The Official 2024-2025 Offseason Thread

[Dave Saltzer]

Please post all trade ideas, FA signings, and other thoughts that you have for the Angels this offseason here.

[Dave Saltzer]

So, I came up with 2 interesting trade ideas that appear to fit Arte's goals, his claims to be willing to increase payroll, and make us instant contenders in 2025.

Trade Idea #1: Angels trade Reid Detmers for Nolan Arenado. 

 

Why the Angels Would Do It: he's owed something like $24 million/year for 4 years. While he has a full no-trade clause, the Cards are entering a full rebuild era and want to cut payroll. Arenado is still a gold glove 3B. While his bat has declined since his peak, it would be a big improvement for us. He would provide that playoff and postseason experience to help mentor our younger players on how to prepare for an even longer season (including the postseason) and how to dig deeper to get more out of themselves. 

No more Rendon at 3B.

 

Why Arenado Would Waive his No Trade Clause:  Who wants to go through a multi-year rebuild? He is stuck under contract. Maybe he can exact a bit, such as a couple of years to his deal. He grew up in the OC, his mom misses him terribly (my friend who taught him is still close with the parents, says mom always says she wants her boy home), and he still has a lot of friends here. We are much closer to the end of our rebuild than the Cards are to the end of theirs.  He gets the same money, and can play in front of friends and family. 

 

Why the Cardinals Would Do It: They have a reputation for fixing pitchers. Detmers is an ace who mentally needs a change of scenery. I still believe he has another no hitter in him. They are developing a young pitching nucleus and can either extend him or trade him for a haul in a year or two. 

Apparently, Detmers' dad played in the Cardinals system, and that his family lives near there. So, it would be a homecoming for him too! 

 

Trade idea #2: Angels trade Tyler Anderson and Taylor Ward to the Blue Jay's for Vlad Guerrero, Jr. and Alek Manoah (if Manoah is included, we would add a prospect). 

 

Why the Angels Would Do It: Vlad is a great hitter and the son of his favorite player, maybe other than Trout. Vlad becomes our DH, as he is defensively limited, although he could get 30-40 games in the field when Trout or others need a day off. We would have a good chance of signing him long-term.

 

Manoah is a wild card. No one knows if he can be fixed or not. If he can be fixed, he becomes our ace. If he can't, he can be cut.

 

I would do the deal just for Vlad if the Jays won't include Manoah. 

 

Why the Blue Jays Would Do It: They need outfield help, big-time. Ward becomes their best OF hitter. Vlad, Jr. only has 1 year left before he leaves as a FA. next year, a QO will cost $24ish million. There's a good chance that they won't offer him a QO, so they may not get anything for him. They have a financial crunch with Bichette and Vlad. While Bichette had a horrible year, if he can return to form, he could be more valuable to keep long-term than Vlad. It is muchj easier to replace offense at 1B over SS, so if Bichette returns to form (I hope he does), then the Jays are far more likely to try and sign him long-term over Vlad. They get further relief by dumping Manoah, although I'd do the deal if they won't include Manoah. 

New Angels Lineup After the Trades:

1. Rengifo (2B)

2. Schanuel (1B)

3. Trout (LF)

4. Vlad, Jr. (DH)

5. Arenado (3B)

6. Adell (RF)

7. O'Hoppe (C)

8. Moniak (CF)

9. Neto (SS)

 

New Angels Rotation:

1. Manoah

2. Soriano

3. Dana

4. Canning

5. Kochanowicz

 

If we don't land Manoah, move everyone up one and add Silseth. 

 

What I love most about these 2 trades and this new lineup is that there are NO ABs for Rendon. Maybe 1-3 pinch hits. That means, he can't disappear on the IL for months. He will have to go through all the workouts, all the batting practices, etc. that he won't want to do, especially for 1-4 ABs a week.

 

So, after we make these trades, we have a frank, honest conversation about him going out there day after day, sitting on the bench, being the HR hat delivery guy. Preferably, we should have this guy with a man in a dark T-shirt and suit (no tie) cracking walnuts in his bare hands (or with 2 Russians, one with lots of chest hair in a track suit and his bald side kick with lots of scars dressed in the T-shirt and suit, no tie). We also explain to Rendon that all he will hear everyday is the sound of booing from the fans who will never forget what a failure he is. 

 

Rendon quickly announces his retirement and accepts a $10 million/year deal for the next 2 years as a "Special Assistant" to Perry and he will be focusing on nothing specific, but he will approach the the job like he approached every At-Bat. 

 

So, after he quickly accepts the job, we save a lot of money. We sign a couple of utility depth pieces (a depth OFer, unless we have the budget to sign someone who can play CF and hits better than Moniak, a MIF utility player, a corner MIFer, and a bullpen arm or two).

 

All of this can be done without greatly increasing the budget. 

 

So, what do you think of my ideas? 

 

[Ochocinco!]

I like the creativity, I just don’t see the Blue Jays trading Vladdy for just Taylor Ward and 1 season of TA. They could do better. 
 

That Arenado deal is actually something that’s very realistic. STL wants to shed payroll and are open about it. The FA class is not great besides Soto and Burnes so I think Perry is going to have to get creative this off-season to make this ball club better. 3B upgrade is a must, Rendon is nothing but a bench player that will give you 50-60 games if that. 
 

**I also don’t think it’s fair for us to assume that Dana will be ready opening day for a starting position. He is still so young, while he showed flashes during his first start. He got absolutely whacked in the next two. He needs more time and needs to work on arm slot consistency. Give him a ST invite but start year in AA or AAA.

[Dave Saltzer]

You are right. It would take more to pry Vlad, Jr. Maybe add Sandoval as well to the deal. 

[Dave Saltzer]

The problem I see is that the FA market at each position is dominated by a couple of top players who will cost a ton with an overpay to come play for us. 

 

Sure Soto would be nice, but long-term he does block Trout's eventual move to LF. So, I'm not too keen on chasing Soto, but it is Arte's money. And no, it would not be ironic to land Soto after losing Ohtani, as we did offer Ohtani a very high deal, and the Dodgers just threw another $100 million+ at him. 

 

If you want to discuss a Soto deal, I think the minimum to land him for a team will be 12/$540 million ($45 million AAV). But that would eat up Arte's entire budget, leaving us with no depth, a glaring hole at 3B,holes in the bullpen, etc. 

[Dgar24]

I think fixing third base is the upgrade that improves this team more than any position we could fix. In reading Arte and Perry’s end of season comments, they are already prepping Rendon for a backup infielder or release. 
Yesterday I glanced at Arenado’s contract. There is deferred money, Colorado also paying some money, makes this very entertaining. I actually think we could go bigger and include some additional players. I have no problem giving up Detmer’s for this maybe we get some minor league returns as well.
My next add continuing with defensive improvements would be Kim from San Diego, I know he’s coming off surgery but this guy is only 28, is gold glove anywhere on the infield, hits decent , steals bags. He’s solid. Won’t break the bank. These two moves add that depth we haven’t had in years. It would allow Moore to move to outfield or stay at second with no rush. Add a starter and I can see a 500 club. Of course Mike Trout has to be health and productive .

 

 

Edited Sunday at 12:49 PM by Dgar24

[tdawg87]

I usually take IP's ideas and run with them because he is smart baseball man and I am mentally retarded. So we gotta get some 2 WAR guys.

Sign Gleyber Torres. Huge bounce back candidate and shouldn't cost a ridiculous amount. In fact he may want a shorter deal to build up his value so he can get a bigger payday in 2026/27. He'll be 29 in 2026. Torres > Drury. Edge Lowell. Gross etc...

Extend Rengifo. He's pretty much the exact type of guy we need. I think he can be extended for a reasonable contract, making it still possible to trade him if needed. 

Sign Urshela. Literally a warm body at this point but still better than the crap we've been getting off the bench. 

Sign Paul DeJong. Can cover shortstop and 3rd if needed (it will be needed). He has some experience at 2B but not recently. Probably could play 1st as well if needed, but that's just an assumption on my part. 

Sign Ha-Seong Kim IF he declines mutual option. Go into 2025 with expectations that he will be the 3rd baseman (that's where he played in Korea) but can also play SS when needed. 

See what Goldschmidt wants. He's clearly at the end of his rope but could at least spell 1B if Schanuel isn't sticking. Also a veteran who could help mentor Schanuel. 

Michael Conforto. He's Ward 2.0 but provides depth and could replace Ward if he gets traded.

Teoscar Hernandez only if they are trading Ward. 

Pitching? Meh. 

[Redondo]

I like some of these ideas

But I think it's going to be wash, rinse and repeat

No big moves and middle type signings

Same old MO

[Stradling]

1 hour ago, Redondo said:

I like some of these ideas

But I think it's going to be wash, rinse and repeat

No big moves and middle type signings

Same old MO

I don’t think any of those, minus Vlad, are big moves. 

[DMVol]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

I don’t think any of those, minus Vlad, are big moves. 

I doubt we’re going to see any big moves. More like Renfroe, Anderson, Urshela and Drury two years ago. The whole Diamond thing makes me think, if Arte is willing, Perry can pick up some good value by taking on salary. 

[Angels 1961]

Nobody is taking Anderson and his 13 mill for next year. Arrenado not going to come to a rebuilding Angel team.

[Stradling]

52 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Nobody is taking Anderson and his 13 mill for next year.

That’s incredibly stupid to say. Of course someone would take Anderson. Someone gave Wacha $16 million. Someone gave Giolito 2 years and $38 million coming off of his worst season. Maeda got $24 million over two years at 36 years old returning from injury.  So yea, he’s absolutely tradeable. Now if you want to argue what you can get for him that’s fine but to pretend his contract is unmovable is just being ignorant. 

[DMVol]

3 minutes ago, Stradling said:

That’s incredibly stupid to say. Of course someone would take Anderson. Someone gave Wacha $16 million. Someone gave Giolito 2 years and $38 million coming off of his worst season. Maeda got $24 million over two years at 36 years old returning from injury.  So yea, he’s absolutely tradeable. Now if you want to argue what you can get for him that’s fine but to pretend his contract is unmovable is just being ignorant. 

I don’t disagree…but I’m not sure the return would be enough that I’d consider trading him. He was very good for the first 2/3ths of the season. I tend to think he’s a better piece for us, all things considered (including financially), than what we’d get in a trade. If we’re struggling at the trade deadline and he’s pitched like this year, he’d be a good piece to trade, even if the return isn’t what we thought it might be this year. 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, DMVol said:

I don’t disagree…but I’m not sure the return would be enough that I’d consider trading him. He was very good for the first 2/3ths of the season. I tend to think he’s a better piece for us, all things considered (including financially), than what we’d get in a trade. If we’re struggling at the trade deadline and he’s pitched like this year, he’d be a good piece to trade, even if the return isn’t what we thought it might be this year. 

I’d only trade him if the team felt they could use the money better moving forward. If moving his money makes it so they can sign a younger player to a longer deal then I’d move him. It felt like Arte basically said moves for 2025 would have 2026 in mind as well. 

[greginpsca]

They need to trade Anderson, Ward, and Rengifo for prospects that can fit holes. Get younger. Get guys that can play great defense and have speed. No more overpriced, aging veterans. That is something this org has done since it's inception. Getting older veterans that that come here to put a headstone on their career. 

[totdprods]

I think Detmers going to St. Louis especially (Cincy too) makes so much sense. Grew up a Cards fan, from the area, dad was in their system. 

I’m a little leery of Arenado though. He’s still productive but has been declining and dropped to a league average bat the last two seasons, and even with some deferred money and Colorado paying some, there’s still a little too much money and years there for us to add to payroll/3B. I’m not against it, but I worry it could clog up payroll more than expected, and if he goes into an Anaheim tailspin like older players do so often here, now we’re paying two 3B a ton of money for no results.

I want this team to keep getting younger and cheaper, even if it comes with more risk. Competing isn’t in the cards or the expectation for 2025, building a better team beyond that is.

St. Louis has several young bats that might need a change of scenery like Detmers. Jordan Walker, Alec Burleson. Brendan Donovan isn’t young, but productive and useful. But I would go after Nolan Gorman. He can play 2B and 3B so he gives us flexibility there. He and Detmers are basically the same age, have the same club-control timeline, have similar prospect pedigree, have both had their careers start strong and slowly regress. With Arenado at 3B and Wetherholt in the system now, Gorman’s time could be limited in St. Louis. Not really part of this deal, but overall, there’s enough ’bad’ money and a need to reduce payroll that trying to get Matz, Mikolas, Lynn or Gibson to shore up the back of the rotation (and making it easier to dump Canning) might be an option too.

Cincy is also close to that area, and they have a definite need for more young pitching and a glut of infielders. Ideally they’d be able to get one of the younger guys, Encarnación-Strand, Steer, Marte, probably not McClain, or also get Candelario as a salary-dump throw-in.

There’s a lot of fits with those two clubs there, so much so it’s hard to pinpoint exactly what the best/most realistic return without knowing what other moves are in the works.

[BTH]

Arenado isn’t waiving his NTC and Arte isn’t gonna want to take on a 3rd large salary or someone with deferred money owed.

Trading for one year of Vlad Jr is a waste of resources. Just sign him in free agency next year.

[BTH]

6 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

I usually take IP's ideas and run with them because he is smart baseball man and I am mentally retarded. So we gotta get some 2 WAR guys.

Sign Gleyber Torres. Huge bounce back candidate and shouldn't cost a ridiculous amount. In fact he may want a shorter deal to build up his value so he can get a bigger payday in 2026/27. He'll be 29 in 2026. Torres > Drury. Edge Lowell. Gross etc...

Extend Rengifo. He's pretty much the exact type of guy we need. I think he can be extended for a reasonable contract, making it still possible to trade him if needed. 

Sign Urshela. Literally a warm body at this point but still better than the crap we've been getting off the bench. 

Sign Paul DeJong. Can cover shortstop and 3rd if needed (it will be needed). He has some experience at 2B but not recently. Probably could play 1st as well if needed, but that's just an assumption on my part. 

Sign Ha-Seong Kim IF he declines mutual option. Go into 2025 with expectations that he will be the 3rd baseman (that's where he played in Korea) but can also play SS when needed. 

See what Goldschmidt wants. He's clearly at the end of his rope but could at least spell 1B if Schanuel isn't sticking. Also a veteran who could help mentor Schanuel. 

Michael Conforto. He's Ward 2.0 but provides depth and could replace Ward if he gets traded.

Teoscar Hernandez only if they are trading Ward. 

Pitching? Meh. 

Are you suggesting doing all of that?

I like all the names. Getting 3-4 of those guys would be great.

FWIW, Goldschmidt and Schanuel worked out together last offseason. So some familiarity there already.

[BTH]

47 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I’d only trade him if the team felt they could use the money better moving forward. If moving his money makes it so they can sign a younger player to a longer deal then I’d move him. It felt like Arte basically said moves for 2025 would have 2026 in mind as well. 

I’d trade Anderson because I think he’s due for some regression and I think they can utilize that money better  elsewhere.

Kochanowicz, for example, can likely provide similar production as Anderson will, except at league minimum. Then you can use that $13M towards a #2/3 SP that signs for $20M+ or whatever.

[Dave Saltzer]

I think the key here is that our offseason has to focus a lot on trades, not FAs. We won't attract top end FAs until we show that we are competitive. To get competitive, we will need to make trades. We can get a lot more in trades if we take on some salary. The fallout on the TV deal will affect many teams, and many will need to shed payroll. There are opportunities to be had. 

 

 

[BTH]

22 minutes ago, totdprods said:

 

I think Detmers going to St. Louis especially (Cincy too) makes so much sense.

 

I think whether they trade Detmers comes down to if they believe they can fix him or not.

If they don’t, then they trade him. If they think they can, they’ll stick with him because is upside is big.

But I don’t know what they think.

Edited Sunday at 07:48 PM by BTH

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, BTH said:

I’d trade Anderson because I think he’s due for some regression and I think they can utilize that money better  elsewhere.

Kochanowicz, for example, can likely provide similar production as Anderson will, except at league minimum. Then you can use that $13M towards a #2/3 SP that signs for $20M+ or whatever.

The problem you continue to ignore is you need at least ten starting pitchers, preferably 12. 

[BTH]

36 minutes ago, Stradling said:

The problem you continue to ignore is you need at least ten starting pitchers, preferably 12. 

The idea is to trade Anderson and then ise that money towards replacing him with a better pitcher. So you’d still have the same amount of pitchers. It’s not like you’re trading Anderson and not replacing his spot.

Soriano, FA/Trade, FA/Trade, Detmers, Kochanowicz, Silseth, Aldegheri, Dana, Bachman, Klassen, Daniel/Kerry.

[Angels 1961]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

That’s incredibly stupid to say. Of course someone would take Anderson. Someone gave Wacha $16 million. Someone gave Giolito 2 years and $38 million coming off of his worst season. Maeda got $24 million over two years at 36 years old returning from injury.  So yea, he’s absolutely tradeable. Now if you want to argue what you can get for him that’s fine but to pretend his contract is unmovable is just being ignorant. 

Do not compare Wacha with Anderson. Just look at both of their numbers. Wacha is a good pitcher where Anderson stinks. Perry could not dump Anderson at trade deadline. How did Giolito and Maeda work out for Detroit and Boston. Many teams again will be cutting payroll and trading for Anderson would not be a good investment. If he is so tradeable, what would you get? Nothing of value, just like Ohtani Perry missed boat on trading Anderson. If you are not going to get anything for him to me he is not tradeable. His numbers last 2 years are BAD.

[Stradling]

17 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Do not compare Wacha with Anderson. Just look at both of their numbers. Wacha is a good pitcher where Anderson stinks. Perry could not dump Anderson at trade deadline. How did Giolito and Maeda work out for Detroit and Boston. Many teams again will be cutting payroll and trading for Anderson would not be a good investment. If he is so tradeable, what would you get? Nothing of value, just like Ohtani Perry missed boat on trading Anderson. If you are not going to get anything for him to me he is not tradeable. His numbers last 2 years are BAD.

Anderson stinks?  Anderson didn’t have the value Perry wanted at the deadline. He and his salary could have been traded. Anderson and Wacha had very similar WARs this season. Also lefties have inherent value. So if Anderson stinks then Wacha stinks. “If he is so tradeable” I said he could be traded numbnuts. I didn’t say his value was exceptional. His numbers last year were good. Unlike a Giolito or Maeda who just last off season got paid.