Angels release Ryan Madson

[Inside Pitch]

It should come a no surprise that the last four years' bullpens have been the four worst statistically of any in the MS era. Last years was disappointing but mildly understandable for a first year GM that had already spent a ton of money in other areas.

To bring a similar situation for the second year in a row is a massive failure.

MS teams that have been successful play and win a lot of close games and are heavily reliant upon the bullpen to be very good. It's the gm's job to know his manager's strengths and weaknesses and put the types of players on the field that maximize the former and minimize the latter.

the madson signing was a nice low risk high reward move.......for a team that already had a strong pen. The problem was that they really really needed him to be a big part of the team.

they need a captain of the bullpen. they have had none for 4 years now. someone who is very very good to get the last 3-4 outs. not just a good pitcher for the end of games, but an actual closer.

don't get me wrong, I am a big fan of advanced metrics, but the one place I think that most metrics tend to undervalue is for the back end of the bullpen. WPA does a pretty good job imo and it needs to be given the proper attention.

The halos total wpa the last three seasons? -2.96

Not only are the last 9 outs paramount, but putting the team in a position to come back and steal a win is super big.

I get that it's not the sabermetric way to spend a ton of money on the back end of a pen, and I like what the last few drafts have done with a heavy focus on pitching and in particular bullpen depth, but if this team is going to have any chance to win the next two to three years then you have to bridge the game and get some arms for late in the game.

Over spending on FA offense isn't a great idea, but it compunds the stupidity if you aren't going to make those potential leads hold up. And the theory of spending a ton of money on a pen being a bad thing is inconsistent if you go out and blow wads of cash in other areas.

 

 

Record in 1 run games.... 

 

2012 -- 18-18

2013 -- 14-22

 

Yes, the pen's volatility has killed this team.

[Marsaka]

Who cares? It has zero impact and again, extended DL trips are paid via insurance so it's even less an issue. 

 

what makes u think he was insured?  If there's a company stupid enough to insure him in the first place then it's likely his insurance rates were through the roof anyways.

[AngelsFaninGA]

I don't get how someone can say this debacle has no impact. We signed this guy to be one of the key parts of our bullpen, and he never pitched a game. Because of that, we're forced to throw guys like Gutierrez and Stange out there in close games and our bullpen is a complete mess. I would say that's an impact. 

[Stradling]

He was probably thinking in a pinch if Madsen wasn't healthy Downs, Frieri and Burnet would be enough.

[yk9001]

what makes u think he was insured?  If there's a company stupid enough to insure him in the first place then it's likely his insurance rates were through the roof anyways.

 

Agreed.  I think message board posters know less about the insurance, or SELF INSURANCE of major league contracts, than anything else they spout off about.

[nate]

Teams only insure large contracts.  There is no way Madson and his 3.5 million were insured.

[xboom28x]

Did Madson even make the team photo? We should retire his jersey number.

 

Wait, was he ever assigned one?

[shellback]

insurance is a legal protection racket  (WGAF)

[shellback]

Take a look at the free agent class of relief pitchers last year.

 

Rafael Soriano: $28M, 46.1IP, 2.91 ERA

Jonathan Broxton (DL): $21M, 27IP, 4.33 ERA

Jeremy Affeldt (DL): $18M, 33.1IP, 3.51 ERA

Mike Adams (DL): $12M, 25IP, 3.96 ERA (shoulder surgery)

Kyuji Fujikawa (DL); $9M, 12IP, 5.25 ERA (TJ surgery)

Sean Burnett (DL): $8M, 9.2IP, 0.93 ERA (elbow surgery)

 

So 5 out of the 6 top paid free agent relief pitchers are currently on the DL. None of those 5 have come close to earning their contracts falling short by either effectiveness or innings pitched. Soriano has pitched well but at $14M per season he's no bargain for his production. His K/9 is way down to 6.8 which doesn't bode well for next year either.

 

Good luck trying to buy a pen. The teams with the best pens built them from the farm or supplemented them by picking up "projects" and getting big production from them. Sometimes both. The sack of shit we have impersonating a pitching coach could try for 30 years without having the success of a Maddux, Young, Hickey, Price, Duncan etc. Tampa quickly saw that they had a lemon and let him go after one season. We're stuck with him for 7 years now. It might be hard to find a more apt name for a pitching coach than "Butcher". Why does a team that aspires to be the best have to settle for someone's "good buddy" with no track record (and now a terrible 8 year track record)?

 

Would any of the arms that Dipoto traded really be helping this pen right now? Pena (5.19 BB/9 in AA), Hellweg (13BB, 3k's in 10.2 IP with the Brewers) or Roach (5.24 K/9 in AA)? I doubt it. Would Chatwood be anything other than the erratic walk/hit machine he was with the Angels? He had almost as many walks (71) as strikeouts (74) with us. A strikeout rate of 4.69 K/9? Someone taught him how to pitch.

 

This problem wasn't created in a short time (and certainly not in the less than 2 years of the Dipoto GM) and it won't be fixed in a short time. Drafting almost exclusively pitchers in a pitching heavy draft seems smart and a good start. Bringing in pitching coaches with a long track record of success handling young pitching should be the next step. It's not as easy or quick as opening the checkbook and purchasing one or two decrepit old arms on the free agent market.

 

this. X1G

the angels continued pitching problems can't be chalked up to injuries, bad luck, signing dogs, the stars in misalignment, aliens or anything else over the last 4 yrs. the common thread in the whole mess is the field manager/ coaching staff.

i'm getting the sense the angels are the new siberia of mlb due to these guys.

[T.G.]

It's funny that some people think that $3.5 million isn't a lot of money.  What has the world come to?  It's all relative, but at the end of the day - $3.5 million is a ton of money in my book.

[mp170.6]

It's funny that some people think that $3.5 million isn't a lot of money.  What has the world come to?  It's all relative, but at the end of the day - $3.5 million is a ton of money in my book.

 

What's worse is that the overwhelming majority of HEALTHY relievers make a lot less than $3.5 million. 

 

It's irrelevant what Madson accomplished in the past.  He was 100% disabled as far as baseball goes when the deal was signed. 

[yk9001]

What's worse is that the overwhelming majority of HEALTHY relievers make a lot less than $3.5 million. 

 

It's irrelevant what Madson accomplished in the past.  He was 100% disabled as far as baseball goes when the deal was signed. 

 

Remember, the whole deal was free because of insurance.  And self insurance.  And Arte switching accounts.

[Scott34]

Remember when they told us that he'd be ready on opening day?

[mtangelsfan]

You can let off now yk, he's already been banned.  No need to instigate anymore.

[mp170.6]

You can let off now yk, he's already been banned.  No need to instigate anymore.

 

I thought he was cornfielded temporarily?

[mtangelsfan]

Bannings are usually not for good. 

 

Heck, just ask Justin.

[Chuck]

Bannings are usually not for good. 

 

Heck, just ask Justin.

 

 

Well in his case, he was never "allowed" back in. He just created new accounts on the old system and hid behind a proxy server. He was truly banned, as was his IP. 

 

LT will be back in 14 days unless he decides not come back after the latest suspension. Which I'm sure most of you will be pleased to hear. 

 

But I digress. Back to Ryan Madson talk. 

[yk9001]

If Dipoto were a gambler, his nickname would be The Cooler.

[mp170.6]

Bannings are usually not for good. 

 

Heck, just ask Justin.

 

Thanks for the chuckle.  I forgot about Justin and his antics. 

[mp170.6]

A 2-week ban is kinda harsh.

 

A-Rod = 211 games

Lifetime = 14 days

 

That's not harsh.

[YouthofToday]

What did LT do?

[Homebrewer]

What did LT do?

The same magic words that get managers and players tossed.

[nate]

Strad I am sure it wasn't just this thread.  He has been going nuts the last week with his typical schtick.  I definitely think he deserved it.

[Tyler]

I am as frustrated by LT as anyone, but this wasn't a reason to ban him, even if for only 14 days. So he called yk a prick, big deal. If that is reason enough then Toby Z and myself should both be given a time out.

 

Do you have the history lifetime does?

[tdawg87]

Do you have the history lifetime does?

 

Stradling once sent me a PM calling me fat.