Thanks Dipoto

[stormngt]

We will never know the argument is null and void. Just that he didn't do squat sorry he traded a crappy 3rd baseman and Downs wahoo

 

 

Just curious, how do you know he didn't do squat?  How do you know he listen to offers and just didn't have good trading partners?  Not making a trade didn't mean  you didn't try to make a trade.

[YouthofToday]

Dipoto has not been terrible. Blaming him for this catostophy might feel good but isn't correct.

Granted, he hasn't been perfect. However, outside of the Marmol near-trade I like the apparent process he makes decisions from. Hamilton, Pujols and the Greinke decisions I'm convinced were ownership driven.

Blanton hasn't worked out. It was only $15 million over 2 years. Hardly a crushing sunk cost. At the time it made sense. He looked good with the Dosgers last year.

[Lifetime]

Blaming Arte for Pujols, Hamilton and Greinke might feel good but isn't correct. 

[full circle]

Blaming Arte for Pujols, Hamilton and Greinke might feel good but isn't correct. 

Link?

[Docwaukee]

It the GM's job to advise the owner where to spend his money.  I have no doubt that Dipoto fully supported the Hamilton signing and the Greinke trade. 

 

Although I do put some blame on Dipoto for Josh, I put more of that on the actual player. 

[full circle]

I have doubt that Dipoto fully supported the Hamilton signing.  Based on what was reported, it really seemed like Hamilton was Arte going off on his own to go get him, he and his wife flying to his house to woo him and what not.  I would bet money Hamilton was not Dipoto's idea, though he probably didn't outright advise against it to Arte.    

[Lifetime]

If you're the GM pushing for a big name FA, and you want to seal the deal, or at the very least put the organization in the best possible light with the FA, don't you think it's a prudent strategy to have the owner of the team, the highest ranking executive in the company to add his personal touch to the process and present his sales pitch? Involving the owner in such a way, no matter who's idea it was, is smart negotiation tactics. 

 

That's one long sentence right there... 

[tomsred]

I have doubt that Dipoto fully supported the Hamilton signing.  Based on what was reported, it really seemed like Hamilton was Arte going off on his own to go get him, he and his wife flying to his house to woo him and what not.  I would bet money Hamilton was not Dipoto's idea, though he probably didn't outright advise against it to Arte.    

Hamilton may not have been Jerry's initial idea, but a baseball GM should have full authority (and be the last authority) on baseball decisions.  If he thought it would be harmful (the Hamilton signing), he should have stopped the transaction.  If he doesn't have full authority and responsibility, then he and Arte may not be on the same page.  The way I remember it, Arte did say the final responsibility for all baseball personnel decisions was with Jerry.

 

In the end, no one outside the organization really knows who has responsibility for what in this organization.  It's a private business, not a public corporation.

[Lifetime]

By the way, Dipoto met with Hamilton's people at the winter meetings 

[Docwaukee]

I have doubt that Dipoto fully supported the Hamilton signing.  Based on what was reported, it really seemed like Hamilton was Arte going off on his own to go get him, he and his wife flying to his house to woo him and what not.  I would bet money Hamilton was not Dipoto's idea, though he probably didn't outright advise against it to Arte.    

 

he may not have fully supported it I agree, but I would imagine that he was concerned about a drop in production in years 4 and 5 and not a catastrophic disaster in year 1. 

 

perhaps JD was pretty luke warm on the idea and that fact is the main reason he still has a job. Because the org knows that JD would have preferred to go in a different direction so they don't blame him as much. 

[red321]

So, Grienke is now Arte's as well? Nice. Revisionist history rocks.

 

I put the blame squarely on Dipoto for Pujols and Hamilton. If he didn't drive the decision, then he sure as hell didn't convince the owner not to do it...and if the owner can walk all over him like that he's the wrong guy for the job.

[tomsred]

If you're the GM pushing for a big name FA, and you want to seal the deal, or at the very least put the organization in the best possible light with the FA, don't you think it's a prudent strategy to have the owner of the team, the highest ranking executive in the company to add his personal touch to the process and present his sales pitch? Involving the owner in such a way, no matter who's idea it was, is smart negotiation tactics. 

 

That's one long sentence right there... 

It is smart negotiation tactics.  A player negotiating a $100M+ contract better have access, and should want to talk to all of the top executives in the organization (plus the manager of the team), and vice versa.  Arte certainly should have access, and personal contact to deals like Hamilton, Pujols, Wilson, Weaver signed.  As Arte has pointed out, they represent business partners.  If Jerry thinks Arte is getting a bad deal, he needs to stick up his hand and say "stop."  That's his job, and that's what he is paid to do, among other things.

[Mark68]

It is smart negotiation tactics.  A player negotiating a $100M+ contract better have access, and should want to talk to all of the top executives in the organization (plus the manager of the team), and vice versa.  Arte certainly should have access, and personal contact to deals like Hamilton, Pujols, Wilson, Weaver signed.  As Arte has pointed out, they represent business partners.  If Jerry thinks Arte is getting a bad deal, he needs to stick up his hand and say "stop."  That's his job, and that's what he is paid to do, among other things.

However, sticking out his hand and saying "stop" will not necessarily stop the ownership from doing what it wants to do anyway.

 

See Jones, Jerry.

[kevinb]

Damn didnt know Arte was the GM now. All the terrible moves like Grienke, Hamilton and Pujols is now Artes fault. I'm waiting to hear it was Arte who wanted Blanton and Marmol. With an owner like that what is Dipoto doing here.

I blame the GM for what he brings in at the time of his tenure. Just like I blamed Reagins for who he got in his tenure and Stoneman etc. unless the owner comes out and says it was he who wanted such player and since you can't fire the owner. All personnel decisions good or bad rest on the GMs shoulders it's in his job title.

[kevinb]

However, sticking out his hand and saying "stop" will not necessarily stop the ownership from doing what it wants to do anyway.

See Jones, Jerry.

Except Jerry Jones is the GM and owner of the team. Two completely different situations. Jerry even talks bout how he makes final personnel decisions.

[Tyler]

GM's identify the talent, Arte writes the checks. Dipoto F'd up two years in a row now. Reagins really set this organization back.

[Inside Pitch]

I have doubt that Dipoto fully supported the Hamilton signing.  Based on what was reported, it really seemed like Hamilton was Arte going off on his own to go get him, he and his wife flying to his house to woo him and what not.  I would bet money Hamilton was not Dipoto's idea, though he probably didn't outright advise against it to Arte.    

 

 

I have a hard time with any GM that is unwilling to stand up to ownership and tell them when his vision of the team and ownership's aren't on the same page.   Say what you will about Cashman, he's always been very open whenever he's been overruled.  If Jerry didn't support those moves and was willing to let his reputation be dragged down by ownership's decisions then it's on him.  Again, we know how overbearing Tony Tavares was and we all saw how Bill Stoneman handled him.

 

Signing two guys who were unable to throw at the time they were signed to fix a long running problem was IMO about as piss poor a decision as any made in Anaheim in ages - and that completely falls on Dipoto.  Because of the decisions made with the SP, the bullpen absolutely needed to be addressed. Signing those two, hoping they would come out of surgery okay and calling it mission accomplished was just ignorant.

 

 

Ultimately this team was done in by the organizations lack of depth and outside of the pen, you can't really put that on any one person.

[stormngt]

I'll post this here too...

 

How is it Jerry Dipoto's fault that:

 

Hamilton is mired in prolonged slump.

 

Madson/Burnett non-factors due to injuries.

 

Pujols played on one leg and is out for the final two months.

 

Vargas blood clot.

 

Hanson had death in family, injuries.

 

Weaver broken elbow.

 

Peter Bourjos injured, TWICE in the midst of having a great season. 

 

Joe Blanton has been the worst he has been by far at any time during his career. 

 

Mike Scioscia has made some of the worst calls from the dugout that I've seen in a long time. 

 

Is Jerry Dipoto perfect? Nope. But you can't fault him for trying to put an amazing team together. Where he could have done a better job is...

 

Kept Santana, not signed Joe Blanton.

 

Signed a sure thing closer like Rafael Soriano, then signed Madson for insurance if anything else. 

 

Not signed Josh Hamilton, kept Torii Hunter for two years. Kole Calhoun as Torii's insurance.

 

But yeah, it's easy to second guess the GM. We were all excited about Josh Hamilton. Most thought Blanton would post a 4.50 ERA and give us some quality starts, and we ALL thought Madson would be back by May the latest. Most were happy to see Santana go as well.

 

 

What bonehead dugout decisions did Sosh make?

 

If all that you mentioned couldn't be blamed on Dipoto, couldn't you say the same about Scioscia?

[T.G.]

I don't think it's a huge leap to believe that the decision to sign Albert Pujols was driven by Arte Moreno... and here's your link: http://articles.latimes.com/2011/dec/10/sports/la-sp-1211-shaikin-angels-20111211

 

The boss was calling. John Carpino, the Angels' president, picked up.

Arte Moreno's question: What would you think about us signing Albert Pujols?

 

This was a few days before Thanksgiving. Carpino caught his breath, then asked Moreno for a couple of hours to run the numbers. The Angels never had signed a guy for $100 million. Pujols would cost more than twice as much.

 

"No," Moreno said. "What do you think our fans would think?"

 

That's a no-brainer. The Angels were in it to win it.

 

"I'm a marketing guy," Moreno said Saturday, after the Angels unwrapped Pujols before a crowd estimated at 4,200 at Angel Stadium. "I just thought, 'What does it mean to our fans to bring a player of this caliber here?'

 

"That's when all of a sudden, all of your objectivity and budgets and everything go out the window, and you start saying, 'Can you really get this player?' "

[Lifetime]

It's still a reach. Before Moreno starts to weigh pros and cons and ask about money etc. with his partner, he is presented with the idea from the GM. At that point there has already been some discussions between the two parties.

 

What in that article indicates this was Arte's idea and not the GM. 

[T.G.]

I don't know why I'm even going to bother with this, but what the heck Lifetime... I'll humor you.

 

If you're expecting a direct quote from Arte Moreno saying "signing Albert Pujols was my idea" - I can't provide that.  Never-the-less, it's my opinion and the opinion of a great many Angel fans that it's possible to come to that conclusion based on the article above and others like it.  You can't prove that it wasn't his decision any more than we can prove that it was.  Again, you think it's a reach, I don't.

 

So let's agree to disagree and save the rest of the board from the usual back and forth crap.  I really don't care if you think it was Dipoto's call or not and I don't feel compelled to try and change your mind.  No hard feelings.

 

For the record - I was very happy the Angels signed Albert Pujols regardless of who made the decision. Things just haven't worked out the way I hoped or expected thus far. 

[Lifetime]

If you want to save the board "the usual back and forth crap" as you put it, how about you start with not making that kind of snarky retort (you know the usual back and forth crap you mentioned) . I don't give a rats arse if you want to go back and forth or discuss this further. If you don't care to, don't. No skin off my nose. You made a comment, I rebutted. If you want to leave it there, don't respond back. It's as simple as that. 

[Scott34]

Fact: Moreno flew to Texas to pitch the Angels to Hamilton and presented him the offer over dinner. (Not involved??)

Fact: Moreno's phone call to Pujols & Wife convinced them to sign. Albert himself has said that.

Some folks are in denial.

[Lifetime]

No one has made any suggestion that Moreno wasn't involved scott. 

[nate]

Being a bit pedantic, aren't you Lifetime?