whether a fielder is in the act of fielding a ball. After a fielder has made an attempt to field a ball and missed, he can no longer be in the act of fielding the ball. For example: If an infielder dives at a ground ball and the ball passes him and he continues to lie on the ground and delays the progress of the runner, he very likely has obstructed the runner.

 

http://www.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/official_rules/definition_terms_2.jsp?target=Z&source=PJ_AD:Z:MLB&affiliateId=21181&clickId=715462988&affiliateCustomId=skim33330X911648X74e91877c2f2c2680061b3b81a71fcfd

[sneaky_flute]

Again, you do not understand the rules of the game. They went over it on MLB Tonight just after the game in detail as to how the call is interpreted and used by both the umpire staff and Joe Torre himself. Then former 2nd baseman Harrold Reynolds explained how it was called at second base in double plays and steals all the time and he was even involved in them.

I know what obstruction is. Craig deviated from the base path, knocking him to the ground.

[Lifetime]

You should stop sneaky. You're embarrassing yourself.

[Blarg]

That is the obs

 

I know what obstruction is. Craig deviated from the base path, knocking him to the ground.

Ok, now you are just trolling because Craig stayed completely in the basepath on a direct line to the bag.

 

Obstruction by the runner on a fielded ball only pertains to a ball hit in play, not thrown, unless the runner is completely out of the basepath such as a takeout slide at 2nd where the runner cannot touch the base after contact. In this case Craig and Middlebrooks are occupying the same space at the bag itself.

 

You are wrong.

[Blarg]

You should stop sneaky. You're embarrassing yourself.

 

Maybe you haven't read the thread about his girlfriend. I don't think he is capable of such an act.

[Lifetime]

You forgot the quotations around girlfriend

[sneaky_flute]

Read rule 7.09. When a defensive play is in progress, the runner has to make a beeline for the bag. Middlebrooks was off to the side when Craig slid into him, knocking him to the ground and causing the ball to come loose. The whole "takeout slide" shit you frequently see at 2nd base is a flagrant violation of the rules and it shouldn't result in obstruction on top of it.

[Blarg]

You forgot the quotations around girlfriend

 

We try not to judge here.

 

Even though we can help laughing at times.