good on article on Pujols/Cardinals

[yk9001]

I was one if the first to mention the TV deal parlay. I wasn't privy to any conversations, so I don't know how the deals got facilitated. Something as big as a TV deal takes time, but Arte is a good business man (I strangely know some guys in advertising that worked for Arte and Dennis Kuhl in Arizona that speaking highly of their business acumen), but so does a signing like the Pujols deal. I could see Arte telling Fox to up the ante and having a figure in place based on Pujols signing.

I also believe Arte when he says money isn't an issue and the team pretty much runs liquid now. He's positioned himself very well business wise. It's not really talked about, but the clubs exponential growth value wise is very impressive for 10 years.

 

I don't believe for a second that Pujols deal somehow brought riches to  Arte in terms of his tv deal.  Just like I don't believe that slapping the stupid LA of Anaheim name suddenly brought riches.  Everything I have read comes from the PR department (either this board, or Arte/henchmen; they have the same believability as a defense lawyer).

 

Hell, the ASTROS are supposedly the most profitable team in baseball - and its not just because of their miniscule payroll.  They have a fantastic cable deal...practically EVERY team has a fantastic cable deal - and they didn't sign an Albert Pujols.  You have to be a sh*tty owner NOT to have a fantastic cable deal and multiple revenue streams.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/23332281/forbes-2013-astros-most-profitable-mlb-team-ever

 

Rising tide lifts all boats.  Arte's revenues are increasing like crazy with or without a name change, or signing Pujols.  If the Astros can do it, anybody can.

 

Just my opinion.

[tdawg87]

Let's hate on Arte for pulling the trigger to what at the time was the most exciting signing all-time in Angels history. And received well by all of you.

 

Understood. Pretty much everyone was excited over the signing and the ones who weren't were not even remotely vocal about it. Arte brought in the greatest right handed hitter of our generation and Angels fans were ecstatic to get to see him play for their team. I know I was. I don't think it is fair to blame Arte for Pujols' poor start, so in that point I agree with you.

 

Let's also hate on Albert Pujols because he got off to a horrid April in 2012 and dealt with Plantar fasciitis until he was shelved.

 

 

Well now hold on a minute, you can't blame people for being upset at Pujols for his poor start so far with the Angels. Injuries and slow starts or not, he has been a monumental disappointment thus far and people are naturally going to be upset that this contract may end up being a complete disaster. Until Pujols proves that he can be Albert Pujols for 162 games in an Angels uniform, then people are going to be negative and disappointed.

Edited October 24, 2013 by tdawg87

[yk9001]

Understood. Pretty much everyone was excited over the signing and the ones who weren't were not even remotely vocal about it. Arte brought in the greatest right handed hitter of our generation and Angels fans were ecstatic to get to see him play for their team.

 

 

Well now hold on a minute, you can't blame people for being upset at Pujols for his poor start so far with the Angels. Injuries and slow starts or not, he has been a monumental disappointment thus far and people are naturally going to be upset that this contract may end up being a complete disaster. Until Pujols proves that he can be Albert Pujols for 162 games in an Angels uniform, then people are going to be negative and disappointed.

 

 

I didn't like the signing and I was not vocal about it.  I hate all multi year FA signings.  My Dodger friend a decade ago called me about the Vlad news, and I was like "meh".  So I don't like the good or the bad.

[Blarg]

and the "superfans" will continue to stick their heads in the sand.

 

Superfans in the offseason with their heads in the sand.

 

[tdawg87]

Is that guy naked?

[Jim]

Let's hate on Arte for pulling the trigger to what at the time was the most exciting signing all-time in Angels history. And received well by all of you.

Let's also hate on Albert Pujols because he got off to a horrid April in 2012 and dealt with Plantar fasciitis until he was shelved.

**** me, our fanbase is filled with negative nancy's and debbie downer's.

No hate here. Merely discussing the deal at the time and how it relates to the current roster of the Cardinals. 

 

Those negative Nancy’s and Debbie downer's you speak of, so frustratingly, drive your website. Dare I say they're good for business?

 

There are times during and after the season when I know the majority opinion on this site will be quite negative, too much for me to deal with at the time. Not being in the mood for obsessive whining and crying, I turn my attention elsewhere.  I might go visit the hangout, political or other sports forum for my fix (never soccer). I don’t have access to God, porn or the ladies forum, so I’ll find no relief there.

 

Maybe it’s too difficult for you to turn away for periods of time, being that you are so closely involved with this site. However, if only to save your sanity, you need to find a way.   

[Jim]

I didn't like the signing and I was not vocal about it.  I hate all multi year FA signings.  My Dodger friend a decade ago called me about the Vlad news, and I was like "meh".  So I don't like the good or the bad.

You not liking something and not being vocal about it has a certain unbelievable ring to it?  

 

Not that I disagree with the points you've made in this thread. 

[yk9001]

You not liking something and not being vocal about it has a certain unbelievable ring to it?  

 

Not that I disagree with the points you've made in this thread. 

 

 

Touche.

[Brandon]

Yeah, ibwas just talking to someone at work about that the other day. Ten years ago Moreno bought thisbteam for less than what he's on board to pay pujols. The fact he can do that in just ten years speaks highly to how good of a businessman he is.

He's signed off on some really horrible deals, sure. And those horrible deals have had a negative effect on the field, especially recently. That said, I don't for a second believe this team is in financial trouble.

To be fair, he did skimp the purse strings last winter that handicapped dipoto from going after more pitching. And I know he'd like to stay below the tax bracket. But just going based off his history, I doubt he chooses now tobstop spending money.

I'm sure long term he wants to reel it in, but I'm sure he's smart enough to know money is the only thing that's gonna fix the current team.

With regards to the bad deals he is merely thinking from a fan and marketing stand point and wanting "stars". At a bare minimum it builds the hype machine and creates intrigue, and hopefully these guys play close to their capabilities and you're competitive. Plus, when you open your wallet to bringing stars you're showing the fan base you're financially all in with winning (whether it's money well spent is another issue) and that's something fans appreciate....except here.

I understand what he's doing from a business standpoint, even if it hasn't translated on the field.

[Angel Oracle]

It would be nice if those "big signings" would produce. 

At least Wilson, save for post-2012 ASB, has earned his money.

[yk9001]

With regards to the bad deals he is merely thinking from a fan and marketing stand point and wanting "stars". At a bare minimum it builds the hype machine and creates intrigue, and hopefully these guys play close to their capabilities and you're competitive. Plus, when you open your wallet to bringing stars you're showing the fan base you're financially all in with winning (whether it's money well spent is another issue) and that's something fans appreciate....except here.

I understand what he's doing from a business standpoint, even if it hasn't translated on the field.

 

You are absolutely correct here... and fans are idiots for screaming DO SOMETHING!!! every offseason...

[Brandon]

I don't believe for a second that Pujols deal somehow brought riches to Arte in terms of his tv deal. Just like I don't believe that slapping the stupid LA of Anaheim name suddenly brought riches. Everything I have read comes from the PR department (either this board, or Arte/henchmen; they have the same believability as a defense lawyer).

Hell, the ASTROS are supposedly the most profitable team in baseball - and its not just because of their miniscule payroll. They have a fantastic cable deal...practically EVERY team has a fantastic cable deal - and they didn't sign an Albert Pujols. You have to be a sh*tty owner NOT to have a fantastic cable deal and multiple revenue streams.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/23332281/forbes-2013-astros-most-profitable-mlb-team-ever

Rising tide lifts all boats. Arte's revenues are increasing like crazy with or without a name change, or signing Pujols. If the Astros can do it, anybody can.

Just my opinion.

Not a good link to use. The first thing you see in bold is the Astros calling it inaccurate and that while the income numbers are speculated as strong it states most of it is going to debt because Crane's deal was highly leveraged.

The TV deal happened so quickly that I'm inclined to not believe it had any bearing, but I could also see contingencies in place for various reasons and something like loading up in FA is at least feasible. Bring star players, star players bring viewers, viewers bring ratings, ratings bring a lot of advertising dollars to the network.

We'll never really know unless he writes a memoir or someone spills the beans.

All major sports are extremely profitable. You have to almost be a moron to lose money when you have an umbrella protecting you and having you set up for success. It's why investors are overpaying for teams....what's 2.2B for the Dodgers when you are almost guaranteed an roi % that is steady and grows.

I'm not as dismissive of the things people nitpick like the name change or TV deals. If they were ignominious then why do them in the first place? Smart billionaire owners aren't making their money by doing things for shits and giggles.

Just my opinion as well. I don't have any proof.

[yk9001]

I just finished watching the 30 for 30 on John Spano, who was worth about $200,000 and got an $80 million loan from Fleet Bank in Boston, and was one more set of forged faxes from completely buying and financing the purchase of the Islanders... and for the short while he was in control, some journalist called *him* the third best owner in franchise history (because he secured a cable deal).

 

All of us just witnessed Frank McCourt's reign of error - and dumbass, tone deaf idiot who made what, a billion dollars for owning the Dodgers for a decade (insert your own $ number in there if you don't like that one).  And he bought the team on a credit card in the form of a parking lot.

 

You give the owners much more credit for business acumen than I do.  Potato/Po-ta-to.  You may very well be right.  I've seen enough owner tomfoolery over the years that I don't buy the premise that every owner makes every business move on sound, rational judgment.  Arte could have just hated the "Anaheim" name as a small town, Mickey Mouse name, and didn't want to be associated w it.   He found the proper loophole with the "Los Angeles of Anaheim" and went with it.

 

Just my opinion.

[Brandon]

Not necessarily giving the owners too much credit as much as respecting their business sense to own a team in the first place, or what got them there. McCourt is a great example. Most people would be sickened with his gains while I think it's genius to find the loopholes, leverages, and business sense to make what he did....I don't think a lot of people have that business sense and maybe I'm sick, but am inspired with outside the box thinking like what he did. Once in the owners seat it's pretty much money in the bank and automated outside of what you want to spend on payroll.

I'm going to try and find that 30 for 30, forgot it was on. Another good example of ingenuity and entrepreneurship. Sure, completely fraudulent and illegal, but the thought process to put it all together and almost pull it off is insane to me.

I actually enjoy this conversation and laugh that it's in a Pujols/Cardinals thread.

[yk9001]

I'm going to try and find that 30 for 30, forgot it was on. Another good example of ingenuity and entrepreneurship. Sure, completely fraudulent and illegal, but the thought process to put it all together and almost pull it off is insane to me.

 

As portrayed (including interviews) Spano isn't very likeable at all.  He either had huge chutzpa to think he could pull it off, or was completely reckless and wasn't thinking more than 12 hours ahead.  I tend to think the latter.

 

Oh, after he served a couple years in prison, he got out, started another equipment leasing company again, and got arrested again for some sort of fraud.

 

 

It just debuted the last couple of days, i am sure it will be repeated.

[Brandon]

I'm going to look for it online, I vaguely remember when it happened.

They should have rounded up the fraud owners into one gig. Could have had Kings owner Bruce McNall and Niners Debartolo.....who ironically was cell mates with a CPA I know.

[CardsFanVegas]

I'm rooting for the Cardinals to beat the Red Sox, but the attitude that we won't appreciate Albert as much because we're somehow worse fans is pretty insulting.

I'm not accusing all Cardinal fans, obviously. I just read several comments like that when Albert signed here.

 

I apologize for fans like that.  

 

That whole 'BFIB' label some Cardinals fans like to use annoys me.    I think there are great baseball fans of every team.   St. Louis is a great baseball town with a rich history, but fans of the Cardinals are not better than fans of other teams and I cringe at some of the attitudes I see from some of my fellow STL fans.

 

With that said, I do understand why Cardinals fans would think Anaheim fans won't have the same appreciation for Albert, but not because Angels fans are not as good of fans.   Its because Albert was homegrown in the STL organization and had an amazing 11 year run and became an icon for the team and the city.   What will happen in the next 8 years remains to be seen.