The Official 2024 Minor League Stats, Scouting, Updates, and Reports Thread

[jsnpritchett]

59 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Looks like Murphy worked to improve control (22/4 Ks/BBs in 18.1 innings), but in the process gave up 22 hits and 4 HRs.

Yep.  And if you draft a college pitcher from one of the top programs in the country, you've got to expect him to be farther along than A+ in his 4th season after being drafted.

[ScottM]

Did Kochanowicz figure out how to pitch?

Last 7 games: 43 IP, 3.55 ERA, 1.18 WHIP, 45 K, 9 BB.

Sample size, I know, but trending upwards.

[Inside Pitch]

19 minutes ago, ScottM said:

Did Kochanowicz figure out how to pitch?

Last 7 games: 43 IP, 3.55 ERA, 1.18 WHIP, 45 K, 9 BB.

Sample size, I know, but trending upwards.

Dude is like Omar Olivares if he could ramp it up over 95.  He's at his best when he's throwing sinkers and inducing GBs.  Watching him pitch he seems to get hit when he chases Ks in counts where a certain non-sinker pitch makes sense to use.

K rate is the single biggest predictor of future success for pitchers, Koch may be an outlier.  He'd be better if he can manufacture his own outs but his sinker is so damn heavy he could skate by with a good defense.  Problem is the current Angels IF defense is sort of LOL at times.

[Angel Oracle]

18 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Dude is like Omar Olivares if he could ramp it up over 95.  He's at his best when he's throwing sinkers and inducing GBs.  Watching him pitch he seems to get hit when he chases Ks in counts where a certain non-sinker pitch makes sense to use.

K rate is the single biggest predictor of future success for pitchers, Koch may be an outlier.  He'd be better if he can manufacture his own outs but his sinker is so damn heavy he could skate by with a good defense.  Problem is the current Angels IF defense is sort of LOL at times.

Need to clone Neto to take over 2B and 3B.

[jsnpritchett]

2 hours ago, ScottM said:

Did Kochanowicz figure out how to pitch?

Last 7 games: 43 IP, 3.55 ERA, 1.18 WHIP, 45 K, 9 BB.

Sample size, I know, but trending upwards.

He had two real clunkers in there, though, and another where he gave up 10 hits in 6 innings. I'm still skeptical.

[Angelsjunky]

2 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Dude is like Omar Olivares if he could ramp it up over 95.  He's at his best when he's throwing sinkers and inducing GBs.  Watching him pitch he seems to get hit when he chases Ks in counts where a certain non-sinker pitch makes sense to use.

K rate is the single biggest predictor of future success for pitchers, Koch may be an outlier.  He'd be better if he can manufacture his own outs but his sinker is so damn heavy he could skate by with a good defense.  Problem is the current Angels IF defense is sort of LOL at times.

I just don't get the infatuation with Kochanowicz. To me he looks like a future #5, maybe #4 if he completely optimizes his potential. But I see a guy who will struggle to keep his ERA below 5.00. Hope I'm wrong, though, but I think being wrong is him being a #4, which I suppose is a solid outcome.

[Inside Pitch]

8 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

I just don't get the infatuation with Kochanowicz. To me he looks like a future #5, maybe #4 if he completely optimizes his potential. But I see a guy who will struggle to keep his ERA below 5.00. Hope I'm wrong, though, but I think being wrong is him being a #4, which I suppose is a solid outcome.

He could be a sinker throwing, IP eating, number 4 or 5 and hold value doing just that. 

Not everyone needs to be a K machine (which the Angels have been trying to force) or front of the rotation type. there is room in MLB for guys that eat innings in the back end and provide value by saving the pen -- that's essentially Tyler Anderson's niche. Again, I think he may be an outlier in that he tends to succeed by doing less not more but baseball seems much more formulaic these days so they keep having him try to be a K guy or at the very least improve that part of his game. Not sure how often you've watched him pitch but if you have and remember Olivares, you likely understand why I'm comping them as they bear little resemblance as far as repertoire goes.  Nobody believed OO was great -- his biggest problem is he HAD been much more successful in the minors because he could throw like 7 different pitches.  Thing was, outside of his sinker (great) and his change (average to slightly above), the other 5 pitches were not MLB quality offerings. But still he tried to be the guy he had been in the minors with the 7 pitches.  

Koch is weird in another way. Drafted in 2019, he didn't make his debut until 2021 (Covid and Eppler's tendency to sit guys after drafting them), when he finally did they limited him to essentially one pitch. He's thrown all of 300 innings post HS.  To me he's another guy the Angels have failed horribly at developing. 

People whine about the Angels farm system failing to develop a star player since Trout -- all good and true but they have failed even more at developing mudders, I'd be happy with Koch being a 180 IP 4.50 ERA guy -- he's not lacking the talent, or the ability.

[Blarg]

On 6/16/2024 at 12:05 PM, bruin5 said:

Add Neto and O’Hoppe since organization rushed them as well. 

 

O'Hoppe had 1,048 minor league at bats since drafted at age 18. He was not rushed. 

[Tank]

5 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

He could be a sinker throwing, IP eating, number 4 or 5 and hold value doing just that. 

Not everyone needs to be a K machine (which the Angels have been trying to force) or front of the rotation type. there is room in MLB for guys that eat innings in the back end and provide value by saving the pen -- that's essentially Tyler Anderson's niche. Again, I think he may be an outlier in that he tends to succeed by doing less not more but baseball seems much more formulaic these days so they keep having him try to be a K guy or at the very least improve that part of his game. Not sure how often you've watched him pitch but if you have and remember Olivares, you likely understand why I'm comping them as they bear little resemblance as far as repertoire goes.  Nobody believed OO was great -- his biggest problem is he HAD been much more successful in the minors because he could throw like 7 different pitches.  Thing was, outside of his sinker (great) and his change (average to slightly above), the other 5 pitches were not MLB quality offerings. But still he tried to be the guy he had been in the minors with the 7 pitches.  

Koch is weird in another way. Drafted in 2019, he didn't make his debut until 2021 (Covid and Eppler's tendency to sit guys after drafting them), when he finally did they limited him to essentially one pitch. He's thrown all of 300 innings post HS.  To me he's another guy the Angels have failed horribly at developing. 

People whine about the Angels farm system failing to develop a star player since Trout -- all good and true but they have failed even more at developing mudders, I'd be happy with Koch being a 180 IP 4.50 ERA guy -- he's not lacking the talent, or the ability.

when i get hired as GM, my first hire will be you to oversee our farm system. 

[BTH]

Two of the biggest mistakes Billy Eppler ever made were letting Andrew Bailey and Donnie Ecker walk. Part of that is probably Arte’s fault for giving him a small budget.

But those two guys are really good at what they do (developing pitchers for Bailey, developing hitters for Ecker)

Look at what Bailey did with Cooper Criswell, for example.

The Angels had both of those guys, yet let them both walk because they didn’t maximize them.

[Make Angels Great Again]

7 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

He could be a sinker throwing, IP eating, number 4 or 5 and hold value doing just that. 

Not everyone needs to be a K machine (which the Angels have been trying to force) or front of the rotation type. there is room in MLB for guys that eat innings in the back end and provide value by saving the pen -- that's essentially Tyler Anderson's niche. Again, I think he may be an outlier in that he tends to succeed by doing less not more but baseball seems much more formulaic these days so they keep having him try to be a K guy or at the very least improve that part of his game. Not sure how often you've watched him pitch but if you have and remember Olivares, you likely understand why I'm comping them as they bear little resemblance as far as repertoire goes.  Nobody believed OO was great -- his biggest problem is he HAD been much more successful in the minors because he could throw like 7 different pitches.  Thing was, outside of his sinker (great) and his change (average to slightly above), the other 5 pitches were not MLB quality offerings. But still he tried to be the guy he had been in the minors with the 7 pitches.  

Koch is weird in another way. Drafted in 2019, he didn't make his debut until 2021 (Covid and Eppler's tendency to sit guys after drafting them), when he finally did they limited him to essentially one pitch. He's thrown all of 300 innings post HS.  To me he's another guy the Angels have failed horribly at developing. 

People whine about the Angels farm system failing to develop a star player since Trout -- all good and true but they have failed even more at developing mudders, I'd be happy with Koch being a 180 IP 4.50 ERA guy -- he's not lacking the talent, or the ability.

 

In other words, he could be Rick Porcello?

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

 

In other words, he could be Rick Porcello?

That might not be a bad comp, early Porcello when he induced GBs left and right.  It's hard to find a proper comp because Koch can ramp it up to the upper 90s, and most guys with that GB/velocity combo tend to put up better K rates than Koch has.  Porcello rarely topped 93 and had four pitches but definitely that early version where he was 40-50% sinkers and ate innings.

 

[Vlad27Trout27]

8 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

He could be a sinker throwing, IP eating, number 4 or 5 and hold value doing just that. 

Not everyone needs to be a K machine (which the Angels have been trying to force) or front of the rotation type. there is room in MLB for guys that eat innings in the back end and provide value by saving the pen -- that's essentially Tyler Anderson's niche. Again, I think he may be an outlier in that he tends to succeed by doing less not more but baseball seems much more formulaic these days so they keep having him try to be a K guy or at the very least improve that part of his game. Not sure how often you've watched him pitch but if you have and remember Olivares, you likely understand why I'm comping them as they bear little resemblance as far as repertoire goes.  Nobody believed OO was great -- his biggest problem is he HAD been much more successful in the minors because he could throw like 7 different pitches.  Thing was, outside of his sinker (great) and his change (average to slightly above), the other 5 pitches were not MLB quality offerings. But still he tried to be the guy he had been in the minors with the 7 pitches.  

Koch is weird in another way. Drafted in 2019, he didn't make his debut until 2021 (Covid and Eppler's tendency to sit guys after drafting them), when he finally did they limited him to essentially one pitch. He's thrown all of 300 innings post HS.  To me he's another guy the Angels have failed horribly at developing. 

People whine about the Angels farm system failing to develop a star player since Trout -- all good and true but they have failed even more at developing mudders, I'd be happy with Koch being a 180 IP 4.50 ERA guy -- he's not lacking the talent, or the ability.

Honestly, this is the type of pitcher I envision him becoming. Personally, I feel like the lack of a third pitch and Covid  has significantly limited his potential.At the end of the day, you have to determine if he provides more value in the bullpen with his sinker/Slider combo or as a back-end starter.

[Inside Pitch]

14 hours ago, jsnpritchett said:

He had two real clunkers in there, though, and another where he gave up 10 hits in 6 innings. I'm still skeptical.

Extreme GB pitcher (GB rate near 60%) with a Babip approaching .340.  He's got a FIP almost 1.5 runs lower than his ERA, and an xFIP under 3.50.  It appears the defense has been an issue.. 

I think it's fair to be skeptical, but there's a lot of noise there.  He's an interesting guy to track.  As much as I like digging into the numbers he's hard to read because of all that noise. Anyway I always find myself watching him pitch and thinking he would have,been better off throwing another sinker.

[Inside Pitch]

3 minutes ago, Vlad27Trout27 said:

Honestly, this is the type of pitcher I envision him becoming. Personally, I feel like the lack of a third pitch and Covid  has significantly limited his potential.At the end of the day, you have to determine if he provides more value in the bullpen with his sinker/Slider combo or as a back-end starter.

If he was a hitter I would have punted.  It's hard for them to come back from lost development time.  Pitchers can all of a sudden master a pitch and boom, they go to another level.  Not to shit on the Angels but I do think he's a guy that they should have unlocked more out of.  He's got a crazy 12/6 curve that I'm guessing he doesn't always control well but it is a monster pitch at times.

[Inside Pitch]

You guys have made for a fun convo on a guy that really hasn't done much.  Thank you for that bc that MLB isn't very interesting at all.

I can't wait for there to be a deadline purge and for us to see the great 2025 Angels bullpen auditions.

[Vlad27Trout27]

3 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

If he was a hitter I would have punted.  It's hard for them to come back from lost development time.  Pitchers can all of a sudden master a pitch and boom, they go to another level.  Not to shit on the Angels but I do think he's a guy that they should have unlocked more out of.  He's got a crazy 12/6 curve that I'm guessing he doesn't always control well but it is a monster pitch at times.

It's interesting that you mention the 12-6 curve, as I haven't seen him use it much when I've watched him pitch. It seems like the emphasis in our pitching development is on the slider and increasing velocity, while other pitches become secondary. The same thing happened with Detmers and Canning; both became slider-focused, and the pitches that got them drafted in college have become an afterthought.

[Inside Pitch]

2 hours ago, BTH said:

Two of the biggest mistakes Billy Eppler ever made were letting Andrew Bailey and Donnie Ecker walk. Part of that is probably Arte’s fault for giving him a small budget.

But those two guys are really good at what they do (developing pitchers for Bailey, developing hitters for Ecker)

Look at what Bailey did with Cooper Criswell, for example.

The Angels had both of those guys, yet let them both walk because they didn’t maximize them.

Eppler found them, brought them on board.  Keeping guys always takes money and we know who owns the Angels ... Mr. penny wise, pound foolish...

[Angel Oracle]

5 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Eppler found them, brought them on board.  Keeping guys always takes money and we know who owns the Angels ... Mr. penny wise, pound foolish...

$5 billion net worth, yet when it comes to infrastructure, he acts like his net worth is less than even Fisher’s! 

[Inside Pitch]

35 minutes ago, Vlad27Trout27 said:

It's interesting that you mention the 12-6 curve, as I haven't seen him use it much when I've watched him pitch. It seems like the emphasis in our pitching development is on the slider and increasing velocity, while other pitches become secondary. The same thing happened with Detmers and Canning; both became slider-focused, and the pitches that got them drafted in college have become an afterthought.

I legit thought his curve would become his signature pitch.  But as I said previously, they seem hyper focused on pushing Ks. I mean I get it, but not sure I get them always trying to make them all the same exact pitcher.

[bruin5]

6 hours ago, Blarg said:

O'Hoppe had 1,048 minor league at bats since drafted at age 18. He was not rushed. 

It was sarcasm. OP said Adell and Suarez were rushed. Adell had plenty of AB’s in minors and majors. Suarez had a lot of innings pitched. AB’s are big, but so is mental make up. Neto and O’Hoppe are both dawgs. 

[Angelsjunky]

11 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

He could be a sinker throwing, IP eating, number 4 or 5 and hold value doing just that. 

Yeah, I hear you - and it is not as much that I disagree that him becoming a 4/5 has value - I agree - it is just that the amount he's talked about isn't commensurate with that upside. And perhaps I'm going on earlier "quasi-hype"--when he was first drafted, some were rather excited about him, and talked about him like he was a future 2/3.

What I'm talking about might also be indicative of just how bad the farm system has been. An actual 4/5 is a pretty good result. But...

[Angel Oracle]

Whatever happened to keeping one of a pitcher’s two strongest pitches in the arsenal?

[jsnpritchett]

Silseth got shelled again tonight in a rehab start at Salt Lake.  Just got pulled after 4 2/3 innings and 92 pitches.  Gave up 8 hits, 3 walks, 5 runs (2 HR), and K'ed 2.

EDIT: ...and Paris has made 2 errors in that game, giving him 5 in 11 games since he got sent down.  What in the world has happened to him?  Can't hit OR field now, apparently.

Edited June 22 by jsnpritchett

[tdawg87]

6 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Eppler found them, brought them on board.  Keeping guys always takes money and we know who owns the Angels ... Mr. penny wise, pound foolish...

I apologize.