The Official (2024) Los Angeles Angels Trade Deadline Thread

[Angels 1961]

Trade need to be buyers now.

[HaloBronco]

1 hour ago, Angels 1961 said:

Trade need to be buyers now.

I really hope not. At this point they really need to go all in on the rebuild (stop with the patch fixes).... IMO 

So I would like them to be sellers. 

[Tank]

1 hour ago, Angels 1961 said:

Trade need to be buyers now.

they've done well this week, but they're still not a good team.

sell sell sell.

[Chuck]

Taylor Ward's stock is starting to decline. Poor defense and he's been garbage at the plat over his past 15 games .170/.333/.277

You hate to see it. 

[Taylor]

Just now, Chuck said:

Taylor Ward's stock is starting to decline. Poor defense and he's been garbage at the plat over his past 15 games .170/.333/.277

You hate to see it. 

I'm worried this will happen to Tyler Anderson too.

[Chuck]

Just now, Taylor said:

I'm worried this will happen to Tyler Anderson too.

Yeah, but he's been really steady. I am worried he gets injured more than him reverting back to his 2023 self. 

Back to Ward... It looks like Brent Rooker is going to be the best OF piece out there that a team trades for. 

[ArkyAngelsFan]

23 hours ago, Stradling said:

Because they were 1/2 game from a wild card spot and the team hadn’t sniffed the playoffs with Ohtani. 

I've read that many believe that Arte primarily because of the Asian advertising money he was getting.

Do you think that was a major reason he refused to trade him at the deadline when we were all but our of contention?

~ArkyAngelsFan~

[Chuck]

13 minutes ago, ArkyAngelsFan said:

I've read that many believe that Arte primarily because of the Asian advertising money he was getting.

Do you think that was a major reason he refused to trade him at the deadline when we were all but our of contention?

~ArkyAngelsFan~

I think it was both, them being close and going for it and that money he'd lose out the rest of the season. 

All of that said, it was too risky to bank on a playoff berth vs. losing him via FA and getting nothing back in return. 

The future of the club needed to be the priority. Not an outside shot at making the playoffs via a Wild Card berth.

[Stradling]

42 minutes ago, ArkyAngelsFan said:

I've read that many believe that Arte primarily because of the Asian advertising money he was getting.

Do you think that was a major reason he refused to trade him at the deadline when we were all but our of contention?

~ArkyAngelsFan~

Unless those advertising dollars are on monthly contracts (which I doubt) then the advertising dollars were already there. Also if they traded him at the deadline he’s off the hook for $12 million of Ohtani’s salary.  There’s virtually no chance Ohtani was bringing in $12 million in those 10 weeks. 

[BTH]

3 hours ago, Taylor said:

I'm worried this will happen to Tyler Anderson too.

I’m more concerned about it happening to Anderson, since his 4.66 FIP is way higher than his 2.37 ERA.

The peripherals suggest regression is coming.

Taylor Ward’s expected stats indicate he’s been unlucky. .334 wOBA vs. .374 xwOBA.

[greginpsca]

1 hour ago, Chuck said:

I think it was both, them being close and going for it and that money he'd lose out the rest of the season. 

All of that said, it was too risky to bank on a playoff berth vs. losing him via FA and getting nothing back in return. 

The future of the club needed to be the priority. Not an outside shot at making the playoffs via a Wild Card berth.

First sentence of line 3 says it all.

[Stradling]

1 hour ago, Chuck said:

I think it was both, them being close and going for it and that money he'd lose out the rest of the season. 

All of that said, it was too risky to bank on a playoff berth vs. losing him via FA and getting nothing back in return. 

The future of the club needed to be the priority. Not an outside shot at making the playoffs via a Wild Card berth.

Do you really think 2 months of Ohtani equals more than $12 million he got in salary for those 2 months?  Now if you said loss of possible playoff revenue I could get on board with that type of belief. And that outside chance was 1/2 of one game (behind the Yankees who also missed the playoffs) with the belief of Trout coming back (which didn’t happen) and upgrades to the rotation (Giolito) and the pen (Lopez). Obviously that plan failed but it made sense. 

[Hubs]

19 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Do you really think 2 months of Ohtani equals more than $12 million he got in salary for those 2 months?  Now if you said loss of possible playoff revenue I could get on board with that type of belief. And that outside chance was 1/2 of one game (behind the Yankees who also missed the playoffs) with the belief of Trout coming back (which didn’t happen) and upgrades to the rotation (Giolito) and the pen (Lopez). Obviously that plan failed but it made sense. 

No but the playoff revenue would've. Plus a taste of the playoffs and he may have come back. I was at the Toronto Series and we hung with them and a better manager may have won them all. 

Bad injury to Ward, and Trout not making it back, plus the utter failure of everyone acquired. A better GM would've made better deals. Sorry. I am clearly not a Perry fan, he's done well in the draft but thats it. One good trade (or actually two trades) does not a good GM make.

 

[Hubs]

2 minutes ago, Hubs said:

No but the playoff revenue would've. Plus a taste of the playoffs and he may have come back. I was at the Toronto Series and we hung with them and a better manager may have won them all. 

Bad injury to Ward, and Trout not making it back, plus the utter failure of everyone acquired. A better GM would've made better deals. Sorry. I am clearly not a Perry fan, he's done well in the draft but thats it. One good trade (or actually two trades) does not a good GM make.

 

Also, I was at the Detroit doubleheader the day prior to the Giolito trade. Ohtani being masterful in the complete game shut out in the AM game, and then having two HR in the nightcap. 

Would've been impossible to trade him after that outing. 

[T.G.]

Regarding Ohtani... Ohtani publicly stated that he didn't want to be traded and wanted to try and win with this team. I think that gave Arte false hope that he would resign. 

[totdprods]

I mean, they were also in it at the deadline. It wasn’t great odds, but they were in it. And it was the first time the Angels had a genuine shot at making the playoffs at that point in the year with Ohtani. That’s why they play games. To go to the playoffs. As bad as the odds were, they weren’t out of it. I’m glad they went for it. It didn’t work out, but it could’ve. And maybe it would have kept Ohtani, but even if not, it’s what you start every season hoping to do. I believe he wanted to do it for the outside chance for the fans it turned into a true playoff run.

At the end of it all too, I don’t think they lost that much at the deadline. Not totally sold on anyone we gave up being a huge loss.

[Dtwncbad]

On 6/5/2024 at 9:02 PM, Angels 1961 said:

Trade need to be buyers now.

[aznhockeyguy]

While I know Anderson is a high regression candidate, he has a ridiculous 3.4 WAR, which leads all pitchers right now and is averaging more than 6 innings a start.  Decent lefty starters are always in demand.  I would sell high on Anderson before he does regress. 

 

[jsnpritchett]

1 hour ago, aznhockeyguy said:

While I know Anderson is a high regression candidate, he has a ridiculous 3.4 WAR, which leads all pitchers right now and is averaging more than 6 innings a start.  Decent lefty starters are always in demand.  I would sell high on Anderson before he does regress. 

 

...though he's 115th in pitcher WAR if you use Fangraphs' system, which favors FIP instead of actual results.  That's one of the biggest gaps between the two systems that I've seen recently (and another reason that I think WAR can sometimes be a silly metric, since there's no agreement on how to calculate it).

[Inside Pitch]

2 hours ago, jsnpritchett said:

...though he's 115th in pitcher WAR if you use Fangraphs' system, which favors FIP instead of actual results.  That's one of the biggest gaps between the two systems that I've seen recently (and another reason that I think WAR can sometimes be a silly metric, since there's no agreement on how to calculate it).

He's like in the 500s when using WARP too.  

I'm a fan of FIP, but I'm aware of it's biases and it's propensity to ignore guys with low K rates but overall it's a better starting point IMO than RA/9.  Anderson is living off a ridiculously low BABip right now, he's got a slightly elevated walk rate but he's sporting the 3rd lowest BaBiP in MLB.

Teams know what he is and what he isn't -- but just by virtue of being left-handed he hold value.  The concerns about Ward's slump are IMO overstated as well.  Teams know what he is too, smart teams don't make decisions based on small samples.

[jsnpritchett]

3 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

He's like in the 500s when using WARP too.  

I'm a fan of FIP, but I'm aware of it's biases and it's propensity to ignore guys with low K rates but overall it's a better starting point IMO than RA/9.  Anderson is living off a ridiculously low BABip right now, he's got a slightly elevated walk rate but he's sporting the 3rd lowest BaBiP in MLB.

Teams know what he is and what he isn't -- but just by virtue of being left-handed he hold value.  The concerns about Ward's slump are IMO overstated as well.  Teams know what he is too, smart teams don't make decisions based on small samples.

I'm not even making a case for which WAR is "better." I'm just saying I think it's silly that there are different versions of a metric that's called the same thing by various sources. 

[Stradling]

1 hour ago, jsnpritchett said:

I'm not even making a case for which WAR is "better." I'm just saying I think it's silly that there are different versions of a metric that's called the same thing by various sources. 

Thats a various sources problem. 

[Blarg]

1 hour ago, jsnpritchett said:

I'm not even making a case for which WAR is "better." I'm just saying I think it's silly that there are different versions of a metric that's called the same thing by various sources. 

Pretty certain Baseball Reference is called bWAR while Fangraphs is called fWAR. Once you know which use what parameters there is less confusion. I look at it as neither actually tell a complete story so their real value is a baseline for comparing players within the same confines. 

An example of stats being a simplistic snapshot is looking at the statistical data of Detmers struggles and seeing pitch information specific of spin rates and none explain why he is allowing so many runs.

That is because velocity and spin rate doesn't measure control. Detmers has a pitch control issue. In any random pitch sequence he loses control of his release, regardless of velocity or type of pitch. But his statistical value of that pitch falls between norms for spin rates even if it hits the mascot. 

Grouping data together and looking at out of zone needs to include how far out of zone. Missing corners is different than nearly missing a batter or umpires head.

How many blown pitcher favored counts does he get into which lowers both the effectiveness of his next pitch but also can eliminate pitch choices. 

So much stuff you'd have to sift through to tell you what you can see with the eye test. He has no consistent control of his delivery. I'm not discounting stats but sometimes they unintentionally lie because they are only telling what they are programmed to relate. It's a rabbit hole at times parsing everything available and piecing it together for a more complete view.

I don't have the time or inclination to be that guy. So I look at the statistical snapshots and in game performance to see if the two are in sync. Detmers isn't in sync. 

 

[Stradling]

9 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Pretty certain Baseball Reference is called bWAR while Fangraphs is called fWAR. Once you know which use what parameters there is less confusion. I look at it as neither actually tell a complete story so their real value is a baseline for comparing players within the same confines. 

An example of stats being a simplistic snapshot is looking at the statistical data of Detmers struggles and seeing pitch information specific of spin rates and none explain why he is allowing so many runs.

That is because velocity and spin rate doesn't measure control. Detmers has a pitch control issue. In any random pitch sequence he loses control of his release, regardless of velocity or type of pitch. But his statistical value of that pitch falls between norms for spin rates even if it hits the mascot. 

Grouping data together and looking at out of zone needs to include how far out of zone. Missing corners is different than nearly missing a batter or umpires head.

How many blown pitcher favored counts does he get into which lowers both the effectiveness of his next pitch but also can eliminate pitch choices. 

So much stuff you'd have to sift through to tell you what you can see with the eye test. He has no consistent control of his delivery. I'm not discounting stats but sometimes they unintentionally lie because they are only telling what they are programmed to relate. It's a rabbit hole at times parsing everything available and piecing it together for a more complete view.

I don't have the time or inclination to be that guy. So I look at the statistical snapshots and in game performance to see if the two are in sync. Detmers isn't in sync. 

 

This is a serious question and I respect your opinion on these deep dive types of things. Do you think it’s a control issue or a command issue?  I haven’t looked at the data but it seems he gets burned with the long ball because of a lack of command where he throws a pitch middle middle. Is he also walking a ton which to me is a control issue? 

[Blarg]

4 minutes ago, Stradling said:

This is a serious question and I respect your opinion on these deep dive types of things. Do you think it’s a control issue or a command issue?  I haven’t looked at the data but it seems he gets burned with the long ball because of a lack of command where he throws a pitch middle middle. Is he also walking a ton which to me is a control issue? 

I look at command and control as two different situations. A pitcher can have command of two or more pitches and really spot his location, vary his velocity or spin. His other pitches may have less effectiveness and are show me to disrupt batter sync.

But control crosses over to all pitches. It is mechanical breakdown that can be the worst to fix and that is when it is intermittent. Throwing that perfect breaking pitch that sweeps 16" and grabs a corner of the plate then the next time hits dirt, never gets back to the zone, flattens out, that is all control. 

Detmers seems to have devolved to having control issues so there is no command. So every pitch is a random result. He needs a mechanical overhaul to create repeatability that he once had.