Bad Farm System Myth

[The God of Runs]

All I have kept hearing about the past few years is how bad the farm system of the Halos have been. Well, how bad could it be when it's produced players like Trout and Calhoun?

[Tyler]

Depth.

[eaterfan]

The farm was middle of the road heading into last year. Since then it has traded away or promoted most of the top prospects. While no team has produced a Trout in the last two years there are a ton of teams out there that have produced as much as the Angels system has with Trout, Richards and Calhoun.

[Pbonetheman]

Though, I would have to argue our farm didn't produce Trout. We were just the lucky ones to draft him.

[Docwaukee]

they don't have a legit SP prospect that likely grades above a fringe #5 who started at AA or above. 

 

and maybe a couple of relievers that may end up in the middle of a bullpen at some point in their careers who started at AA or above. 

[Angel Oracle]

Even Romine is hitting better now.

Not much has gone wrong over the past 24 games, hottest team in MLB in that time.

[YouthofToday]

The farm was middle of the road heading into last year. Since then it has traded away or promoted most of the top prospects. While no team has produced a Trout in the last two years there are a ton of teams out there that have produced as much as the Angels system has with Trout, Richards and Calhoun.

This. Additionally, folks like Cowart have fallen apart.

We are probably the favorites for the worst farm system in baseball entering 2013. The lack of a Rule 4 1st round pick the last two years puts us in an even further hole to recover from.

[The God of Runs]

Well, I just remembered when the Angels were considered a top farm system, producing the likes of Brandon Wood and Mathis

[Second Base]

The Angels were definitely better than they were given credit for in the past couple years.  Coming up with Trout, Richards, Calhoun and Segura didn't happen by accident.

 

The farm system is incredibly weak right in the depth department right now.  Outside of the Top 10 it's murky.  There's still some high-end talent around though.  Green, Sappington, Morin, Alvarez, Lindsey, Cowart, Cron, Grichuk, Yarbrough and Stamets all bring something exciting to the table. 

[Angel Oracle]

Definitely can't forget Borenstein, plus Snyder may join that group, big run producer.

Edited September 17, 2013 by Angel Oracle

[eaterfan]

The Angels were definitely better than they were given credit for in the past couple years.  Coming up with Trout, Richards, Calhoun and Segura didn't happen by accident.

 

The farm system is incredibly weak right in the depth department right now.  Outside of the Top 10 it's murky.  There's still some high-end talent around though.  Green, Sappington, Morin, Alvarez, Lindsey, Cowart, Cron, Grichuk, Yarbrough and Stamets all bring something exciting to the table. 

 

The Angels were middle of the road before promoting or trading all the guys mentioned. I believe they were ranked in the 15-18 range by most publications prior to the 2012 season. I believe that is probably about what a middle of the road system produces over a two year period, especially if you look at what Segura did in the minors and the second half of this season. 

 

How many of the guys you mentioned currently in the system are top 100 prospects? Even top 150? It's not just the depth that's the issue. It's top end talent as well.

 

Finally for all the busts the Angels produced when their system was on top they produced a lot of solid to very good to great players. Weaver, Kendrick, Santana, Napoli, Callaspo (went through the Angel's system), Saunders and more that I'm sure I'm forgetting. We had our busts for sure like Kotchman, MacPherson, Wood and Mathis but we did have a fruitful farm system in middle of the aughts.

[tennischmp]

The pitching is where it's lacking.

[YouthofToday]

The Angels were definitely better than they were given credit for in the past couple years. Coming up with Trout, Richards, Calhoun and Segura didn't happen by accident.

The farm system is incredibly weak right in the depth department right now. Outside of the Top 10 it's murky. There's still some high-end talent around though. Green, Sappington, Morin, Alvarez, Lindsey, Cowart, Cron, Grichuk, Yarbrough and Stamets all bring something exciting to the table.

What is your definition of "high-end talent"? Te possibility of accruing some MLB service time?

Cron is a AAAA guy without a position. Stamets has 0 power and hasn't even produced a wRC+ > 95 in a season yet. He hasn't been young for his level really yet. Morin is just a RP that every organization has plenty of. Sappington is about t turn 23, has little control and barely hit AA ball yet. Alvarez has terrible control.

Maybe 2 out of the bunch you listed are top 150 prospects. Maybe. This is the best we have? Would these "prospects" even rank in the Rays, Cardinals or Ramgers top 15 prospects?

[Docwaukee]

It's pretty much everything that has made this team ranked near the bottom

a lack of depth

not a lot of strong talent at AA or above - especially on the pitching side

not many high upside guys or can't miss types

 

Personally, there is more there than meets the eye and I think they will end up with some solid everyday position players from the current AA and high A crew.  A bunch of relievers are coming as well.  SP is TBD.  As they have focused primarily on pitching the last two years, their position player depth in A ball is pretty weak. 

 

They have decent OF, very good 2b, solid to good SS prospects.

 

They could make a small move up from the very bottom in 2014 or at least they should considering they didn't more than one or two guys that could be considered prospects in AAA.

[Inside Pitch]

Well, I just remembered when the Angels were considered a top farm system, producing the likes of Brandon Wood and Mathis

 

You're missing the point ...   Those guys were the guys that were raved about -- they didn't pan out, but Kendrys, Naps, Aybar did.   The Angels were several players deep at most positions..   Wood/Aybar, Mathis/Nap  Kendrick/Callaspo, Kotch/Morales..    AND they traded away a ton of guys....

[Inside Pitch]

What is your definition of "high-end talent"? Te possibility of accruing some MLB service time?

Cron is a AAAA guy without a position. Stamets has 0 power and hasn't even produced a wRC+ > 95 in a season yet. He hasn't been young for his level really yet. Morin is just a RP that every organization has plenty of. Sappington is about t turn 23, has little control and barely hit AA ball yet. Alvarez has terrible control.

Maybe 2 out of the bunch you listed are top 150 prospects. Maybe. This is the best we have? Would these "prospects" even rank in the Rays, Cardinals or Ramgers top 15 prospects?

 

 

The Angels simply need guys that show they can play..   I'd love for them to hjave guys making lists -- but if some undersized guy is putting up numbers and makes it to MLB, then I'm pleased.  The most recent drafts have focused on older safer guys -- you won't get a Ken Griffey Jr with that sort of a focus but you may find a Brian Downing or two.   Creating depth was a necessity.

[Angel Oracle]

That depth is beginning to show. The 2014 draft could then see a return to a balanced draft with position players and pitchers from both HS and college.

The past 3 drafts under Ric Wilson started to build that depth through increased emphasis on college players. That was one of two areas I had an issue with Bane. He rarely drafted college players.

[stormngt]

Even Romine is hitting better now.

Not much has gone wrong over the past 24 games, hottest team in MLB in that time.

 

That is because everything that could go wrong the first 110 did.  Now nothing much has gone wrong.

[Tank]

the young guys that have been promoted to the big club have done a serviceable job for the last month. don't know if that's what we can expect from them all the time, but glad to see them contribute during our best run of the year.

 

for all the high-priced talent we have, it's also good to see our oakland a's type players also contributing. can we win a ring with them? TBD.

[Angels Never Die]

The Angels were definitely better than they were given credit for in the past couple years.  Coming up with Trout, Richards, Calhoun and Segura didn't happen by accident.

 

The farm system is incredibly weak right in the depth department right now.  Outside of the Top 10 it's murky.  There's still some high-end talent around though.  Green, Sappington, Morin, Alvarez, Lindsey, Cowart, Cron, Grichuk, Yarbrough and Stamets all bring something exciting to the table. 

 

High end?

[nate]

There is no myth.  We have a dreadful farm system.

[Docwaukee]

btw, providing and overall rank to the various farm systems seems kinda silly and impractical. 

 

major league teams scout players - not whole farm systems.  when we make a trade, the other teams are going to have a good idea if the halos have a player or two they may want, how they grade them and the halos know how they grade their own.  All teams are off on tons of players in both directions all the time.  There could be several players currently in the halos org that end up solid everyday players or others that some teams covet that the halos don't.  Or both.   Kotchman was the halos top ranked prospect in 2002, 2004, 2005 and Brandon wood in 2006-2008 yet during that time, the halos had a bunch of guys come in a produce.

 

Just because a farm system is ranked low doesn't mean it can produce quality players. 

[Second Base]

That's my fault guys, I should've clarified.  By high-end talent, I'm identifying players that I believe will be at least league average starters or better.  

 

Hunter Green, young, tall projectable lefty.  What's not to like?

Mark Sappington, workhorse type of starter with a two pitch combo that could make him a #2/3 SP at best and at least a #4/5 SP.

Mike Morin, quality late inning reliever with command of two "plus" pitches.  How many of those do the Angels have?

R.J. Alvarez, bringing high 90's gas and razor sharp slider.

Taylor Lindsey, a young, lefty-swinging middle infielder with solid power and better than average discipline all of a sudden. 

Kaleb Cowart, switch hitting 3B that should be among the Top 5/10 in the game in the next 5 years. 

C.J. Cron, elite power combined with the ability to make consistent contact makes him a legitimate threat. 

Randal Grichuk, does a bit of everything, but at the end of the day is still a power hitting corner OF.  Who doesn't love those?

Alex Yarbrough, a switch hitting middle infielder with a great batting average, above average power and won't need much time in the minors. 

Eric Stamets, should challenge Andrelton Simmons as the best defensive SS once he's promoted. Makes contact and can flat run. 

 

When you lay it out like that, you see that while the Angels system won't rank high, it isn't devoid of players that are going to carve out everyday roles in the next few years. 

[Angel Oracle]

Will Stamets eventually force Rondon to another position?

[Second Base]

Way too far off in the future for that sort of speculation.  Stamets has been consistently productive so far in A ball and High A.  Next season should really show us what he's made of, whether or not he'll hit enough to be a productive everyday player or more of a defensive specialist that plays a premium position well enough to swallow a lack of offensive production.  I think he'll hit just enough (.250/.320 20 SB), but we won't know for sure or even have a reasonable idea until next season. 

 

As far as Rondon goes, he's all projection at this point.  Good athletic frame, showed a knack for the position in Rookie Ball, seems to be a favorite among coaches and personnel in the system.  But at minimum, he's still 2 years away from the pros, more likely 3-4.  He's still only 19 years old.