The jury's in on Perry Minasian

[Hubs]

Everyone bashes Eppler but who was a better GM, he or Perry? Neither made the playoffs. 

We can blame this on Arte interfering, but short of the one vetoed trade with the Dodgers, which turned out well, was there any other evidence showing he interfered with his GM? He is to blame for not paying a legit GM salary or hiring enough front office folks, that is for sure.

And it is time for a new direction. 

But Eppler vs. Minasian isn't the slam dunk the Perry Stans would have you believe.

Eppler had the offseason preceding the 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, and 2020 seasons. He had the same drafts and deadlines.

Minasian has had the offseason preceding the 2021, 2022, 2023, and 2024 seasons. He has had the same drafts and deadlines.

2015-2016- In the offseason before the 2016 season, Eppler traded for Andrelton Simmons, signed Geovany Soto to replace Iannetta, and traded for Yunel Escobar to replace David Freese at the hot corner. A lot of other journeymen and mediocre signings. Highlights of the draft were Matt Thaiss, Brandon Marsh and Chris Rodriguez. At the deadline he acquired Alex Meyer and Ricky Nolasco for Hector Santiago. 

2016-2017- In this offseason before 2017 season, he traded for Cameron Maybin, Martín Maldonado, Danny Espinosa and signed Ben Revere, Yusmiero Petit, Dustin Ackley and Luis Valbuena. The trade deadline was uneventful, but they claimed Justin Upton on waivers at the August waiver deadline. He drafted Jo Adell and Griffin Canning. 

2017-2018 - In the offseason before 2018 season, they certainly made a splash. Signed Shohei Ohtani & Zack Cozart, traded for Ian Kinsler and Jabari Blash. Drafted Jordyn Adams, Kyle Bradish, Andrew Wantz and Austin Warren. At the deadline they sold Kinsler for Ty Buttrey. Mike Scioscia forcibly retired.

2018-2019 - In the offseason before 2019, he signed Matt Harvey, Trevor Cahill, Cody Allen, Jonathan Lucroy and Justin Bour. Traded for Luis García, Traded for Tommy LaStella, Chris Stratton, Dillon Peters and John Curtiss. He claimed Kevan Smith and a few other guys. Drafted Will Wilson, Jack Kochanowicz, Davis Daniel and Kyren Paris. Signed Mike Trout to a 360M extension. Picked up Max Stassi and Patrick Sandoval at the deadline. Brad Ausmus was the manager pick, fired after one season.

2019-2020 - In the offseason before 2020, he signed Anthony Rendon, Julio Teahran, Jason Castro. Acquired Dylan Bundy (for Kyle Bradish) claimed Mike Mayers and Jose Quijada. Traded away Cozart and Wilson for Cash. They traded away LaStella, Goodwin, and Castro at the deadline and got next to nothing back (Packy Naughton, Franklin Barretto) Drafted Detmers in a shortened draft. Signed Maddon to be manager.

Overall it's very mediocre, but there were some really good moves. Eppler really didn't draft well, That would be a D+/D and that was his undoing. The Angels were sellers or stood pat at every deadline, so we never saw them acquire anyone. He didn't make a lot of impactful deals at the deadline, but he didnt mess anything up beyond repair. He made some great free agent signings (Ohtani, Trout extension) and some bad ones (Rendon can't stay healthy). Upton was good for a while until he wasn't. Overall C-/D+ I suppose. 

Minasian came in with a youthful vigor and tried to shake up the place, but he hasn't done that well in 4 seasons at the helm. His first year, in the 2020-2021 offseason, he spent modestly on free agents. Jose Quintana, Kurt Suzuki, Alex Claudio. Traded for Raisel Iglesias, which is probably his best trade. Traded for Jose Iglesias, Dexter Fowler, Alex Cobb, and Jack Mayfield. Signed Tony Watson and Steve CIschek in Spring Training. Traded Andrew Heaney at the 2021 deadline. Drafted 20 pitchers, but three full seasons later, only Sam Bachman and Chase Silseth have made any appearances in the majors. A lot of these guys were shipped off in trades.

In the 2021-2022 offseason, Signed Noah Syndergaard, resigned Iglesias, signed Aaron Loup and Michael Lorenzen. Fired Maddon during the season after a good start and then a losing streak. Hired Phil Nevin.  At the 2022 deadline he traded Iglesias and got nearly zero return. Traded Brandon Marsh for Logan O'Hoppe which was good for both sides. Traded Syndergaard for Moniak. Drafted Zach Neto, Ben Joyce, Victor Mederos, Caden Dana and others. 

In the 2022-2023 offseason he inexplicably rehired Phil Nevin then signed Tyler Anderson, Brandon Drury, Carlos Estevez, Matt Moore, Justin Garza, and Brett Phillips. Traded for Renfroe and Gio Urshela. Then Traded for Mike Moustakas in June. Had a disastrous deadline, trading for Giolito and Lopez for top prospects Edgar Quero and Ky Bush. Also Traded for CJ Cron and Randal Grichuck, then put everyone on waivers three weeks later. Drafted Nolan Schanuel, and paid him full slot, a few other guys who are doing good in the minors (Redfield, Fontanelle), but have already had some high round misses (Alberto Rios, Chris Clark).

In the 2023-2024 offseason, hired Ron Washington, and then he signed a lot of relievers, Luis Garcia again, Matt Moore again, Adam Cimber, Zach Plesac, Jose Cisnero and Robert Stephenson. Stephenson needed TJ before season started. Traded Max Stassi, David Fletcher, for Evan White for some reason. At the deadline, he shipped off Estevez and Garcia for a few decent prospects and some organizational filler. Drafted Christian Moore, Ryan Johnson, and Chris Cortez. Drafted TGA with a big bonus in the 11th round. Failed to sign Ryan Prager in the third round. 

Overall, Minsasian has not spent a large contract on a significant free agent, and while he's had some good signings, he really hasn't done anything well here. I'd give him a solid C or C-. He's drafted well, which is probably a B+ as he's also made some weird draft moves. But he seems to do ok. Buying at the deadline is a solid F. He did terrible in his one deadline buy. Selling at the deadline, an A...with just the O'Hoppe Trade. Overall Trades I would give a B-, as there are some really good ones but some really bad ones as well.

So he's a B-/C+ GM as opposed to Eppler's C-/D+.

 

 

 

[Swordsman78]

11 minutes ago, Hubs said:

Everyone bashes Eppler but who was a better GM, he or Perry? Neither made the playoffs. 

We can blame this on Arte interfering, but short of the one vetoed trade with the Dodgers, which turned out well, was there any other evidence showing he interfered with his GM? He is to blame for not paying a legit GM salary or hiring enough front office folks, that is for sure.

And it is time for a new direction. 

But Eppler vs. Minasian isn't the slam dunk the Perry Stans would have you believe.

Eppler had the offseason preceding the 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, and 2020 seasons. He had the same drafts and deadlines.

Minasian has had the offseason preceding the 2021, 2022, 2023, and 2024 seasons. He has had the same drafts and deadlines.

2015-2016- In the offseason before the 2016 season, Eppler traded for Andrelton Simmons, signed Geovany Soto to replace Iannetta, and traded for Yunel Escobar to replace David Freese at the hot corner. A lot of other journeymen and mediocre signings. Highlights of the draft were Matt Thaiss, Brandon Marsh and Chris Rodriguez. At the deadline he acquired Alex Meyer and Ricky Nolasco for Hector Santiago. 

2016-2017- In this offseason before 2017 season, he traded for Cameron Maybin, Martín Maldonado, Danny Espinosa and signed Ben Revere, Yusmiero Petit, Dustin Ackley and Luis Valbuena. The trade deadline was uneventful, but they claimed Justin Upton on waivers at the August waiver deadline. He drafted Jo Adell and Griffin Canning. 

2017-2018 - In the offseason before 2018 season, they certainly made a splash. Signed Shohei Ohtani & Zack Cozart, traded for Ian Kinsler and Jabari Blash. Drafted Jordyn Adams, Kyle Bradish, Andrew Wantz and Austin Warren. At the deadline they sold Kinsler for Ty Buttrey. Mike Scioscia forcibly retired.

2018-2019 - In the offseason before 2019, he signed Matt Harvey, Trevor Cahill, Cody Allen, Jonathan Lucroy and Justin Bour. Traded for Luis García, Traded for Tommy LaStella, Chris Stratton, Dillon Peters and John Curtiss. He claimed Kevan Smith and a few other guys. Drafted Will Wilson, Jack Kochanowicz, Davis Daniel and Kyren Paris. Signed Mike Trout to a 360M extension. Picked up Max Stassi and Patrick Sandoval at the deadline. Brad Ausmus was the manager pick, fired after one season.

2019-2020 - In the offseason before 2020, he signed Anthony Rendon, Julio Teahran, Jason Castro. Acquired Dylan Bundy (for Kyle Bradish) claimed Mike Mayers and Jose Quijada. Traded away Cozart and Wilson for Cash. They traded away LaStella, Goodwin, and Castro at the deadline and got next to nothing back (Packy Naughton, Franklin Barretto) Drafted Detmers in a shortened draft. Signed Maddon to be manager.

Overall it's very mediocre, but there were some really good moves. Eppler really didn't draft well, That would be a D+/D and that was his undoing. The Angels were sellers or stood pat at every deadline, so we never saw them acquire anyone. He didn't make a lot of impactful deals at the deadline, but he didnt mess anything up beyond repair. He made some great free agent signings (Ohtani, Trout extension) and some bad ones (Rendon can't stay healthy). Upton was good for a while until he wasn't. Overall C-/D+ I suppose. 

Minasian came in with a youthful vigor and tried to shake up the place, but he hasn't done that well in 4 seasons at the helm. His first year, in the 2020-2021 offseason, he spent modestly on free agents. Jose Quintana, Kurt Suzuki, Alex Claudio. Traded for Raisel Iglesias, which is probably his best trade. Traded for Jose Iglesias, Dexter Fowler, Alex Cobb, and Jack Mayfield. Signed Tony Watson and Steve CIschek in Spring Training. Traded Andrew Heaney at the 2021 deadline. Drafted 20 pitchers, but three full seasons later, only Sam Bachman and Chase Silseth have made any appearances in the majors. A lot of these guys were shipped off in trades.

In the 2021-2022 offseason, Signed Noah Syndergaard, resigned Iglesias, signed Aaron Loup and Michael Lorenzen. Fired Maddon during the season after a good start and then a losing streak. Hired Phil Nevin.  At the 2022 deadline he traded Iglesias and got nearly zero return. Traded Brandon Marsh for Logan O'Hoppe which was good for both sides. Traded Syndergaard for Moniak. Drafted Zach Neto, Ben Joyce, Victor Mederos, Caden Dana and others. 

In the 2022-2023 offseason he inexplicably rehired Phil Nevin then signed Tyler Anderson, Brandon Drury, Carlos Estevez, Matt Moore, Justin Garza, and Brett Phillips. Traded for Renfroe and Gio Urshela. Then Traded for Mike Moustakas in June. Had a disastrous deadline, trading for Giolito and Lopez for top prospects Edgar Quero and Ky Bush. Also Traded for CJ Cron and Randal Grichuck, then put everyone on waivers three weeks later. Drafted Nolan Schanuel, and paid him full slot, a few other guys who are doing good in the minors (Redfield, Fontanelle), but have already had some high round misses (Alberto Rios, Chris Clark).

In the 2023-2024 offseason, hired Ron Washington, and then he signed a lot of relievers, Luis Garcia again, Matt Moore again, Adam Cimber, Zach Plesac, Jose Cisnero and Robert Stephenson. Stephenson needed TJ before season started. Traded Max Stassi, David Fletcher, for Evan White for some reason. At the deadline, he shipped off Estevez and Garcia for a few decent prospects and some organizational filler. Drafted Christian Moore, Ryan Johnson, and Chris Cortez. Drafted TGA with a big bonus in the 11th round. Failed to sign Ryan Prager in the third round. 

Overall, Minsasian has not spent a large contract on a significant free agent, and while he's had some good signings, he really hasn't done anything well here. I'd give him a solid C or C-. He's drafted well, which is probably a B+ as he's also made some weird draft moves. But he seems to do ok. Buying at the deadline is a solid F. He did terrible in his one deadline buy. Selling at the deadline, an A...with just the O'Hoppe Trade. Overall Trades I would give a B-, as there are some really good ones but some really bad ones as well.

So he's a B-/C+ GM as opposed to Eppler's C-/D+.

 

 

 

Decent take until it inexplicably went off the rails. 

[jsnpritchett]

10 minutes ago, Swordsman78 said:

Decent take until it inexplicably went off the rails. 

Can't even imagine what might have triggered you...

[katie]

From my Facebook memories today… 

[bruin5]

57 minutes ago, Hubs said:

Everyone bashes Eppler but who was a better GM, he or Perry? Neither made the playoffs. 

We can blame this on Arte interfering, but short of the one vetoed trade with the Dodgers, which turned out well, was there any other evidence showing he interfered with his GM? He is to blame for not paying a legit GM salary or hiring enough front office folks, that is for sure.

And it is time for a new direction. 

But Eppler vs. Minasian isn't the slam dunk the Perry Stans would have you believe.

Eppler had the offseason preceding the 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, and 2020 seasons. He had the same drafts and deadlines.

Minasian has had the offseason preceding the 2021, 2022, 2023, and 2024 seasons. He has had the same drafts and deadlines.

2015-2016- In the offseason before the 2016 season, Eppler traded for Andrelton Simmons, signed Geovany Soto to replace Iannetta, and traded for Yunel Escobar to replace David Freese at the hot corner. A lot of other journeymen and mediocre signings. Highlights of the draft were Matt Thaiss, Brandon Marsh and Chris Rodriguez. At the deadline he acquired Alex Meyer and Ricky Nolasco for Hector Santiago. 

2016-2017- In this offseason before 2017 season, he traded for Cameron Maybin, Martín Maldonado, Danny Espinosa and signed Ben Revere, Yusmiero Petit, Dustin Ackley and Luis Valbuena. The trade deadline was uneventful, but they claimed Justin Upton on waivers at the August waiver deadline. He drafted Jo Adell and Griffin Canning. 

2017-2018 - In the offseason before 2018 season, they certainly made a splash. Signed Shohei Ohtani & Zack Cozart, traded for Ian Kinsler and Jabari Blash. Drafted Jordyn Adams, Kyle Bradish, Andrew Wantz and Austin Warren. At the deadline they sold Kinsler for Ty Buttrey. Mike Scioscia forcibly retired.

2018-2019 - In the offseason before 2019, he signed Matt Harvey, Trevor Cahill, Cody Allen, Jonathan Lucroy and Justin Bour. Traded for Luis García, Traded for Tommy LaStella, Chris Stratton, Dillon Peters and John Curtiss. He claimed Kevan Smith and a few other guys. Drafted Will Wilson, Jack Kochanowicz, Davis Daniel and Kyren Paris. Signed Mike Trout to a 360M extension. Picked up Max Stassi and Patrick Sandoval at the deadline. Brad Ausmus was the manager pick, fired after one season.

2019-2020 - In the offseason before 2020, he signed Anthony Rendon, Julio Teahran, Jason Castro. Acquired Dylan Bundy (for Kyle Bradish) claimed Mike Mayers and Jose Quijada. Traded away Cozart and Wilson for Cash. They traded away LaStella, Goodwin, and Castro at the deadline and got next to nothing back (Packy Naughton, Franklin Barretto) Drafted Detmers in a shortened draft. Signed Maddon to be manager.

Overall it's very mediocre, but there were some really good moves. Eppler really didn't draft well, That would be a D+/D and that was his undoing. The Angels were sellers or stood pat at every deadline, so we never saw them acquire anyone. He didn't make a lot of impactful deals at the deadline, but he didnt mess anything up beyond repair. He made some great free agent signings (Ohtani, Trout extension) and some bad ones (Rendon can't stay healthy). Upton was good for a while until he wasn't. Overall C-/D+ I suppose. 

Minasian came in with a youthful vigor and tried to shake up the place, but he hasn't done that well in 4 seasons at the helm. His first year, in the 2020-2021 offseason, he spent modestly on free agents. Jose Quintana, Kurt Suzuki, Alex Claudio. Traded for Raisel Iglesias, which is probably his best trade. Traded for Jose Iglesias, Dexter Fowler, Alex Cobb, and Jack Mayfield. Signed Tony Watson and Steve CIschek in Spring Training. Traded Andrew Heaney at the 2021 deadline. Drafted 20 pitchers, but three full seasons later, only Sam Bachman and Chase Silseth have made any appearances in the majors. A lot of these guys were shipped off in trades.

In the 2021-2022 offseason, Signed Noah Syndergaard, resigned Iglesias, signed Aaron Loup and Michael Lorenzen. Fired Maddon during the season after a good start and then a losing streak. Hired Phil Nevin.  At the 2022 deadline he traded Iglesias and got nearly zero return. Traded Brandon Marsh for Logan O'Hoppe which was good for both sides. Traded Syndergaard for Moniak. Drafted Zach Neto, Ben Joyce, Victor Mederos, Caden Dana and others. 

In the 2022-2023 offseason he inexplicably rehired Phil Nevin then signed Tyler Anderson, Brandon Drury, Carlos Estevez, Matt Moore, Justin Garza, and Brett Phillips. Traded for Renfroe and Gio Urshela. Then Traded for Mike Moustakas in June. Had a disastrous deadline, trading for Giolito and Lopez for top prospects Edgar Quero and Ky Bush. Also Traded for CJ Cron and Randal Grichuck, then put everyone on waivers three weeks later. Drafted Nolan Schanuel, and paid him full slot, a few other guys who are doing good in the minors (Redfield, Fontanelle), but have already had some high round misses (Alberto Rios, Chris Clark).

In the 2023-2024 offseason, hired Ron Washington, and then he signed a lot of relievers, Luis Garcia again, Matt Moore again, Adam Cimber, Zach Plesac, Jose Cisnero and Robert Stephenson. Stephenson needed TJ before season started. Traded Max Stassi, David Fletcher, for Evan White for some reason. At the deadline, he shipped off Estevez and Garcia for a few decent prospects and some organizational filler. Drafted Christian Moore, Ryan Johnson, and Chris Cortez. Drafted TGA with a big bonus in the 11th round. Failed to sign Ryan Prager in the third round. 

Overall, Minsasian has not spent a large contract on a significant free agent, and while he's had some good signings, he really hasn't done anything well here. I'd give him a solid C or C-. He's drafted well, which is probably a B+ as he's also made some weird draft moves. But he seems to do ok. Buying at the deadline is a solid F. He did terrible in his one deadline buy. Selling at the deadline, an A...with just the O'Hoppe Trade. Overall Trades I would give a B-, as there are some really good ones but some really bad ones as well.

So he's a B-/C+ GM as opposed to Eppler's C-/D+.

 

 

 

Minasian also had the cajones to jettison Upton and Pujols. If rumors are correct, he also pushed back on Arte’s desire to sign Seager to the long contract and maybe even Bellinger. 

[totdprods]

Any mention of Eppler is doing him a disservice if not detailing how his teams had to withstand an onslaught of injuries. He definitely had faults when it came to roster building but I truly believe injuries sunk him more than anything.

If I remember, in the middle of his tenure he basically lost every SP we had to significant injury (Ohtani, Heaney, Skaggs, Richards, Tropeano all had TJ) almost all at the same time, and then almost everyone he found to replace them needed it as well (JC, Meyer, Lamb) and I think a few others as well.

The result was he wound up rushing a lot of talent before it was ready, and I think we can see that even more clearly now as guys like Adell, Ward, Rengifo, even Thaiss are coming around somewhat, just years later than hoped for. Barria amd Suarez and probably Canning were also rushed. He had to fill gaps in the roster and banked too much on these guys being ready. 

I cannot preach how important it is that we build some depth, and even though I have Perry criticisms I am hesitant to replace him simply because I think the continuity of him with Ron and the current staff is more beneficial to our current wave of young talent than introducing another admin.

[Hubs]

53 minutes ago, Swordsman78 said:

Decent take until it inexplicably went off the rails. 

Love your takes bro.

 

[Hubs]

5 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Any mention of Eppler is doing him a disservice if not detailing how his teams had to withstand an onslaught of injuries. He definitely had faults when it came to roster building but I truly believe injuries sunk him more than anything.

If I remember, in the middle of his tenure he basically lost every SP we had to significant injury (Ohtani, Heaney, Skaggs, Richards, Tropeano all had TJ) almost all at the same time, and then almost everyone he found to replace them needed it as well (JC, Meyer, Lamb) and I think a few others as well.

The result was he wound up rushing a lot of talent before it was ready, and I think we can see that even more clearly now as guys like Adell, Ward, Rengifo, even Thaiss are coming around somewhat, just years later than hoped for. Barria amd Suarez and probably Canning were also rushed. He had to fill gaps in the roster and banked too much on these guys being ready. 

I cannot preach how important it is that we build some depth, and even though I have Perry criticisms I am hesitant to replace him simply because I think the continuity of him with Ron and the current staff is more beneficial to our current wave of young talent than introducing another admin.

Agreed. Injuries sabotaged both guys substantially, but Eppler almost exclusively on the pitching side. Minasian has had to deal with Rendon and Trout and a few bad luck other guys.

[Taylor]

1 hour ago, Kendo36 said:

I mentioned in other posts but Tyler Anderson is not a highly desirable piece. Analytics hate him. And I got laughed at. We probably didn't get an offer that was better than having him for next season on a club friendly deal. Ward is controllable until 2027 and with Adell and Moniak sucking, he's more important. Rengifo might be our starting 3rd baseman next year. It's not as much of a fail as people are making it out to be. They can all be traded at the deadline next year if we are out of it and give us less holes to fill in the offseason. 

There’s always one “I was right all along you morons” guy in these threads.

[Tank]

17 hours ago, ScottT said:

Fans are less than satisfied with a lot more than that.   

no disagreement here but i was talking only about the trade deadline. 

[Angelsjunky]

Props to @Hubs for that. I could quibble with this or that, but it is well-thought out and well overviews the ups and downs of both.

 

[Angelsjunky]

Anyhow, after the initial disappointment that Perry didn't completely revamp the minor leagues, I've softened a bit, especially with @Jeff Fletcher's clarification that the offers for the others were underwhelming.

Both packages for Estevez and Garcia were rather terrific - not in terms of the flashiness or upside of the prospects, but in terms of the total he got back for two guys on expiring contracts. And there are some intriguing prospects there - every single one has potential, and seems well-chosen. Klassen is the potential jewel, but Aldegheri seems like a high floor #4-5, Lugo at least a useful bench guy, Kavadas a nice depth bat, Zeferjahn a possible bullpen in the near future, and even Vargas is a nice dice-roll.

So, at the least, he did something towards improving future prospects for the org, even if it wasn't the big haul or two that we hoped for. One good and one pretty good haul is still going in the right direction.

Also, if anything, Anderson, Ward, and Rengifo could improve their trade value with a solid final third of the year. Ward is a good candidate to heat up and if he finishes with .250/.750 and 25 HR, he is either a solid regular going into next year, or a potential trade chip. Rengifo is due for some power, so can fill out his season and finish with .290/.750 and 12-15 HR. Maybe Anderson holds steady the rest of the year and is either at least a steady innings eater for the Angels, or more appealing to a team looking at such a player for a full year on a reasonable contract. 

I think it was @Stradling who said that it is more about disappointment at what he didn't do, and not about what he did - which was pretty good. I was just hoping for more of that, especially after the nice Estevez trade.

Edited July 31 by Angelsjunky

[Hubs]

Look, Perry has his pros and cons, and for me the big con (besides his interference with the manager as described in Maddon's book) is a lack of quality free agent spending, as pretty much all of his free agent signings have either been disasters or have had ups and downs. He's been good at trading for under the radar guys (Raisel Iglesias, O'Hoppe), or signing those types of guys (Estevez). He's spend more on the bullpen than any other position, has added four starters in free agency... Syndergaard, Lorenzen, Quintana, and Anderson. He's traded for Alex Cobb (and Giolito) as well. But none of these guys are good signings or trades or have left a lasting impact on the pitching staff. His big offense moves have been Brandon Drury, Hunter Renfroe, Dexter Fowler and Jose Iglesias.

Other than on relief pitching, only Drury has been a multi-year commitment. This is why I give him a C- (maybe even a D+ on closer examination).. for Free Agents. But his Drafting as a solid B, pretty much balances this out. He's not been great on trades, but he's made as many great ones as poor ones, and a lot of the others are just meh. Hence the overall C+ grade.

Eppler was not good at drafting, though he found some good players. I was gonna give him Fletcher but that was the interim, Matt Klentak / Bill Stoneman 2015 draft. (Ward and Walsh were also found in that draft). Thaiss has proven to be a major leaguer, (though only at Catcher) and Marsh was a good pick. Adell is still frustrating, and Adams is a bust. Canning was a good selection, and Detmers was as well. Will Wilson was a bust. As far as Free Agents, or big time signings, there were definitely more, Ohtani alone pushed Eppler to an A, as did Trout's Extension, (I even liked the Upton extension) but a lot of the mid tier guys they signed were not good and he was constantly searching for starting pitching, due to injuries, an untimely death, and some poor performance. His free agents, I still gave a B+, even though Rendon pushes it down...that was dictated by Arte, per reports...Maybe he just gets a B on free agent signings...

Simmons was a good trade, Bundy was good but giving up Bradish sucks. Overall his trades were mediocre as well. Maybe his trades are a straight C. If you average B & C and a D- it's a C-.

We need a GM who does A quality work, in all three facets. And stays out of the clubhouse/manager responsibilities.

 

 

[Angelsjunky]

^Weird, I haven't thought of the name "Hunter Renfroe" even once this season. Didn't even know he was on the Royals and doing his usual thing.

I hear what you are saying about free agent spending, but I'll come back and hammer my same point again and again: They need to minimize it as much as possible until they build up a solid homegrown (and cheap) team. I think a few small to moderate contracts are ok, but only if they aren't too big and are flippable at the deadline for prospects.

So for me, the biggest mistakes the Angels have made over the last 15 years are largely of the same kind: trying to turn a bad or mediocre team into a contender by a big splash or two. Such contracts should only be risked when the team is already good.

[AngelsLakersFan]

None of these guys deserve any defense: Arte, Perry, Billy, Jerry, Tony... wtf is with all the y's... bring in some people with grown up names for christ's sake.

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once and awhile. Every year we are treated to a worse team but a better set of excuses. We are coming up on just about 15 years of disappointment. It's not bad luck. It's not being disadvantaged. It's the organization. They're all a bunch of losers. At least Jerry had the balls to quit, the rest of them seem content to continue running the team into the ground as long as they do whatever it takes to convince Arte to keep them around another year.

[stormngt]

On 7/30/2024 at 7:35 PM, Angelsjunky said:

I imagine GMing is a bit of a trap...you sort of have to build a track record of success. Meaning, if he doesn't extend with the Angels, he probably isn't offered a job elsewhere. Other teams will look at the Angels and associate him with the travesty that is our ball club. He could take a demotion, I suppose, and work for a better club. But he might be better off trying to turn this ship around...if given the opportunity, which is far from certain.

It didnt hurt Dipshit and Eppler

[samwum]

10 hours ago, Hubs said:

Everyone bashes Eppler but who was a better GM, he or Perry? Neither made the playoffs. 

We can blame this on Arte interfering, but short of the one vetoed trade with the Dodgers, which turned out well, was there any other evidence showing he interfered with his GM? He is to blame for not paying a legit GM salary or hiring enough front office folks, that is for sure.

And it is time for a new direction. 

But Eppler vs. Minasian isn't the slam dunk the Perry Stans would have you believe.

Eppler had the offseason preceding the 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, and 2020 seasons. He had the same drafts and deadlines.

Minasian has had the offseason preceding the 2021, 2022, 2023, and 2024 seasons. He has had the same drafts and deadlines.

2015-2016- In the offseason before the 2016 season, Eppler traded for Andrelton Simmons, signed Geovany Soto to replace Iannetta, and traded for Yunel Escobar to replace David Freese at the hot corner. A lot of other journeymen and mediocre signings. Highlights of the draft were Matt Thaiss, Brandon Marsh and Chris Rodriguez. At the deadline he acquired Alex Meyer and Ricky Nolasco for Hector Santiago. 

2016-2017- In this offseason before 2017 season, he traded for Cameron Maybin, Martín Maldonado, Danny Espinosa and signed Ben Revere, Yusmiero Petit, Dustin Ackley and Luis Valbuena. The trade deadline was uneventful, but they claimed Justin Upton on waivers at the August waiver deadline. He drafted Jo Adell and Griffin Canning. 

2017-2018 - In the offseason before 2018 season, they certainly made a splash. Signed Shohei Ohtani & Zack Cozart, traded for Ian Kinsler and Jabari Blash. Drafted Jordyn Adams, Kyle Bradish, Andrew Wantz and Austin Warren. At the deadline they sold Kinsler for Ty Buttrey. Mike Scioscia forcibly retired.

2018-2019 - In the offseason before 2019, he signed Matt Harvey, Trevor Cahill, Cody Allen, Jonathan Lucroy and Justin Bour. Traded for Luis García, Traded for Tommy LaStella, Chris Stratton, Dillon Peters and John Curtiss. He claimed Kevan Smith and a few other guys. Drafted Will Wilson, Jack Kochanowicz, Davis Daniel and Kyren Paris. Signed Mike Trout to a 360M extension. Picked up Max Stassi and Patrick Sandoval at the deadline. Brad Ausmus was the manager pick, fired after one season.

2019-2020 - In the offseason before 2020, he signed Anthony Rendon, Julio Teahran, Jason Castro. Acquired Dylan Bundy (for Kyle Bradish) claimed Mike Mayers and Jose Quijada. Traded away Cozart and Wilson for Cash. They traded away LaStella, Goodwin, and Castro at the deadline and got next to nothing back (Packy Naughton, Franklin Barretto) Drafted Detmers in a shortened draft. Signed Maddon to be manager.

Overall it's very mediocre, but there were some really good moves. Eppler really didn't draft well, That would be a D+/D and that was his undoing. The Angels were sellers or stood pat at every deadline, so we never saw them acquire anyone. He didn't make a lot of impactful deals at the deadline, but he didnt mess anything up beyond repair. He made some great free agent signings (Ohtani, Trout extension) and some bad ones (Rendon can't stay healthy). Upton was good for a while until he wasn't. Overall C-/D+ I suppose. 

Minasian came in with a youthful vigor and tried to shake up the place, but he hasn't done that well in 4 seasons at the helm. His first year, in the 2020-2021 offseason, he spent modestly on free agents. Jose Quintana, Kurt Suzuki, Alex Claudio. Traded for Raisel Iglesias, which is probably his best trade. Traded for Jose Iglesias, Dexter Fowler, Alex Cobb, and Jack Mayfield. Signed Tony Watson and Steve CIschek in Spring Training. Traded Andrew Heaney at the 2021 deadline. Drafted 20 pitchers, but three full seasons later, only Sam Bachman and Chase Silseth have made any appearances in the majors. A lot of these guys were shipped off in trades.

In the 2021-2022 offseason, Signed Noah Syndergaard, resigned Iglesias, signed Aaron Loup and Michael Lorenzen. Fired Maddon during the season after a good start and then a losing streak. Hired Phil Nevin.  At the 2022 deadline he traded Iglesias and got nearly zero return. Traded Brandon Marsh for Logan O'Hoppe which was good for both sides. Traded Syndergaard for Moniak. Drafted Zach Neto, Ben Joyce, Victor Mederos, Caden Dana and others. 

In the 2022-2023 offseason he inexplicably rehired Phil Nevin then signed Tyler Anderson, Brandon Drury, Carlos Estevez, Matt Moore, Justin Garza, and Brett Phillips. Traded for Renfroe and Gio Urshela. Then Traded for Mike Moustakas in June. Had a disastrous deadline, trading for Giolito and Lopez for top prospects Edgar Quero and Ky Bush. Also Traded for CJ Cron and Randal Grichuck, then put everyone on waivers three weeks later. Drafted Nolan Schanuel, and paid him full slot, a few other guys who are doing good in the minors (Redfield, Fontanelle), but have already had some high round misses (Alberto Rios, Chris Clark).

In the 2023-2024 offseason, hired Ron Washington, and then he signed a lot of relievers, Luis Garcia again, Matt Moore again, Adam Cimber, Zach Plesac, Jose Cisnero and Robert Stephenson. Stephenson needed TJ before season started. Traded Max Stassi, David Fletcher, for Evan White for some reason. At the deadline, he shipped off Estevez and Garcia for a few decent prospects and some organizational filler. Drafted Christian Moore, Ryan Johnson, and Chris Cortez. Drafted TGA with a big bonus in the 11th round. Failed to sign Ryan Prager in the third round. 

Overall, Minsasian has not spent a large contract on a significant free agent, and while he's had some good signings, he really hasn't done anything well here. I'd give him a solid C or C-. He's drafted well, which is probably a B+ as he's also made some weird draft moves. But he seems to do ok. Buying at the deadline is a solid F. He did terrible in his one deadline buy. Selling at the deadline, an A...with just the O'Hoppe Trade. Overall Trades I would give a B-, as there are some really good ones but some really bad ones as well.

So he's a B-/C+ GM as opposed to Eppler's C-/D+.

 

 

 

I appreciate the in-depth analysis, but I think you really glossed over the state of the organization when Eppler arrived versus when Minasian arrived.

People forget that when Dipoto left, pundits talked about our farm system being possibly the worst of all-time.

Eppler hard-core rebuilt for 3-4 years, and ultimately fell short.

Minasian inherited a team that was supposed to be entering a competitive window.

Eppler was tasked with rebuilding a broken organization.

Minasian was tasked with taking a semi-rebuilt team to the next level.

Eppler didn't get to use Dipoto's work (there was none).

Minasian got to use Eppler's work.

And today we're worse than when Eppler got here.

 

 

 

 

And also, how much is it worth to play tick tack toe breaking down individual moves, considering Eppler signed us the best player in the history of organized baseball?

 

 

[samwum]

5 hours ago, Hubs said:

Look, Perry has his pros and cons, and for me the big con (besides his interference with the manager as described in Maddon's book) is a lack of quality free agent spending, as pretty much all of his free agent signings have either been disasters or have had ups and downs. He's been good at trading for under the radar guys (Raisel Iglesias, O'Hoppe), or signing those types of guys (Estevez). He's spend more on the bullpen than any other position, has added four starters in free agency... Syndergaard, Lorenzen, Quintana, and Anderson. He's traded for Alex Cobb (and Giolito) as well. But none of these guys are good signings or trades or have left a lasting impact on the pitching staff. His big offense moves have been Brandon Drury, Hunter Renfroe, Dexter Fowler and Jose Iglesias.

Other than on relief pitching, only Drury has been a multi-year commitment. This is why I give him a C- (maybe even a D+ on closer examination).. for Free Agents. But his Drafting as a solid B, pretty much balances this out. He's not been great on trades, but he's made as many great ones as poor ones, and a lot of the others are just meh. Hence the overall C+ grade.

Eppler was not good at drafting, though he found some good players. I was gonna give him Fletcher but that was the interim, Matt Klentak / Bill Stoneman 2015 draft. (Ward and Walsh were also found in that draft). Thaiss has proven to be a major leaguer, (though only at Catcher) and Marsh was a good pick. Adell is still frustrating, and Adams is a bust. Canning was a good selection, and Detmers was as well. Will Wilson was a bust. As far as Free Agents, or big time signings, there were definitely more, Ohtani alone pushed Eppler to an A, as did Trout's Extension, (I even liked the Upton extension) but a lot of the mid tier guys they signed were not good and he was constantly searching for starting pitching, due to injuries, an untimely death, and some poor performance. His free agents, I still gave a B+, even though Rendon pushes it down...that was dictated by Arte, per reports...Maybe he just gets a B on free agent signings...

Simmons was a good trade, Bundy was good but giving up Bradish sucks. Overall his trades were mediocre as well. Maybe his trades are a straight C. If you average B & C and a D- it's a C-.

We need a GM who does A quality work, in all three facets. And stays out of the clubhouse/manager responsibilities.

 

 

 

I think you're really understating Eppler's player acquisition skills.

He stunk in the free agency market. 

Most of the time he was playing by the rules of 1/yr deals only so I want to give him some benefit, but Rendon is fucking awful -- fuck Eppler during free agency.

The trades and waiver pick ups though.... oh my god.

• Maldonado (expiring contract) for Patrick Sandoval
• CJ Cron (expiring contract) for Luis Rengifo
• Waiver claim Tommy La Stella 
  • All-Star
  • 2.5 WAR in 1.5 seasons as an Angel
  • Brandon Drury 1.2 WAR in 1.5 seasons as an Angel
  • Are we forgetting the pain of Tyler Wade, Matt Duffy, Jack Mayfield, or Phil Gosselin?
• Waiver claim Brian Goodwin 
  • 1.9 fWAR in 1.5 seasons as a Halo. 
  • Mickey Moniak 1.2 fWAR in 2 seasons as a Halo.
• Waiver claim Hansel Robles 
  • 1.9 WAR as a Halo just in 2019.
  • Carlos Estevez 1.9 WAR as a Halo in 1.5 seasons.

 

I mean for fuck's sake, Eppler claimed Felix Pena off waivers. He threw 7 innings for probably the most feel-good no-hitter in the history of the league. And generated 1.5 fWAR as a SP in 2018, compared to Tyler Anderson's 1.1 fWAR in 2023.

I'm leaving out a shit-ton of guys.

Andrelton Simmons got MVP votes in 2017 and 2018. Shohei Ohtani is the best player of all-time. Nothing was given up for these two.

Who the fuck on this 2024 roster is getting MVP votes?

If you compare Minasian and Eppler's minor and pro player acquisitions.

Eppler claimed some fuckstick off waivers who was better than Perry's prized pickups.

While adding 2 generational talents for zero cost.

 

 

 

 

 

[samwum]

7 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

Anyhow, after the initial disappointment that Perry didn't completely revamp the minor leagues, I've softened a bit, especially with @Jeff Fletcher's clarification that the offers for the others were underwhelming.

Both packages for Estevez and Garcia were rather terrific - not in terms of the flashiness or upside of the prospects, but in terms of the total he got back for two guys on expiring contracts. And there are some intriguing prospects there - every single one has potential, and seems well-chosen. Klassen is the potential jewel, but Aldegheri seems like a high floor #4-5, Lugo at least a useful bench guy, Kavadas a nice depth bat, Zeferjahn a possible bullpen in the near future, and even Vargas is a nice dice-roll.

So, at the least, he did something towards improving future prospects for the org, even if it wasn't the big haul or two that we hoped for. One good and one pretty good haul is still going in the right direction.

This is what I completely disagree with.

Who gives a shit if the offers for Anderson/Ward/Rengifo were underwhelming?

Our old players aren't good enough for us to be competitive.

Our young players might be.

Perry's job at the trade deadline was to trade the old players for young players.

There is a job to be done. If you can't negotiate for top prospects, then you find underrated ones.

 

 

 

 

[arch stanton]

5 minutes ago, samwum said:

This is what I completely disagree with.

Who gives a shit if the offers for Anderson/Ward/Rengifo were underwhelming?

Our old players aren't good enough for us to be competitive.

Our young players might be.

Perry's job at the trade deadline was to trade the old players for young players.

There is a job to be done. If you can't negotiate for top prospects, then you find underrated ones.

 

 

 

 

These 3 are not on expiring contracts. There's still an off season and another trade deadline for them to be on the blocks

[samwum]

16 minutes ago, arch stanton said:

These 3 are not on expiring contracts. There's still an off season and another trade deadline for them to be on the blocks

I appreciate where you're coming from, but players don't gain value while they lose team control and get paid higher salaries.

[arch stanton]

3 minutes ago, samwum said:

I appreciate where you're coming from, but players don't gain value while they lose team control and get paid higher salaries.

But trades aren't based solely on the value of the players on one side. You have to consider the needs of the other teams, the other available options, and the possibility of making them part of a bigger package. In the end I can't see that not trading them in a market that wasn't providing value as we just saw will turn out much better than trading them in any of the upcoming windows

[Angelsjunky]

7 hours ago, samwum said:

This is what I completely disagree with.

Who gives a shit if the offers for Anderson/Ward/Rengifo were underwhelming?

Our old players aren't good enough for us to be competitive.

Our young players might be.

Perry's job at the trade deadline was to trade the old players for young players.

There is a job to be done. If you can't negotiate for top prospects, then you find underrated ones.

 

 

 

 

I get it - I was there, too, about 36 hours ago, and still veer in that direction. But even so, especially considering that the "old players" aren't on expiring contracts, there's still a baseline level of return, in terms of adequacy. You don't trade 40 starts of Tyler Anderson at a reasonable rate for a 35 FV guy, just because he's 34. Rengifo, in particular, should require a substantial return - not Jackson Holliday, obviously, but something good. Pillar, I think, had zero trade value - they probably weren't offered more than cash considerations, and then it gets into the human level. They've still got to run a ballclub made up of people. And Ward is at a low-point in value, so Perry might have felt that we know he's better than this, so didn't want to trade him for less than what he's actually capable of.

Strickland is a bit baffling, because I don't see why they couldn't have gotten something approaching the Garcia package. Not sure what happened there.

[Stradling]

7 hours ago, samwum said:

This is what I completely disagree with.

Who gives a shit if the offers for Anderson/Ward/Rengifo were underwhelming?

Our old players aren't good enough for us to be competitive.

Our young players might be.

Perry's job at the trade deadline was to trade the old players for young players.

There is a job to be done. If you can't negotiate for top prospects, then you find underrated ones.

 

 

 

 

Sorry but no. His job isn’t to trade old players for new ones and of those three players you mentioned one is old.  His job is to improve the team which he’s failed to do. But you don’t just trade Anderson or Ward or Rengifo if there is no net gain. 

[ScruffytheJanitor]

My take is that Perry is probably a decent GM for a normal rebuilding team that is fully committed to it. I think his drafts and trades are just good enough to think that he could helm a 3-5 year organization rebuilding plan and have a top 5-ish prospect list when he's done. And I do think that the young core of OHoppe- Neto-Regifo-Moore-Schanuel-Dana-Detmers-Joyce has been a pretty solid start given the constraints he's been working with. 

HOWEVER -- he strikes me as a below average GM for a competative team. His MLB level trades and his FA spending (maybe excepting the Bullpen) have left something to be desired. 

The major issue is that the team just can't seem to commit to a vision. We keep Ohtani... then don't resign him. We trade a couple pieces at the deadline... and hold on to the most valuable bits. We trade some of our best prospects... then let the guys we traded for go without much effort to keep them. We rush guys to the Majors... then fail to add free agents to fill the holes we have left. 

It's not clear whether this is due to Minasian not having a clear vision or because he can't get Arte to commit to whatever vision he has, either way Perry isn't the right guy here. Without a clear roadmap, it's hard to tell if we are making progress. Without a destination, we may as well be walking in a circle. 

I think most of us would be in favor of dropping all pretense, cutting the fat, selling anything that's not tied down, and really committing to the rebuild. Heck, even the White Sox seem to understand this. The Front office, for whatever reason, seems to be avoiding this.   By purposefully trying to avoid becoming the white sox, we are dangerously close to becoming the Rockies by accident.