So umm.. thoughts on Jerry Dipoto

[gotbeer]

Also, looked up Posey.  He would have been in arbitration 1 this offseason.  He signed a 9 year/$167 million deal this offseason.  

 

 

• 13:$3M, 
• 14 (Arb 1):$10.5M, 
• 15 (arb 2):$16.5M, 
• 16 (Arb 3):$20M, 
• 17 (FA):$21.4M, 
• 18:$21.4M,
• 19:$21.4M, 
• 20:$21.4M, 
• 21:$21.4M, 
• 22:$22M club option ($3M buyout)

 

[Hollyw00d]

Great deal for both posey and the giants

[Ohtaniland]

That is fine in dandy in an utopian world.

What would a rational person do?

A: accept a $170 million right now?

B: play for minimum wage next year, play for arbritration salary in 2015, 2016, and 2017. All the while hope you don't suffer a career ending injury thus leaving you with nothing, and wait for a bigger salary after 2017?

NO RATIONAL PERSON WOULD TURN THAT DOWN UNLESS THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY MISERABLE. And Trout is playing too well to be miserable. Yes, it is about winning. And yes many people turn down money in order to play for a winner. However, those people who turn down money are not turning down a guaranteed $170 million.

I don't recall seeing any offer of $170M to Mike Trout for 10 years but I do recall him getting a $20,000 slap in the face raise. This is Albert's team and that's not going to change. Mike Trout is one of the elite players in baseball so can pretty much get what he wants. I don't think that he will want to hang around a team with aging veterans hitting .250 with no farm. Mike Trout is a winner playing on a below .500 team 11 games out. He's not going to want to hang around all these underperforming players.

[NrM]

Honestly, that non-deal is what really made me start to second guess his thought processes.   Marmol is the exact opposite of a saber reliever.  Most saber guys view relievers as completely interchangeable and an area where a team can find value..  So Dipoto tries to trade for an expensive walk machine...   There was little chance for improvement there and a clear disconnect from saber-principles.

 

Dipoto gets three years from me --  if at the end of next year the farm system is still a joke and the MLB team has continued to slip. I look for someone with similar views and a better eye for putting a plan together.  

The problem is, he's not only killing this team right now, he's killing the franchise's hopes of competing for the years after he's fired. I'm sure everyone at Angelswin will blame the next GM, but it will all be on JeDi.

This team could be bad for a very long time.

[gotbeer]

Just to play the non roses edition.  But what if say this offseason the Angels offer Trout a 10/$200, and he says no, I'm going to test FA'cy, or says he doesn't think he will stick with the Angels he wants to go back east.  

 

Do we think of trading him?  

[mulwin444]

I don't recall seeing any offer of $170M to Mike Trout for 10 years but I do recall him getting a $20,000 slap in the face raise. This is Albert's team and that's not going to change. Mike Trout is one of the elite players in baseball so can pretty much get what he wants. I don't think that he will want to hang around a team with aging veterans hitting .250 with no farm. Mike Trout is a winner playing on a below .500 team 11 games out. He's not going to want to hang around all these underperforming players.

 How is it "Albert's team"?  Because he's paid the most?  They may cater to him because of his standing in baseball but I highly doubt Trout feels answerable to him.  Right now, Trout is the most recognizable asset on the team and is the future of the franchise.  Who do you think they've been centering their marketing around?  Who do you think they'll keep in mind when thinking of future moves and the direction of the franchise?  It won't be Big Al. 

[NrM]

Just to play the non roses edition.  But what if say this offseason the Angels offer Trout a 10/$200, and he says no, I'm going to test FA'cy, or says he doesn't think he will stick with the Angels he wants to go back east.  

 

Do we think of trading him?  

With the state of this org., they would need to commit to a full out rebuild mode like the cubs are doing. 

Trade trout and try to package him with pujols(pay half of his remaining salary).

 

I doubt Arte and crew will ever commit to a full out rebuild mode, so this org. and all of the rose colored angelwin fans will be content with being mediocre every year.

[gotbeer]

With the state of this org., they would need to commit to a full out rebuild mode like the cubs are doing. 

Trade trout and try to package him with pujols(pay half of his remaining salary).

 

I doubt Arte and crew will ever commit to a full out rebuild mode, so this org. and all of the rose colored angelwin fans will be content with being mediocre every year.

 

If you trade Trout, hypothetically in the offseason because you know he will not sign long term with the team, I think you could probably include Hamilton with the other team paying all of his salary and raid all of their top prospects.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

I'd like to see all this documentation you claim to be out there saying that Arte skipped over Dipoto to sign Pujols.  

 

This seems to be the meme for all those who buy into the Dipoto/Moneyball theory.  It goes right back to my question as to why Reagins takes heat and Dipoto gets a pass from those same people.

 

There is no shortage of articles about Moreno visiting Pujols and talking to him about family and the future so forth. It's not quite a secret. It's pretty much a cinch, too, that Dipoto didn't arrange the personal services contract that takes over once Pujols' playing days are done. Moreno's fingerprints are all over this.

 

I find it hard to believe that Dipoto went to Moreno and asked him to do this so that he could bring in Pujols.

[Ohtaniland]

With the state of this org., they would need to commit to a full out rebuild mode like the cubs are doing.

Trade trout and try to package him with pujols(pay half of his remaining salary).

I doubt Arte and crew will ever commit to a full out rebuild mode, so this org. and all of the rose colored angelwin fans will be content with being mediocre every year.

I completely agree. I think they need to scrap the current plan and ditch some bad contracts........again! Trout probably gets disgusted watching all the flailing overpaid players.

[Angel Oracle]

Any player who has the total advanced tool set and the poise that Trout has, needs to be one of the team's leaders as he gets older.

[mulwin444]

The only person who knows what Trout is thinking, at this point, is Trout...unless some are claiming to have the ability to read minds. 

[Erstad Grit]

1. This franchise was in horrible shape when he took over. Generally, there is a lag time between organizations being in trouble and it being obvious through performance. When the Phillies won the World Series in 2008, nobody thought they were in such bad shape, but they were, and the last two years, it's become obvious with their on-field performance. Two seasons is not nearly long enough to right the ship. It will probably take another 3 years or so for the minors to start looking like it's bearing fruit again. Besides, how much time was Reagins given?

 

2. I doubt that Madson was what the bullpen hopes were being pinned on. He was a low-risk, high-reward signing that cost a whole $3.5 million. Of course there were risks, but he's not costing much, so why not? Burnett, yeah, I can see it, but then again, the guy averaged 69 appearances per year for the previous 5 years, so it was obvious that he would spend so much time in the DL, right?

 

3. Nobody knows how much influence Arte had on the Hamilton signing. I'm just gonna say that he had a nonzero influence.

 

4. Cashman gave us some money for Wells. None of us thought this was possible. Give the man some credit for taking Wells away from Scioscia and getting SOME money for it.

 

5. While I did not think Pujols and Hamilton were the signings that we needed (I was very vocal for Prince instead of Pujols, and I wanted nothing to do with Hamilton), we all thought we would get some decent years from Pujols before the contract length made it look horrible. NONE of us thought it would take just one year to look bad. Yes, he had been declining beginning around 2011, but it was a slight decline, then another one last year. Most people would take a slight decline from one of the greatest players of all time. This year, whether because of injury or not, his decline has looked more like he jumped off a cliff. As far as Hamilton, he has always looked bad at times, but the good streaks, when he can carry a team, have masked those. Although last year's second-half issues were well-documented, his first two months were lights-out, and led to good overall numbers. I'm sure if his numbers were to end up where they did last year (or even in the same area code), that will take an incredible hot streak, one that could very well carry a team, even this one, to a postseason berth. Is it likely? Of course not, but if it does, whomever was primarily responsible for his signing, whether it was Arte or Jerry, is going to look really good in hindsight.

 

This organization was in trouble when Dipoto took over. To think otherwise is to be in Fantasyland. It's going to take a long time to rebuild the system, which will have to be done from the ground up. That takes time.

 

Do you think the Astros are going to fire their GM after two years? That's how bad the farm system was when Dipoto took over. At least their fan base and ownership realizes it's going to take a long time. In two to three years, they will be in better shape than the Angels. The judgement on Dipoto's job cannot be based solely on the performance of the big club. That would be short-sighted. It has to be judged on the organization as a whole, and that is going to take more than a season and a half to fix.

 

I feel like you are not hearing me. I am not saying fire JD because he has not fixed this in 2 off seasons. I am saying fire JD because he has made us exponentially worse in two off seasons. Big difference. If we had the same record but using up and coming inexpensive players I would be excited right now. I am not excited knowing Hamilton/Pujols are going to continue to get massive raises while becoming more diminished as players. 

[tdawg87]

This organization needs a gritty reboot. I nominated Christopher Nolan for new GM.

[WallyWorld]

since the decision maker behind the Pujols and Hamilton deals is so nebulous, the 2 clearest and biggest indictments against Dipoto IMO are:

 

1) Joe Blanton

2) Chris Iannetta

 

Both of those moves to me indicate a clear failure in evaluating talent.  The Blanton signing speaks for itself, but I think Iannetta is overlooked in terms of his contribution to this team's problems.  Forget his offense (which outside of his ability to BB has been awful), there's been evidence throughout his career that he's awful handling pitching staffs.  There was the kerfuffle with Blanton last weekend, Weaver has been seen in heated arguments with him as well, and I know some of the other pitchers have made comments about pitch calling over the last couple seasons.  Bottom line is, we would have a pretty mediocre staff even with a great catcher - with Iannetta it's worse.

[AZMike]

since the decision maker behind the Pujols and Hamilton deals is so nebulous, the 2 clearest and biggest indictments against Dipoto IMO are:

 

1) Joe Blanton

2) Chris Iannetta

3) Carlos Marmol

 

Both of those moves to me indicate a clear failure in evaluating talent.  The Blanton signing speaks for itself, but I think Iannetta is overlooked in terms of his contribution to this team's problems.  Forget his offense (which outside of his ability to BB has been awful), there's been evidence throughout his career that he's awful handling pitching staffs.  There was the kerfuffle with Blanton last weekend, Weaver has been seen in heated arguments with him as well, and I know some of the other pitchers have made comments about pitch calling over the last couple seasons.  Bottom line is, we would have a pretty mediocre staff even with a great catcher - with Iannetta it's worse.

 

 

We would have a significantly better pitching staff with Tyler Chatwood in the rotation (instead of Blanton), Conger as primary catcher, and Synder or Bobby Wilson as backup. 

[YouthofToday]

That is fine in dandy in an utopian world.

What would a rational person do?

A: accept a $170 million right now?

B: play for minimum wage next year, play for arbritration salary in 2015, 2016, and 2017. All the while hope you don't suffer a career ending injury thus leaving you with nothing, and wait for a bigger salary after 2017?

NO RATIONAL PERSON WOULD TURN THAT DOWN UNLESS THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY MISERABLE. And Trout is playing too well to be miserable. Yes, it is about winning. And yes many people turn down money in order to play for a winner. However, those people who turn down money are not turning down a guaranteed $170 million.

Disagree, if I were Trout I'd play it out and go year by year with arbitration. Dude will break all records.

[YouthofToday]

This is not the Albert Pujols's team. That is laughable at best.

How can a barely replacement level DH only player be the lead dawg?

[Mark68]

I feel like you are not hearing me. I am not saying fire JD because he has not fixed this in 2 off seasons. I am saying fire JD because he has made us exponentially worse in two off seasons. Big difference. If we had the same record but using up and coming inexpensive players I would be excited right now. I am not excited knowing Hamilton/Pujols are going to continue to get massive raises while becoming more diminished as players. 

Exponentially worse? You cannot be serious. If this team were exponentially worse, it would be the Marlins.

[AZMike]

Exponentially worse? You cannot be serious. If this team were exponentially worse, it would be the Marlins.

Check back in two to three years. The team no longer has the financial flexibility to patch any more holes with free agent moves. That won't be long enough for the latest crop of draftees to make it up, and that's assuming those prospects aren't traded away in the interim. It will however be long enough for Pujols, Hamilton, Weaver, Wilson, Callaspo, Kendrick to get two to three years older.

[Angel Oracle]

since the decision maker behind the Pujols and Hamilton deals is so nebulous, the 2 clearest and biggest indictments against Dipoto IMO are:

1) Joe Blanton

2) Chris Iannetta

Both of those moves to me indicate a clear failure in evaluating talent. The Blanton signing speaks for itself, but I think Iannetta is overlooked in terms of his contribution to this team's problems. Forget his offense (which outside of his ability to BB has been awful), there's been evidence throughout his career that he's awful handling pitching staffs. There was the kerfuffle with Blanton last weekend, Weaver has been seen in heated arguments with him as well, and I know some of the other pitchers have made comments about pitch calling over the last couple seasons. Bottom line is, we would have a pretty mediocre staff even with a great catcher - with Iannetta it's worse.

Even worse, we traded a pitcher who showed good poise for a 21 year-old, to acquire Iannetta.

All I ask is that we stop trading so many solid pitching prospects away. After all, pitching is the name of the game.

Rotation could have been Weaver, Wilson, Corbin, Chatwood, and Vargas, with Skaggs in waiting.

[AZMike]

Even worse, we traded a pitcher who showed good poise for a 21 year-old, to acquire Iannetta.

All I ask is that we stop trading so many solid pitching prospects away. After all, pitching is the name of the game.

Rotation could have been Weaver, Wilson, Corbin, Chatwood, and Vargas, with Skaggs in waiting.

Dipoto was a real d*ck for trading away Corbin, Skaggs and Saunders

[Erstad Grit]

Check back in two to three years. The team no longer has the financial flexibility to patch any more holes with free agent moves. That won't be long enough for the latest crop of draftees to make it up, and that's assuming those prospects aren't traded away in the interim. It will however be long enough for Pujols, Hamilton, Weaver, Wilson, Callaspo, Kendrick to get two to three years older.

 

Exactly. Every year we are giving raises to players who are getting worse. Every year we are older with less flexibility. 

[Ohtaniland]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/04/whos-the-best-gm-in-baseball.html

 

 

A not so stealthy ranking for Mr. JeDi.

[YouthofToday]

To be honest I totally lost trust in Dipoto when it was reported -- with merit -- that we were all set to trade Haren for Marmol.

Thankfully the Cubs said no due to the physicals.

I really wouldn't have qualms about Arte moving in another direction.