How do we fix this?

[angelsfan100]

I guess I don't believe anymore 

[Tank]

you have to wade through a lot of crappy years until it finally turns around. it's hard to see the top when you're mired in the mud underwater, but eventually it turns around. 

think in big terms, like at least five years minimum. 

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, angelsfan100 said:

I guess I don't believe anymore 

Draft well, trade assets, develop prospects.

[angelsfan100]

3 minutes ago, Tank said:

you have to wade through a lot of crappy years until it finally turns around. it's hard to see the top when you're mired in the mud underwater, but eventually it turns around. 

think in big terms, like at least five years minimum. 

Yeah makes sense. I'm not jumping ship by all means, in fact I will love this team till I die like everyone here. But man this is hard to watch. 

[Tank]

1 minute ago, angelsfan100 said:

But man this is hard to watch. 

yep. that sums up the 60s and 70s pretty well. 

[fan_since79]

I was labeled a troll for suggesting a 5-10 year rebuild. Labeled by you-know-who, who loves that emoji.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

Trade everything, draft, development and bring in the tweeners and eventually a few Super Stars with the kids after they have 800-1200 at bats.

[Jay]

We won.

-- @Lou

 

[T.G.]

Arte need to sell.

 

Obviously 

[Angels 1961]

Continue with development of young players. Resign Rengifo to 3 year deal. Trade Ward, Anderson, Sandoval, Canning and BP for prospects. Maybe Drury can come back and play well for a month so you can trade him. Get younger and just maybe find a few prospects who can help in 2025 or 2026. 

[yamsi12]

Only way to fix this is from the top down. A Stalin style purge of upper management ….including our “Stalin”.

wont happen but we can dream.

[Ron Mexico]

30 minutes ago, yamsi12 said:

Only way to fix this is from the top down. A Stalin style purge of upper management ….including our “Stalin”.

wont happen but we can dream.

Yup nothing will change While Arte owns this team 

[Erstad Grit]

We could have made strides last year by trading Ohtani and not trading for a broken Gio.

We have some players that could net some prospects this year, but I think Arte needs to sell and the new owner have an immediate spending spree to cover up our lack of depth

[Duren, Duren]

New management, ideally with new ownership is needed. The entire system needs an overhaul. And a long term disciplined plan. 

But as things stand, the most that can be hoped for are some shrewd trades prioritizing solid prospects and progress from the younger core.

But the season does continue. And maybe, at least for the loyal fans, a respectable and competitive game by game showing. Even as likely underdogs in every series. 

 

[Blarg]

Everyone says they want the rebuild but nobody wants the cellar dweller record to score draft picks. There is very little trade value in the roster so there should be little expectation that is going to be a quick fix.

[Duren, Duren]

Washington was supposed to be primarily a teacher and introduce a more dynamic philosophy. So far, a third of a season isn't enough to judge by. But the results are mixed. 

The team runs more, but makes tons of base running errors. Managerial decisions are a factor, but I would blame some of the players too. They just don't seem to have good instincts or baseball savvy to assess an ongoing play. And often seem indecisive.  Youth could be part of the reason. Especially those with minimal minor league experience. Teaching and coaching can help, but the talent and instincts need to be there to begin with. 

On defense the same issues keep resurfacing. Fundamental ball handling, smooth  execution, indecision, positioning. Teaching and coaching can help, but if the skills and confidence are lacking then there is only so much that can be improved upon. 

The team still depends on the home run to score. That hasn't changed. Personnel is a big factor. All the teaching and coaching won't change the approach of veterans with careers based on trying to power each at bat. Youngsters should be more receptive.  But certain situations require small ball basics. Even the most grizzled veterans should be able to execute a bunt, hit and run, go the other way, and so on in some situations. Non productive outs have been killing this team for a long time. I don't see much progress here though Washington has tried to have a more dynamic approach. It just hasn't worked out as hoped for so far. Again, talent, willingness to change habits, confidence are factors. 

Washington wasn't a pitching oriented coach, so his coaches have more responsibilities for mechanics and philosophy. But he does make the game decisions about how long to leave pitchers in and the bullpen sequencing. With major advice from the pitching coach of course. A repetitive mantra, but it comes down more to talent and confidence more than anything else.

Washington seems to be good at encouraging players and working on their confidence. But he's dealing with a compromised roster. Limited in talent as well as experience in many cases. And early on he has shown to be stubborn in some instances. But this could be part of his learning experience. After all, he had no background with this organization and these players. 

The reality is that neither he or anyone else can work miracles. So with lowered expectations I just hope that by the last part of the season we do see progress. Better play, fewer mistakes, confidence that they can win more close games when the chances are there. 

In the end,he is likely a transitional manager. Probably intended to stabilize things for a few years. While the roster ideally is restocked with younger players who will respond to his style. 

 

 

 

[floplag]

Youre going to hear a lot of very generic statements here that amount to nothing.

The reality is bleak.  We are bottom 5 in the bigs record wise and on the farm at this point, there is no quick fix.  WE are not a couple guys away, were half a roster away.

This is not going to get better in the short term, anyone not going to be around in 5ish years, is expendable and should be dealt for younger guys that will be at that time.   Yes, everyone.   Unless for some reason Trout WANTS to be part of that which i think would be a huge mistake.  We will not be relevant till hes to old to matter at this point.   Ward, Rengifo, Anderson... Anyone that has value, for the best you can get for them thats part of that future. 

And you do it now, get in front of the other sellers, waiting only makes more people available.  If you have to include some of the better young talent we already at the ML level to get better younger ones back, you do it.   No one is going to want to do that i know, but youre not getting top kids for what we have to offer.  

You must go full rebuild... not tippie toeing around it, go full Hou/Bal and suck for 3-5 years (not like we arent already), get better draft picks and get some people who know how to actually develop them in here as what we haven obviously cant. 

I could support that, at least it makes sense, which nothing weve done in the last 5+ years has. 

[Slegnaac]

I hope "they" are also considering managerial candidates for the 2026 season.  If Washington was 5 - 10 years younger extending him would make sense. 

[Taylor]

 

 

[fan_since79]

6 hours ago, Blarg said:

Everyone says they want the rebuild but nobody wants the cellar dweller record to score draft picks. There is very little trade value in the roster so there should be little expectation that is going to be a quick fix.

Few would mind a few seasons of 100+ losses if it generated top draft picks who became All-Star players that formed the core of playoff winners, like Baltimore and Houston, for example.

Get top talent into the farm, make some solid trades, build up a great rotation, better coaches, a good manager and GM, and our time will come.

Oh, and sell the team, Arte.

[TheLordofOuts]

I would start with a bottle of Jack Daniels

[Angelsjunky]

Even the best franchises go through cycles, down periods. The smart ones can minimize the length of the down periods, so they spend, say, 6-8 years contending, then 2-3 years rebuilding...or whatever, the point being that they're more "up" than "down."

Dumb franchises, like the Angels, fight against the cycle - when the team starts trending downward, they try to fix things with free agency. What usually happens, well, the Angels from 2010-24+ is a particularly bad example. They dead-cat bounced for a few years until 2015, but it was stalling the inevitable. You can keep a good team afloat indefinitely if you spend a lot and/or wisely, but while Angels spent a good amount, they didn't do so wisely.

How to fix the problem? I would say the key factors are:

• Stop spending money - at least within reason, and on huge, multi-year contracts. As a general rule, successful franchises avoid such contracts; they tend to use free agency as augmentation to an already good (largely home-grown) team. Even for the elite free agents, as a general rule it is best to only sign them to make a good team better, not to make a bad team good. The good news is that the Angels seem to be finally getting this.
• Invest in the farm - how many times do we have to say this? Obviously Arte isn't listening to us, but a healthy farm system is a huge factor in future success, and this means more money into scouting and development, which includes taking care of your minor leaguers. 
• Be patient - this is really part of both of the above, but deserves its own mention. We live in a quick-fix culture, which leads to all sorts of problems. People balk at the idea that it will take 5+ years to fix the franchise, but that's really not an unrealistic estimate. The team could get better sooner than that--if the current young players and prospects turn out better than we should probably realistically expect--and/or they have some luck with trades and drafting, but the point being, it takes a long time to rebuild from where the franchise is at: bad team, barren farm.
• Emphasize long-term over short-term - Again, part of the above but worth mentioning on its own. Let's say the Angels have a strong second half and/or have a better season next year, playing around .500. Choices should still be made in terms of long-term health. If the Angels go 79-83 next year (or whatever), don't start thinking "We're just a couple big splashes away from contending!" All choices should be made with the long-term in mind, which basically means no big splashes until the team shows a consistent trend of improvement. Meaning, if they go 79-83 next year, and 84-78 next year, then you start thinking about a big splash or two because you're at the point of being able to make a solid team better. The other side of this is being willing to sacrifice the near-term for the future. That means trading away and all players that you can this July, if they're not likely to be part of the team in 2026 and beyond. 

I'm sure there's more, but those are the key factors, imo.

 

[zenmaster]

There's only one way to begin to fix this, and that is unfortunately in God's hands.

[totdprods]

It's funny, the last couple of years I really wanted the Angels to cut the cord and not necessarily go total rebuild, but definitely move more valuable assets like Sandoval or Rengifo. I'm not against that now, but I also don't want them to try and 'rush' a rebuild by prematurely selling guys off. I still think this team could be a surprise contender come summer 2025, and if we go too far this deadline, that can be put in jeopardy. As it stands right now, I wouldn't sell off all of Ward, Rengifo, Canning and Sandoval this deadline. Maybe one. Maybe one arm, one bat. If the kids struggle a ton between now and July, deal them all. If they start playing even better, consider keeping these guys in the fold for next year.

Everything @Angelsjunky just said is the exact answer. Most of all, they need to pump as much money into the farm, facilities, scouting and coaching as possible. 

I'd also add they could consider what the Braves did this last winter...take on money (nothing huge) to get back prospects. 

[PattyD22]

4 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

Even the best franchises go through cycles, down periods. The smart ones can minimize the length of the down periods, so they spend, say, 6-8 years contending, then 2-3 years rebuilding...or whatever, the point being that they're more "up" than "down."

Dumb franchises, like the Angels, fight against the cycle - when the team starts trending downward, they try to fix things with free agency. What usually happens, well, the Angels from 2010-24+ is a particularly bad example. They dead-cat bounced for a few years until 2015, but it was stalling the inevitable. You can keep a good team afloat indefinitely if you spend a lot and/or wisely, but while Angels spent a good amount, they didn't do so wisely.

How to fix the problem? I would say the key factors are:

• Stop spending money - at least within reason, and on huge, multi-year contracts. As a general rule, successful franchises avoid such contracts; they tend to use free agency as augmentation to an already good (largely home-grown) team. Even for the elite free agents, as a general rule it is best to only sign them to make a good team better, not to make a bad team good. The good news is that the Angels seem to be finally getting this.
• Invest in the farm - how many times do we have to say this? Obviously Arte isn't listening to us, but a healthy farm system is a huge factor in future success, and this means more money into scouting and development, which includes taking care of your minor leaguers. 
• Be patient - this is really part of both of the above, but deserves its own mention. We live in a quick-fix culture, which leads to all sorts of problems. People balk at the idea that it will take 5+ years to fix the franchise, but that's really not an unrealistic estimate. The team could get better sooner than that--if the current young players and prospects turn out better than we should probably realistically expect--and/or they have some luck with trades and drafting, but the point being, it takes a long time to rebuild from where the franchise is at: bad team, barren farm.
• Emphasize long-term over short-term - Again, part of the above but worth mentioning on its own. Let's say the Angels have a strong second half and/or have a better season next year, playing around .500. Choices should still be made in terms of long-term health. If the Angels go 79-83 next year (or whatever), don't start thinking "We're just a couple big splashes away from contending!" All choices should be made with the long-term in mind, which basically means no big splashes until the team shows a consistent trend of improvement. Meaning, if they go 79-83 next year, and 84-78 next year, then you start thinking about a big splash or two because you're at the point of being able to make a solid team better. The other side of this is being willing to sacrifice the near-term for the future. That means trading away and all players that you can this July, if they're not likely to be part of the team in 2026 and beyond. 

I'm sure there's more, but those are the key factors, imo.

 

As usual @Angelsjunky, a quality post.  This pretty much sums it all up.