Obamacare/Trumpcare Horror Stories

[Thomas]

7 minutes ago, Tank said:

Just you wait and see what Donnie tweets tonigh!! 

That sounds like like about the worst clickbait ever. 

[Tank]

3 minutes ago, Thomas said:

That sounds like like about the worst clickbait ever. 

It's the best click bait ever!  MAGA. 

 

[gotbeer]

More hospital closings in rural America add risk for pregnant women

 

[Taylor]

5 minutes ago, gotbeer said:

More hospital closings in rural America add risk for pregnant women

Sounds like this started happening before Obamacare, then Obamacare escalated the problem, then states refusing to expand Medicaid further escalated it. 

[krAbs]

I think the whole health care mess has raised an interesting split in the Republican party. A decent amount of people who hate Obamacare basically just want a better version of it. They complain about things like zones without insurance, high premiums, high deductibles, (ironically they also complain about the individual mandate, but uh...people be people) that sort of thing. Ironically, there is a huge faction of Democrats who agree with them on all of those things. There is another chunk that just hates the government in health care, and think that the free market would do a  much better job. You know, like how we were before the ACA, back when America was famous for its fantastic and efficient health care system...

ANYWAYS. What way does this board tend to lean? Or do y'all take what appears to be the more realistic standard republican viewpoint of "I honestly don't care that much about this issue, I just hate government spending." Which, btw, is a perfectly fine viewpoint. No one cares about every issue - no one really even cares about all important issues.

[fan_since79]

The bottom line is, none of the plans or programs advocated address the issue of exponentially rising medical costs. Health care before Obama was absurdly expensive, and it's only gotten worse since then. The Republican plans do not address this single most critical issue. The cost of care greatly outpaces inflation.

A friend of mine has cancer and he told me his chemotherapy would cost $36,000 a pop if he didn't have insurance. That's the 'retail' price for a 2-hour session. He has it four days a week for two weeks, and then a week off. So we're talking $288,000 every three weeks, and he's been on it for several months now. I know there's a "negotiated" price that's lower, but still...those kind of costs are passed along and it's one of the reasons premiums are skyrocketing all over.

[krAbs]

6 minutes ago, fan_since79 said:

The bottom line is, none of the plans or programs advocated address the issue of exponentially rising medical costs. Health care before Obama was absurdly expensive, and it's only gotten worse since then. The Republican plans do not address this single most critical issue. The cost of care greatly outpaces inflation.

A friend of mine has cancer and he told me his chemotherapy would cost $36,000 a pop if he didn't have insurance. That's the 'retail' price for a 2-hour session. He has it four days a week for two weeks, and then a week off. So we're talking $288,000 every three weeks, and he's been on it for several months now. I know there's a "negotiated" price that's lower, but still...those kind of costs are passed along and it's one of the reasons premiums are skyrocketing all over.

You're right, but I have yet to hear a solid theory on the mechanism acting here. The only theory I've heard that makes any sense is MAYBE if we had a party with enough leverage, they could effectively negotiate prices down (see: single payer health care system costs), but even that feels...optimistic. And it doesn't really get to the heart of the question of what exactly is happening here.

[UndertheHalo]

12 minutes ago, krAbs said:

You're right, but I have yet to hear a solid theory on the mechanism acting here. The only theory I've heard that makes any sense is MAYBE if we had a party with enough leverage, they could effectively negotiate prices down (see: single payer health care system costs), but even that feels...optimistic. And it doesn't really get to the heart of the question of what exactly is happening here.

theres no mystery.  whats happening is that theres an industry that knows it has life and death leverage in a country that has a culture that values wealth over everything.  other countries all over the world do the same things we do at obscenely lower prices.  its a joke.  People in the medical industry in the phillipines, or india, or egypt, or jordan or thailand or mexico name whatever country that has a large medical tourism industry.  Those medical professionals aren't living in hovels, they aren't doing it for free.  The industry fucks us because they can here.  thats it.

[fan_since79]

3 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

theres no mystery.  whats happening is that theres an industry that knows it has life and death leverage in a country that has a culture that values wealth over everything.  other countries all over the world do the same things we do at obscenely lower prices.  its a joke.  People in the medical industry in the phillipines, or india, or egypt, or jordan or thailand or mexico name whatever country that has a large medical tourism industry.  Those medical professionals aren't living in hovels, they aren't doing it for free.  The industry fucks us because they can here.  thats it.

On a related point, a quick search yielded this little nugget:

As Chair, President and Chief Executive Officer at ANTHEM INC, Joseph R. Swedish made $16,455,697 in total compensation in 2016.

Edited July 18, 2017 by fan_since79

[UndertheHalo]

2 minutes ago, fan_since79 said:

On a related point, a quick search yielded this little nugget.

As Chair, President and Chief Executive Officer at ANTHEM INC, Joseph R. Swedish made $16,455,697 in total compensation in 2016.

im sure he does all the heavy lifting healing people.

[Thomas]

38 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

theres no mystery.  whats happening is that theres an industry that knows it has life and death leverage in a country that has a culture that values wealth over everything.  other countries all over the world do the same things we do at obscenely lower prices.  its a joke.  People in the medical industry in the phillipines, or india, or egypt, or jordan or thailand or mexico name whatever country that has a large medical tourism industry.  Those medical professionals aren't living in hovels, they aren't doing it for free.  The industry fucks us because they can here.  thats it.

And that doesn't even include the actually legitimate reasons for high costs such as the obscene costs of student debt after medical school and malpractice insurance.

[mtangelsfan]

46 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

theres no mystery.  whats happening is that theres an industry that knows it has life and death leverage in a country that has a culture that values wealth over everything.  other countries all over the world do the same things we do at obscenely lower prices.  its a joke.  People in the medical industry in the phillipines, or india, or egypt, or jordan or thailand or mexico name whatever country that has a large medical tourism industry.  Those medical professionals aren't living in hovels, they aren't doing it for free.  The industry fucks us because they can here.  thats it.

It is easy to make that argument.  Everyone is greedy and people that want to get a return on their investments are evil.  As Thomas stated, there are plenty of costs medical personnel have to pay just to become medical personnel.  Also, ask yourself this, why do a majority of breakthrough drugs come from the U.S.?

https://www.quora.com/What-countries-have-lead-the-world-in-medical-research-and-innovation-in-the-past-20-years

There is a reason for that and it isn't benevolence.

[krAbs]

5 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

It is easy to make that argument.  Everyone is greedy and people that want to get a return on their investments are evil.  As Thomas stated, there are plenty of costs medical personnel have to pay just to become medical personnel.  Also, ask yourself this, why do a majority of breakthrough drugs come from the U.S.?

https://www.quora.com/What-countries-have-lead-the-world-in-medical-research-and-innovation-in-the-past-20-years

There is a reason for that and it isn't benevolence.

I often hear this, and it makes sense, except...its an odd line of reasoning. By that logic, shouldn't conservatives especially be clamoring for re-working our health care system so that WE aren't doing all the heavy lifting paying for medicine breakthroughs that will help THEM? Like...theoretically, if we were to implement similar price controls as every other country, then every country would be equally overpaying for medical breakthroughs (or proportionally however their economy dictates), rather than all the load being on the shoulders of America...you know?

 

So like, theoretically, the prices in the usa would go WAY down, and the prices everywhere else would end up going slightly up, so that everyone ends up paying more proportionally for the benefit they are getting.

[fan_since79]

But $36,000 for one chemo session?!

How about $20 for a Tylenol given in the hospital? Or $1,500 for an MRI? The list goes on and on.

[mtangelsfan]

3 minutes ago, krAbs said:

I often hear this, and it makes sense, except...its an odd line of reasoning. By that logic, shouldn't conservatives especially be clamoring for re-working our health care system so that WE aren't doing all the heavy lifting paying for medicine breakthroughs that will help THEM? Like...theoretically, if we were to implement similar price controls as every other country, then every country would be equally overpaying for medical breakthroughs (or proportionally however their economy dictates), rather than all the load being on the shoulders of America...you know?

 

So like, theoretically, the prices in the usa would go WAY down, and the prices everywhere else would end up going slightly up, so that everyone ends up paying more proportionally for the benefit they are getting.

Or, nobody would be willing to take the risk since the payoff would be minimal, which seems to be the case.  

[UndertheHalo]

32 minutes ago, Thomas said:

And that doesn't even include the actually legitimate reasons for high costs such as the obscene costs of student debt after medical school and malpractice insurance.

Abuse of Medical malpractice is something that absolutely has to be reigned in.  But doesn't that fall in line with our non stop money worship ? 

The same with student gouging, which is prevalent with all forms of education and not just medicine.  

Maybe at  the end of the day unconstrained capitalism isn't the answer for everything. Education and healthcare being easy ones to exclude from it.

Edited July 18, 2017 by UndertheHalo

[krAbs]

3 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

Or, nobody would be willing to take the risk since the payoff would be minimal, which seems to be the case.  

If no one is willing to take the risk, hasn't the free market spoken?

[UndertheHalo]

26 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

It is easy to make that argument.  Everyone is greedy and people that want to get a return on their investments are evil.  As Thomas stated, there are plenty of costs medical personnel have to pay just to become medical personnel.  Also, ask yourself this, why do a majority of breakthrough drugs come from the U.S.?

https://www.quora.com/What-countries-have-lead-the-world-in-medical-research-and-innovation-in-the-past-20-years

There is a reason for that and it isn't benevolence.

You don't think there's any middle ground here ? Why can't we have controls that still allow for lucrative returns ? This doesn't have to be a zero sum game. 

Edited July 18, 2017 by UndertheHalo

[red321]

https://mobile.twitter.com/JohnJHarwood/status/887356033894580228

 

As Senate health bill collapses, Trump takes credit for winning over most Republicans: "would have been 48-4. impressive by any standard"

 

 

[mtangelsfan]

5 minutes ago, red321 said:

https://mobile.twitter.com/JohnJHarwood/status/887356033894580228

 

As Senate health bill collapses, Trump takes credit for winning over most Republicans: "would have been 48-4. impressive by any standard"

 

 

He's delusional.  He makes Charlie Sheen seem logical.

[UndertheHalo]

18 minutes ago, fan_since79 said:

But $36,000 for one chemo session?!

How about $20 for a Tylenol given in the hospital? Or $1,500 for an MRI? The list goes on and on.

It's just abuse.  My favorites are the 10$ plastic cups for the "delivery of medicine".  Or the 8 $ grocery bags for personal belongings.  There's no justification for it.  

[mtangelsfan]

6 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

You don't think there's any middle ground here ? Why can't we have controls that still allow for lucrative returns ? This doesn't have to be a zero sum game. 

As you know, I am pretty libertarian.  I wonder why things changed so drastically in the 70's that drove prices so high.  Up until then it was affordable.

Kind of like college.

[mtangelsfan]

Funny thing about the cost of medical care.  Neither the dems or reps seem to want to do anything about that.  The ACA did nothing and the two Rep abominations didn't either.

[Thomas]

5 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

He's delusional.  He makes Charlie Sheen seem logical.

Not when you consider his motivations. You have to know what he's trying to sell and whom he is trying to sell to. He's perfectly sane and lucid when view from this perspective. He knows that there was zero motivation for the Republicans to pass a bill. They aren't going to take ownership of the dumpster fire that is healthcare. They never were. (See below) (Note his emphasis on "Obamacare")

Quote

“Let Obamacare fail, it will be a lot easier,” Trump said. “We’re not going to own it. I’m not going to own it. I can tell you the Republicans are not going to own it. We’ll let Obamacare fail, and then the Democrats are going to come to us and they are going to say, ‘How do we fix it? How do we fix it?’ Or ‘How do we come up with a new plan?’”

However he can go to the voters and tell them that he tried. Really really hard. And those inclined to support him will probably believe him. The Republicans are trying to have their cake and eat it too. And it seems like most people are inclined to let them.

[fan_since79]

11 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

It's just abuse.  My favorites are the 10$ plastic cups for the "delivery of medicine".  Or the 8 $ grocery bags for personal belongings.  There's no justification for it.  

Haha. Actually, why am I laughing? It's sad.

I recall reading a story (think it's posted earlier on this thread somewhere) where a guy ran up an enormous bill in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. They kept him in the hospital for weeks as they were dealing with his treatment. The nurse came in several times a day to take a simple blood glucose test (prick the finger tip and touch the test strip to the blood drop). Anyway, they charged him something like $30 for each test, and there were at least a hundred of them. Test takes about a minute to do. I'm sure the hospital buys these test strips by the thousands, so they must be cheap. The meter is cheap too. But 30 bucks each time! Gotta love the profit margin on that!