Obamacare/Trumpcare Horror Stories

[fan_since79]

17 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

As you know, I am pretty libertarian.  I wonder why things changed so drastically in the 70's that drove prices so high.  Up until then it was affordable.

Kind of like college.

Maybe when the government got more and more involved in subsidizing and controlling it, etc?

Banks are guaranteed the return of the principal on the loans. Colleges react by jacking up tuition? Maybe. Students borrow more and more money and college tuitions skyrocket.. Private colleges and universities run 50 grand a year or more, just for tuition.

Obamacare subsidizes millions of people, and Medicaid has been expanded under it. Why are we shocked when providers charge more, much more?

[Thomas]

34 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

Funny thing about the cost of medical care.  Neither the dems or reps seem to want to do anything about that.  The ACA did nothing and the two Rep abominations didn't either.

I saw this line and it's pretty much perfect in addressing this.
tl;dr (It's politics. It's always politics.)
https://www.livescience.com/51536-health-care-debates-political-opportunism.html

Quote

First came Nixon's National Health Strategy in 1971, which the Democrats ridiculed and fought tooth and nail, warning it would hurt the middle class. Nixon tried again in 1974 with his Comprehensive Health Insurance Plan and encountered the same partisan resistance.

In an essay published today (July 13) in the journal Pediatrics, University of Michigan researchers suggest that the Democrats' opposition to Nixon back then, compared with the today's Republican insurgency against the more conservative Obamacare plan, officially known as the Affordable Care Act (ACA), demonstrates that health care debates are more about political opportunism than a rational discussion to improve the health of the nation.

Although the plans are different and the times are different, the politicians in both cases relied on much of the same rhetoric to make their points, the researchers said. [7 Great Dramas in Congressional History]

"It's not that one [plan] is right and one is wrong," said lead author Dr. Gary Freed, a University of Michigan pediatrician and health policy researcher. Rather, a comparison of congressional reactions to the plans reveals "the dangers of elevating blind partisanship over meaningful debate about important issues for our nation's health" and "turn[ing] a blind eye to proposals simply because they're proposed by one party or the other," Freed said.

 

[krAbs]

3 minutes ago, Thomas said:

I saw this line and it's pretty much perfect in addressing this.
tl;dr (It's politics. It's always politics.)
https://www.livescience.com/51536-health-care-debates-political-opportunism.html

 

Well, you wanna go down THAT road, research seems to indicate that people's politics are dictated less by their own logic, and more by what appeals to whatever they consider their "group" to be. And, as such, our ideas are shaped by politicians more than the other way around.

 

Nothing matters. Nothing means anything. Lets drink.

[Thomas]

21 minutes ago, krAbs said:

Well, you wanna go down THAT road, research seems to indicate that people's politics are dictated less by their own logic, and more by what appeals to whatever they consider their "group" to be. And, as such, our ideas are shaped by politicians more than the other way around.

 

Nothing matters. Nothing means anything. Lets drink.

That's pretty dang self evident when you see how people adhere remarkably reliably down a political platform issue by issue. Even if the specific issue seems arbitrarily assigned to a political side.

[krAbs]

Just now, Thomas said:

That's pretty dang self evident when you see how people adhere remarkably reliably down a political platform issue by issue. Even if the specific issue seems arbitrarily assigned to a political side.

Right. I would give a select few leniency with the whole like...TECHNICALLY each party is supposed to have a fundamental doctrine, and all of its platforms are generated from that, so if you buy into that doctrine, then you would buy into most of the ideas that come from it. But...I think that's a stretch, especially for most people.

[mtangelsfan]

Most people identify with letters after names rather than true policies.  

[Thomas]

Note: I don't want it to seem like I'm implying that the Democrats played politics with the recent Republican bill. While they probably would given the chance, they weren't remotely given the chance. The Republicans intentionally made the bill so terrible that the Democrats couldn't take advantage of disavowing "Obamacare" and having a few actually vote for it and put the (mostly) GOP on the hook for healthcare.This latest round is all on the Republicans.

[Jason]

[mtangelsfan]

I can't remember the last time the Republicans did something right.  (Or at least beneficial to them)  The only thing they seem to do well is win elections.

[Adam]

Well that is really the only objective 

[Tank]

10 hours ago, fan_since79 said:

Maybe when the government got more and more involved in subsidizing and controlling it, etc?

Banks are guaranteed the return of the principal on the loans. Colleges react by jacking up tuition? Maybe. Students borrow more and more money and college tuitions skyrocket.. Private colleges and universities run 50 grand a year or more, just for tuition.

Obamacare subsidizes millions of people, and Medicaid has been expanded under it. Why are we shocked when providers charge more, much more?

there was a ballot measure here in california several years ago about school vouchers. i was doing a research paper on it for one of my masters classes, and as such, i interviewed several people on their feelings about it. the proposal would have allowed up to $3000 in credits for each voucher. when asking my school principal about vouchers, he said he favored them. when i asked him what it would mean to our school, he replied that it would mean we raised our tuition by $3000 a year per student.

[Tank]

10 hours ago, krAbs said:

Well, you wanna go down THAT road, research seems to indicate that people's politics are dictated less by their own logic, and more by what appeals to whatever they consider their "group" to be. And, as such, our ideas are shaped by politicians more than the other way around.

 

Nothing matters. Nothing means anything. Lets drink.

nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters, nothing really matters

to me.

(can you see the wind blow?)

[Thomas]

Okay I could see the Republicans passing the "skinny-repeal". 
http://www.businessinsider.com/senate-byrd-rules-gop-healthcare-bill-vote-skinny-repeal-2017-7
 

Quote

Right now, the conversation has shifted toward a "skinny repeal" bill, which would repeal both the individual and employer mandates and defund Planned Parenthood for a year

That's seriously having your cake and eating it too. Passing "a repeal" yet "Obamacare" still would be the law of the land but even more gutted and destined to fail. Really really dirty politics.

[RallyMo]

5 hours ago, Thomas said:

Okay I could see the Republicans passing the "skinny-repeal". 
http://www.businessinsider.com/senate-byrd-rules-gop-healthcare-bill-vote-skinny-repeal-2017-7
 

That's seriously having your cake and eating it too. Passing "a repeal" yet "Obamacare" still would be the law of the land but even more gutted and destined to fail. Really really dirty politics.

It's sooooooo incredibly screwed up.

It, unsurprisingly, is indicative of complete contempt for most Americans.

This is indefensible. What a bunch of assholes.

[Stradling]

How bout we fix the problems of health care, rather than what we are actually doing?  I won't be able to articulate this as well as others, but if the goal was to solve and make health care affordable, and to make sure everyone has health care, then why didn't we actually try to solve why it was so expensive?  I'd rather have people have no insurance and get to the point of civil discourse on the subject, something that will cause real change than do what we are currently doing.  There is zero reason for hospital visits to be so expensive.  There is zero reason we shouldn't be able to solve the issue with malpractice insurance.  There is zero reason we shouldn't be able to solve the high cost of medication.  We have absolultely learned that you don't solve it by insuring everyone.  I don't have the answer to any of this, but burn it down and start over.  And for fucksakes get rid of the crony political part of all of this.  

[Adam]

8 hours ago, Stradling said:

How bout we fix the problems of health care, rather than what we are actually doing?  I won't be able to articulate this as well as others, but if the goal was to solve and make health care affordable, and to make sure everyone has health care, then why didn't we actually try to solve why it was so expensive?  I'd rather have people have no insurance and get to the point of civil discourse on the subject, something that will cause real change than do what we are currently doing.  There is zero reason for hospital visits to be so expensive.  There is zero reason we shouldn't be able to solve the issue with malpractice insurance.  There is zero reason we shouldn't be able to solve the high cost of medication.  We have absolultely learned that you don't solve it by insuring everyone.  I don't have the answer to any of this, but burn it down and start over.  And for fucksakes get rid of the crony political part of all of this.  

We have an all powerful central government, made up of the scum of the earth. It would have to be worth it to them to "solve" it. It seems the currency they receive by not solving it is extremely valuable.

[fan_since79]

1 hour ago, Adam said:

We have an all powerful central government, made up of the scum of the earth. It would have to be worth it to them to "solve" it. It seems the currency they receive by not solving it is extremely valuable.

something, something...insurance and drug company donors...follow the money trail.

 

[fan_since79]

Guess what I got in my email Inbox today?

You may have already heard, but we wanted to let you know that Anthem Blue Cross (Anthem) will no longer offer many of our Affordable Care Act (ACA) individual health plans in California starting Jan.1, 2018. Until then, everything will stay the same.

 

BOOM!  There goes my health insurance.

 

 

[fan_since79]

It's official. Anthem will provide coverage only in Santa Clara County and parts of Northern California and the Central Valley.

But Obamacare is wonderful, right?

http://ktla.com/2017/08/01/covered-california-premiums-to-jump-next-year-anthem-blue-cross-pulls-out-of-most-of-state/

[krAbs]

^^Hu, weird. Its ALMOST as if the party that controls the government is doing everything it can to de-stabilize the markets and introduce as much doubt into their future as possible. We all know THAT can't be true though, cuz that would literally be insane.

[Amazing Larry]

Just now, krAbs said:

^^Hu, weird. Its ALMOST as if the party that controls the government is doing everything it can to de-stabilize the markets and introduce as much doubt into their future as possible. We all know THAT can't be true though, cuz that would literally be insane.

They don't have to do anything to de-stabilize the markets. The dems set that in motion when they passed obamacare.

[krAbs]

Just now, LHalo said:

They don't have to do anything to de-stabilize the markets. The dems set that in motion when they passed obamacare.

That's actually not true, according the the CBO.

 

[mtangelsfan]

13 minutes ago, krAbs said:

That's actually not true, according the the CBO.

 

Then why were insurance companies dropping like flies before Trump was even thinking about running for president?

[krAbs]

1 minute ago, mtangelsfan said:

Then why were insurance companies dropping like flies before Trump was even thinking about running for president?

Mainly because we had an incredibly complicated bill with plenty of flaws in its details, and a congress whose only proposed solution was "lets repeal it in 7 years maybe?"

[Amazing Larry]