AngelsWin Today: Perry Minasian Interview - In Defense of The Angels General Manager

[ten ocho recon scout]

27 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

 

No more big FA contracts beyond 5-6 seasons!   And especially not for 30 somethings!

Even the show Thirty Something only lasted 4 seasons.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirtysomething

[79CAAman]

Perry is going to go down as the GM that had TWO of the best players of their generation and they accomplished dick.  Last year they led the majors in strikeouts by a comfortable margin.  I mean, it's hard to bring a guy in with a lead off double by continuously striking out.  Yeah, they fired Reed as the hitting coach.  This year, they have only slightly improved in that area.  This season the pitching staff seems to have regressed, I mean one of the starters should have had something resembling a breakout season.  That will be addressed when exactly?  He may be a good GM to some, my problem is... there are too many GM's out there that are much better at their jobs.   

[Stradling]

1 hour ago, 79CAAman said:

Perry is going to go down as the GM that had TWO of the best players of their generation and they accomplished dick.  Last year they led the majors in strikeouts by a comfortable margin.  I mean, it's hard to bring a guy in with a lead off double by continuously striking out.  Yeah, they fired Reed as the hitting coach.  This year, they have only slightly improved in that area.  This season the pitching staff seems to have regressed, I mean one of the starters should have had something resembling a breakout season.  That will be addressed when exactly?  He may be a good GM to some, my problem is... there are too many GM's out there that are much better at their jobs.   

No he won’t.  Well he might by idiots, who ignore what really happened, but he really shouldn’t be remembered for that.  

[Duren, Duren]

I wonder about Perry's philosophy of bringing totally raw youngsters to the major leagues right out of college. 

Sure, it looks good when some of them seem to fit in right away. But the sample size is still small. 

The best organizations used to have most of their prospects graduate from level to level in their system. 

Not only do they get coaching and experience at a pro level , but they 'pay their dues' to use an old cliche. Bus travel, fast food, cheap hotels, small crowds and so on. Part of the maturation process that college kids skip or only have minimal exposure to. It also gets them hungry and motivated to graduate to the major league lifestyle. 

Seems to be a rather curious and impatient way of building a team. And the risk of failure is also a possibility. And it opens up Perry to more second guessing. Not that some of those guys won't be good long term, but overall it's an unusual approach. 

But to be fair, this season may just be an outlier. Risky moves out of desperation to try and take advantage of the Ohtani window. 

[T.G.]

30 minutes ago, Duren, Duren said:

Seems to be a rather curious and impatient way of building a team. And the risk of failure is also a possibility. And it opens up Perry to more second guessing. Not that some of those guys won't be good long term, but overall it's an unusual approach. 

I like the fact Perry isn't sticking to the old ways and is looking to push the envelope. I think the risks he takes are calculated.  He's not flying by the seat of his pants. I think a lot of thought and conversations take place before they push a guy to the major league level. 

Yes, some of it has happened out of necessity, but I don't think it's been haphazard by any means.  I also don't think he's being impatient - he's taking advantage of opportunities when they develop.  There's no fear there and I like that.  He's willing to fail and that is a part of success.  I don't feel he's acted desperate at all. 

I like the "unusual approach."  Lots of great players made the jump from AA to the majors over the years.  When they're ready - they're ready.

[BTH]

15 hours ago, mmc said:

How do you quantify that the prospects that are performing well are doing it in spite of whatever Minasian’s PD is, and that the ones that are failing are directly because of it?

The ones that are doing well have had limited time under Minasian’s PD.

- Schanuel, Neto, Joyce, Bachman, O’Hoppe, Silseth.

The one’s that have been in the system for a while are the ones failing.

Credit to him for identifying players who don’t need much work, but it’s his bad PD that helps necessitate that.

[BTH]

9 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Now please explain to me how you came to believe that the players who have succeeded have done so independent of the PD people.  If your sole argument is that they didn't spend enough time in the minors to be impacted, how do you not give the PD people credit for being able to spot the very attributes that made it possible for their ascension?

The PD aren’t the ones spotting the attributes for their ascension. It’s the amateur scouting department identifying those players in the draft.

9 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Again, I haven't been paying close attention.  No idea if they have thrown to the wrong bases, made baserunning errors and the typical thing Joe Fan believes are fundamentals, but I do know that young players can be prone to mistakes, partially due to jitters and a lack of reps.  It's all mostly noise at this point.

If you haven’t watched that’s fine, but I have, and can tell you they haven’t been throwing to the right bases and have been making baserunning errors.

9 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

How can you possibly make such a comment unless you are aware of actual changes they made to the "infrastructure" since last season? 

I’m talking about the major league side, not the minor league side.

Fletch wrote an article about this:

”When pitchers and staff members were asked privately for their honest opinions, they had some theories about the reasons for the team-wide pitching failure.

Most of them agreed on one count.

There has been an organizational philosophy – one that comes “from the top,” not from Wise, a player insisted – to concentrate more on spin, velocity and movement instead of command and working through game situations.”

https://www.ocregister.com/2023/08/17/why-have-so-many-angels-pitchers-struggled-this-season/
 

[BTH]

9 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Reality is that unless they were to bring in someone like Theo, it won't matter who the GM is or what he wants to do unless Arte has actually decided to let the GM work.. 

I agree, which is a big reason why I want them to hire a new GM.

The way I see it is:

Maybe Arte does the same thing and hires a cheap GM who he micromanages.

But there’s a chance, whatever small percentage it may be, that he hires a new head of baseball ops and changes some of his ways.

And I’d rather have that small chance than just sticking with the current setup.

[BTH]

9 hours ago, Stradling said:

@Inside Pitch I am assuming when he said pitching infrastructure he was referring to replacing Chidi with the driveline guy at the major league level. I think it was Sandoval and Loup who’ve been critical of that this season. 

Correct.

8 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

If the guy that was pressed into duty as the interim BP coach only because Wise was promoted is that key to the team's infrastructure then the team is worse off than anyone is aware of.

I’m not saying Chiti was instrumental, but as Fletch’s great article said, it personified the shift in philosophy.

Also, it’s worth noting that Chiti was one of the first three people that Perry brought over with him from Atlanta. So he clearly valued him to some extent, which makes it weird that he was removed from the position.

[BTH]

5 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

We can blame Perry. Nevin. We can blame lots of people. But this team in 2023 was absolutely destroyed by injuries.

I don’t understand this notion from people.

Even if everyone on the team was fully healthy, was this pitching staff good enough for a playoff team?

To me, the answer is absolutely not.

[T.G.]

I think keeping Minasian would be a sign that Arte is starting to understand how to stay out of the way more.  We saw a difference in the way they went about building a roster this year.  I am going to give Minasian credit for that.  I'm going to assume that Minasian is having a positive influence on Moreno.  He stopped Moreno from going after Trey Turner.  He convinced him to go over the cap at the deadline, etc., etc.

Firing Minasian now would make me believe Moreno didn't learn a damn thing.

[Tank]

7 minutes ago, BTH said:

I don’t understand this notion from people.

Even if everyone on the team was fully healthy, was this pitching staff good enough for a playoff team?

To me, the answer is absolutely not.

how many more runs would the team have scored with a healthy trout in the lineup all year? or how many more if renfroe could hit .275 with RISP? or if ohtani wasn't hurt? what if rengifo hit well all year long? or what if walsh wasn't hurt? or what if, or what if, or what if?

this offense was talented enough to win a lot more games this year. 

a good offense can carry at least a share of the load better. and when the pitching is off here and there, a good offense can hide some of that. not perfectly, but it would've helped a number of times throughout this year.

[jsnpritchett]

15 minutes ago, Tank said:

how many more runs would the team have scored with a healthy trout in the lineup all year? or how many more if renfroe could hit .275 with RISP? or if ohtani wasn't hurt? what if rengifo hit well all year long? or what if walsh wasn't hurt? or what if, or what if, or what if?

this offense was talented enough to win a lot more games this year. 

a good offense can carry at least a share of the load better. and when the pitching is off here and there, a good offense can hide some of that. not perfectly, but it would've helped a number of times throughout this year.

Cool, so they might have finished 3 games or so above .500, best-case scenario?  I think people sometimes lose sight of just how awful the pitching has been--and it really hasn't been due to injuries.  They've given up the fourth-most runs in the AL.

[T.G.]

2 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

Cool, so they might have finished 3 games or so above .500, best-case scenario?  I think people sometimes lose sight of just how awful the pitching has been--and it really hasn't been due to injuries.  They've given up the fourth-most runs in the AL.

But the bad defense did have an impact on the pitching and the injuries impacted the defense.  A full season of Neto would have helped, among others.

[BTH]

23 minutes ago, Tank said:

how many more runs would the team have scored with a healthy trout in the lineup all year? or how many more if renfroe could hit .275 with RISP? or if ohtani wasn't hurt? what if rengifo hit well all year long? or what if walsh wasn't hurt? or what if, or what if, or what if?

this offense was talented enough to win a lot more games this year. 

a good offense can carry at least a share of the load better. and when the pitching is off here and there, a good offense can hide some of that. not perfectly, but it would've helped a number of times throughout this year.

There’s no doubt it would’ve helped, but would it have been enough to overcome a bottom 10 pitching staff?

[jsnpritchett]

Just now, BTH said:

There’s no doubt it would’ve helped, but would it have been enough to overcome a bottom 10 pitching staff?

[tdawg87]

Perry should not be fired. Firing him just keeps us circling the drain. 

Let him fucking work. You can hire anyone to sign the players you throw billions of dollars at, but if you want to actually improve, you have to give the guy the tools to work with as well as a fucking chance to use them.

If you want a Yes Man just bring back Reagins.

[Hubs]

I all but guarantee he is gone at the end of his contract, unless they somehow field a winner in 2024.

Phil will most likely be the fall guy.

 

[Inside Pitch]

2 hours ago, BTH said:

The PD aren’t the ones spotting the attributes for their ascension. It’s the amateur scouting department identifying those players in the draft.

The scouting/player development departments work as a team. If you truly believe the team doesn't look for guys that fit what they want their players to do. I don't know what to say.

2 hours ago, BTH said:

If you haven’t watched that’s fine, but I have, and can tell you they haven’t been throwing to the right bases and have been making baserunning errors.

So, thats what your indictment of the PD is based on? 

My advice, watch more baseball, including other teams. Young players making bonehead plays is pretty common. I watched Schanuel make a "veteran" play in what may have been his first or second start (and the broadcast jizzed themselves talking about it), then days later pull a boner on something basic. O'Hoppe has similarly been prone to mistakes early on -- are the Phillies PD people also awful?

Seriously -- that shit happens all the time.  It's noise.  I have my own criticisms of the PD people, but it's based on entirely different stuff.

2 hours ago, BTH said:

I’m talking about the major league side, not the minor league side.

Fletch wrote an article about this:

”When pitchers and staff members were asked privately for their honest opinions, they had some theories about the reasons for the team-wide pitching failure.

Most of them agreed on one count.

There has been an organizational philosophy – one that comes “from the top,” not from Wise, a player insisted – to concentrate more on spin, velocity and movement instead of command and working through game situations.”

https://www.ocregister.com/2023/08/17/why-have-so-many-angels-pitchers-struggled-this-season/

Sorry, my mistake combining your thoughts on the PD with the pitching "infrastructure".

But now that I know what you meant, keep reading...  the article also said this:

 Left-hander Patrick Sandoval said the Angels definitely went too far in emphasizing raw stuff early in the season, but it became more balanced with the other elements of pitching about a month into the season.

“We’ve structured the pitching here in a way to emphasize both, I think in a good way,” he said. “It’s just a matter of us going out there and executing in games, and that’s where we fall short, for sure.”

One of the reasons the Angels were emphasizing pitch shapes, the pitchers said, is that the team was looking for more strikeouts. This year’s shift ban, plus the Angels’ overall weaker defensive infield, prompted the team to try to avoid contact.

Sounds like they were looking for ways to compensate for changes to the game and roster...  According to Sandoval they tried to find balance as the season went on. To his credit, he seems to be self aware enough to own up to the reality the pitchers have execute -- they haven't.  Were the changes bad, or are the players stupid?  I couldn't tell you.  The article also makes mention of the lack of experience behind the plate.  Several points were made, you chose to focus on one of those.  I actually DO believe a veteran catcher can coax a pitcher through his messes -- something we have seen them fail at consistently this season.

Honestly my biggest takeaway from that article when it came out was that Minasian was unaware of any disconnect among the pitching staff -- that seemed like a bigger issue to me than guys struggling with changes.

2 hours ago, BTH said:

Maybe Arte does the same thing and hires a cheap GM who he micromanages.

But there’s a chance, whatever small percentage it may be, that he hires a new head of baseball ops and changes some of his ways.

And I’d rather have that small chance than just sticking with the current setup.

This is essentially wishing.  I stopped wishing when it relates to Arte a long time ago.  This isn't a slight aimed at you -- Arte is  problematic.  He's also the owner so that's a hard one to get around.  

2 hours ago, BTH said:

Correct.

I’m not saying Chiti was instrumental, but as Fletch’s great article said, it personified the shift in philosophy.

Also, it’s worth noting that Chiti was one of the first three people that Perry brought over with him from Atlanta. So he clearly valued him to some extent, which makes it weird that he was removed from the position.

I'd be willing to wager the changes were going to happen regardless of whether or not Chiti was here.

If indeed the reasoning (as per the article), was to compensate for the end of the shift/worse defense, Chiti's tenure here likely had no impact. And while you're bringing up how Minasian brought Chiti with him from Atlanta, let me remind you the first guy he brought with him (Alex Tamin), is likely the guy pushing the team towards these things. 

Atlanta, Baltimore, LA, Houston, Cleveland ... they all focus on this stuff.   One of the best things about MLB extra Innings is being able to watch out of town pregame shows and telecasts.  You learn a great deal about how other teams operate -- the Angels are still trying to catch up to the pack -- back to the article you reference, Minasian made note of the team needing to do an "autopsy" on the situation once the season ended. We will see what becomes of it.

When it's all said and done... It is my genuine belief that a lot of this could have been avoided had they simply had a manager who was willing to buy into what the front office was doing. A lot of this could have been worked out sooner, instead they wasted two years fighting the dugout -- I also wonder how big of an impact the Mickey Callaway BS had on all of this.
 

[T.G.]

Damn it IP. I was going to post the  exact same thing, but with pictures.

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, BTH said:

The ones that are doing well have had limited time under Minasian’s PD.

- Schanuel, Neto, Joyce, Bachman, O’Hoppe, Silseth.

There isn't a single person alive who saw what Silseth was coming out of college who doesn't also believe the Angels completely reworked him. 

Bachman and Joyce are RPs.  

O'Hoppe has thrown to the wrong base, thrown behind runners -- hell his bonehead play played a role in Silseth's decapitation unless it was some other catcher that completely blew that play.

 

[BTH]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

So, thats what your indictment of the PD is based on? 

My advice, watch more baseball, including other teams. Young players making bonehead plays is pretty common.

I probably am just drawing too many conclusions from a small sample from players who shouldn’t be up— Adams and Paris were pretty bad in most every aspect.

To your point, I remember watching Jose Tena make back-to-back misplays in the 9th for Cleveland a month or so ago. Naturally, I pay more attention to it when it’s the Angels guys making mistakes.

[BTH]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

When it's all said and done... It is my genuine belief that a lot of this could have been avoided had they simply had a manager who was willing to buy into what the front office was doing. A lot of this could have been worked out sooner, instead they wasted two years fighting the dugout -- I also wonder how big of an impact the Mickey Callaway BS had on all of this.

If Perry keeps his job while having the autonomy to pick his own manager, I also think things would be better than they have been.

I just want a GM and manager who are on the same page for longer than one season. So if you keep Perry and let him pick the manager, extend him and give him more rope.

[Angel Oracle]

1 hour ago, BTH said:

If Perry keeps his job while having the autonomy to pick his own manager, I also think things would be better than they have been.

I just want a GM and manager who are on the same page for longer than one season. So if you keep Perry and let him pick the manager, extend him and give him more rope.

I can see a one year extension through 2025.   That’s 5 years including the next two with his choice of manager.

[ten ocho recon scout]

4 hours ago, BTH said:

The ones that are doing well have had limited time under Minasian’s PD.

- Schanuel, Neto, Joyce, Bachman, O’Hoppe, Silseth.

The one’s that have been in the system for a while are the ones failing.

Credit to him for identifying players who don’t need much work, but it’s his bad PD that helps necessitate that.

That's a good point.

I also think in Minasians defense that he didn't have a lot of choice... this team has been starved for talent not named Trout or Ohtani for years now.

I'm sure the team would prefer the youngsters spending more time in the minors, but the option was the Duffy and Goselin types. And as painful as it is to see some of these young guys struggle, I really couldn't take hearing "goose" or "captain jack" one more time when we lose 5-1 again.