The jury's in on Perry Minasian

[REDneck]

Organizational gross negligence...again!

Two trade deadlines in a row...imagine the influx of talent that could have been infused.

So I'm supposed to root for this shit?

[Angelsjunky]

2 hours ago, failos said:

Dude what?

don’t you mean the jury’s out for Perry?

even our trolls suck ass

Oh, the irony.

Anyhow, I meant verdict, but my wires crossed, probably due to utter bafflement. But you know this. 

[Slegnaac]

If Perry gets offered a 1 year extension with a club option for a 2nd, does he take it?

[Angelsjunky]

8 minutes ago, Slegnaac said:

If Perry gets offered a 1 year extension with a club option for a 2nd, does he take it?

I imagine GMing is a bit of a trap...you sort of have to build a track record of success. Meaning, if he doesn't extend with the Angels, he probably isn't offered a job elsewhere. Other teams will look at the Angels and associate him with the travesty that is our ball club. He could take a demotion, I suppose, and work for a better club. But he might be better off trying to turn this ship around...if given the opportunity, which is far from certain.

[samwum]

12 minutes ago, Slegnaac said:

If Perry gets offered a 1 year extension with a club option for a 2nd, does he take it?

The Perry stans will clutch their pearls but there is 0 chance he gets a GM gig in the near future outside of Anaheim. If he doesn't keep going here, it's back to ATL as a busboy for AA. Maybe he would like that better than here, but doubtful.

[samwum]

3 hours ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

Looks like we're gonna have everyone clamoring for the angels to play musical GMs again. Firing and re-hiring the front office every 4 years is not a winning strategy.

Fatigue from changing GMs isn't a legitimate reason to keep a clearly incompetent GM, just like having bad exes wouldn't be a legitimate reason to continue dating a bad woman.

 

[Angelsjunky]

3 hours ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

Uhhh at 1 point jahmi jones was the best prospect…

I said franchise, not minor leagues. Meaning, the entire org as a whole.

When Jahmai Jones was the best prospect, Mike Trout was the best player since Barry Bonds and 25-26 years old, with no signs of breaking down. Oh, and it was around the time the Angels signed Shohei Ohtani. They had only suffered through two or three bad years, and there was still hope of turning things around with the best player in the game, the hot international signing, and also some promising prospects being drafted (Marsh, Adell, Adams in succession in 2016-18). So up through 2018 or so, those first few Eppler years, there was still reason to hope that the trajectory would start moving in the right direction.

I think by the end of the window of 2019-21 is when it become more clear that the franchise wasn't just struggling, but floundering. But then there was Perry, and he'd bring in fresh new ideas, straight from the Braves front office! Oh well.

So yeah, right now, the franchise is in the worst place I've ever seen it. I suppose the absolute nadir was Shohei signing with the Dodgers. As bad as this year has been, at least there's some positive elements to consider: some of the young guys, for instance. So in hindsight, 2023 and the offseason might be the absolute worst, but 2024 is close enough to feel similar, and we're far from out of the woods to feel that the Dark Age is over, or even ending. We'll know more in 2025, if we're going in the right direction.

[ScottT]

It's hard to believe they couldn't find something decent for Anderson, Rengifo, and Ward.   

Not that I trust em to make good moves, but damn.

[Taylor]

1 hour ago, Angelsjunky said:

Oh, the irony.

Anyhow, I meant verdict, but my wires crossed, probably due to utter bafflement. But you know this. 

I think your metaphor was correct.

”The jury’s out” = the jury is still deliberating, and therefore we can’t draw a conclusion yet

”The jury’s in” = the jury has returned and delivered their verdict

Source: I write.

[Tank]

12 minutes ago, ScottT said:

It's hard to believe they couldn't find something decent for Anderson, Rengifo, and Ward.   

Not that I trust em to make good moves, but damn.

this is the great unknown, and it happens every year when fans are less than satisfied with the lack of deals.

we know perry isn't gun-shy on making deals, but you have to wonder what kept him from pulling the trigger on more than just two relievers. 

[ScottT]

4 minutes ago, Tank said:

this is the great unknown, and it happens every year when fans are less than satisfied with the lack of deals.

we know perry isn't gun-shy on making deals, but you have to wonder what kept him from pulling the trigger on more than just two relievers. 

Fans are less than satisfied with a lot more than that.   

[samwum]

52 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

I said franchise, not minor leagues. Meaning, the entire org as a whole.

When Jahmai Jones was the best prospect, Mike Trout was the best player since Barry Bonds and 25-26 years old, with no signs of breaking down. Oh, and it was around the time the Angels signed Shohei Ohtani. They had only suffered through two or three bad years, and there was still hope of turning things around with the best player in the game, the hot international signing, and also some promising prospects being drafted (Marsh, Adell, Adams in succession in 2016-18). So up through 2018 or so, those first few Eppler years, there was still reason to hope that the trajectory would start moving in the right direction.

I think by the end of the window of 2019-21 is when it become more clear that the franchise wasn't just struggling, but floundering. But then there was Perry, and he'd bring in fresh new ideas, straight from the Braves front office! Oh well.

So yeah, right now, the franchise is in the worst place I've ever seen it. I suppose the absolute nadir was Shohei signing with the Dodgers. As bad as this year has been, at least there's some positive elements to consider: some of the young guys, for instance. So in hindsight, 2023 and the offseason might be the absolute worst, but 2024 is close enough to feel similar, and we're far from out of the woods to feel that the Dark Age is over, or even ending. We'll know more in 2025, if we're going in the right direction.

Funny to talk about Jahmai Jones. 

Someday we will be ready for the conversation of Eppler vs. Minasian in how they inherited the franchise versus left franchise. 

[samwum]

34 minutes ago, Tank said:

this is the great unknown, and it happens every year when fans are less than satisfied with the lack of deals.

we know perry isn't gun-shy on making deals, but you have to wonder what kept him from pulling the trigger on more than just two relievers. 

My theory is that the Angels have a very weak minor league scouting program, which requires Perry to bank on general/out-sourced prospect scouting ratings.

Perry had to get highly ranked prospects for Anderson/Rengifo/Ward, otherwise the story would be he got fleeced.

No bueno for a man with an expiring contract.

The Angels also aren't good enough at minor league scouting for Perry to find underrated prospects.

This is why you don't keep on a lame duck GM in a rebuild.

They don't have the job security to do the dirty work.

[johndw52]

My gut feeling tells me Arte's fingerprints are all over this latest debacle. It happened with Ohtani and it's happening again. Arte loathes the word rebuilding. Its all about butts in the seats now.  As far as Perry is concerned most other orgs understand the constraints that Arte has imposed upon him. I think he'll survive this horror show and land a GM position somewhere. 

[aznhockeyguy]

5 hours ago, Ron Mexico said:

I don't blame Perry I blame the POS Arte. Perry today totally sounded like he can't wait to leave 

This, everyone needs to blame Arte.  Arte's the boss of Perry.  Arte has shown affinity to hitters over pitchers, which is why he allowed Perry to deal Estevez and Garcia, but not the hitters.  Hitters are the ones the crowd sees everyday and come to the ballpark for and as a marketer, Arte likes that.  Even if the offers were good for Rengifo, Ward, et. al. wouldn't surprise me if Arte said don't deal them under any circumstances.  Anderson, wasn't highly rated by the Front offices.  Possibly he gets moved in the offseason.  Soft tossing lefty's aren't very sought after from playoff teams anymore.

 

  

1 hour ago, johndw52 said:

My gut feeling tells me Arte's fingerprints are all over this latest debacle. It happened with Ohtani and it's happening again. Arte loathes the word rebuilding. Its all about butts in the seats now.  As far as Perry is concerned most other orgs understand the constraints that Arte has imposed upon him. I think he'll survive this horror show and land a GM position somewhere. 

 

It happened to Perry's two previous predecessors.  Both had some good moments for their teams after they left the Angels. 

[Hufflepuff]

8 hours ago, greginpsca said:

Anderson, Ward and Rengifo have value to other teams, and could have actually brought back some usefull pieces.

I think Anderson, Ward, and Rengifo are more useful to us next year than unproven prospects. I don’t think the value for these guys was there. All 3 are proven mlb regulars.

C- O’Hoppe     3B-?

1B-Schanuel    OF-Ward

2B-Rengifo      OF-?

SS-Neto          OF-Jo Adell

DH-Trout        UTL: ?

Everyone rocking a .700 plus OPS. Not the worst offense in baseball by any means. 
P-Soriano   P-Anderson  P-Canning

P-Detmers  P-Silseth      P-Need 1 more 

Caden Dana

King George 

Need more depth 

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

7 hours ago, ScottT said:

It's hard to believe they couldn't find something decent for Anderson, Rengifo, and Ward.   

Not that I trust em to make good moves, but damn.

I agree.  Maybe the rest of the league wants to keep them as Failos, too

[Angelsjunky]

8 hours ago, Taylor said:

I think your metaphor was correct.

”The jury’s out” = the jury is still deliberating, and therefore we can’t draw a conclusion yet

”The jury’s in” = the jury has returned and delivered their verdict

Source: I write.

That's what I thought too, but Failo confused me further. WTF.

[m0nkey]

8 hours ago, aznhockeyguy said:

This, everyone needs to blame Arte.  Arte's the boss of Perry.  Arte has shown affinity to hitters over pitchers, which is why he allowed Perry to deal Estevez and Garcia, but not the hitters.  Hitters are the ones the crowd sees everyday and come to the ballpark for and as a marketer, Arte likes that.  Even if the offers were good for Rengifo, Ward, et. al. wouldn't surprise me if Arte said don't deal them under any circumstances.  

 

With all due respect, I don't know how many people would have thought "oh I was going to go to the Angels game today, but since Ward, Rengifo, and/or Pillar aren't on the team anymore, they lack the star power so now I won't go."

They didn't get traded because Perry held out for too much or teams just didn't value them as much as we think.

[Stradling]

No one is going to the ballpark to watch Anderson, Ward and Rengifo play baseball.  They are just players on a team.  Arte is losing the actual baseball fan because of how the team is being ran.  The casual fan is coming to the game regardless of whether there is a rebuild or not.  The team is years away from having a bandwagon.  Because of all of that, I highly doubt Arte had anything to do with what didn’t happen at the trade deadline.  

[Angelsjunky]

1 hour ago, m0nkey said:

With all due respect, I don't know how many people would have thought "oh I was going to go to the Angels game today, but since Ward, Rengifo, and/or Pillar aren't on the team anymore, they lack the star power so now I won't go."

They didn't get traded because Perry held out for too much or teams just didn't value them as much as we think.

Wrong. there are at least 6 people in in the Los Angeles metro area that wouldn't have gone to games if not for those three.

And all of them are relatives.

Edited July 31 by Angelsjunky

[greginpsca]

1 hour ago, m0nkey said:

With all due respect, I don't know how many people would have thought "oh I was going to go to the Angels game today, but since Ward, Rengifo, and/or Pillar aren't on the team anymore, they lack the star power so now I won't go."

They didn't get traded because Perry held out for too much or teams just didn't value them as much as we think.

Winning puts butts in the seats.

[Adam]

The worst organization in professional sports. Literally 0 redeeming qualities. Sure O'Hoppe and Neto are promising, but neither is a super star. 

Hopefully they expand the playoffs again in the next 5-10 years

[katie]

2 hours ago, m0nkey said:

With all due respect, I don't know how many people would have thought "oh I was going to go to the Angels game today, but since Ward, Rengifo, and/or Pillar aren't on the team anymore, they lack the star power so now I won't go."

They didn't get traded because Perry held out for too much or teams just didn't value them as much as we think.

I saw someone else mention that the crowd was small last night and insinuated this. If you waited until 3 to decide, you probably already had tickets so how does that “stick it to Arte”

[Kendo36]

I mentioned in other posts but Tyler Anderson is not a highly desirable piece. Analytics hate him. And I got laughed at. We probably didn't get an offer that was better than having him for next season on a club friendly deal. Ward is controllable until 2027 and with Adell and Moniak sucking, he's more important. Rengifo might be our starting 3rd baseman next year. It's not as much of a fail as people are making it out to be. They can all be traded at the deadline next year if we are out of it and give us less holes to fill in the offseason.