Angels acquire Lucas Giolito and Reynaldo Lopez for Edgar Quero and Ky Bush (move Joyce to 60-day IL, option Reyes, DFA Walsh and Davidson)

[Angels 1961]

4 minutes ago, fan_since79 said:

Just woke up to the news. Seems very positive at first look. Angels are all in for a playoff push this year it appears. Arte will have to back up the truck though to extend both Giolito and Ohtani.

Do not sleep on your halos

[fan_since79]

I like Bellinger now that he's remembered how to hit a baseball again. But another left-handed batter?

 

[arch stanton]

1 hour ago, Angelsjunky said:

I can live with this. I'll be sad when Edgar Quero becomes the next Joe Mauer, but the needed a boost like this.

A bit worried with Giolito's declined numbers over the last couple years. He's still been solid, but 2022-23 is a step down from 2019-21. Similarly with Lopez, who hasn't been as good this year as last. Hopefully Perry did his scouting.

Whatever decline Giolito has experienced he still clearly raises the floor on the rotation

[Blarg]

I could be wrong but I think trading 20 year old Quero is about the dumbest move Minasian could make to pick up a rental. 

[Angelsjunky]

8 minutes ago, Blarg said:

I could be wrong but I think trading 20 year old Quero is about the dumbest move Minasian could make to pick up a rental. 

Maybe he's raising the going rate on rentals to get a huge package for Ohtani.

[Angels 1961]

5 minutes ago, Blarg said:

I could be wrong but I think trading 20 year old Quero is about the dumbest move Minasian could make to pick up a rental. 

After 7 losing seasons sitting and doing nothing is not the answer. I give lot of credit to Arte and Perry for direction for rest of 2023. Time has come to go all in. Moves picking up Moose and Escobar have really helped. Ifor going for itf they lose Ohtani maybe they sign Gio. Props to Arte for going for it. 

[T.G.]

Lucas Frost Giolitto - interesting family:

Giolito is the son of actress Lindsay Frost and video game producer Rick Giolito. His maternal grandfather, Warren Frost was an actor, while his paternal grandfather, Silvio Giolitto, was a two time Olympic Fencer and multiple time US National Champion. Lucas’ brother Casey is an actor, while his uncle, Mark Frost, is a novelist, television screenwriter, and producer best known as the co-creator of Twin Peaks with David Lynch. Another uncle, Scott Frost, is a writer.

[Chico]

I know the Angels are probably all set with O'Hoppe etc. as catcher so maybe Quero was expendable. Bush might become a G-VG pitcher. It's still early. Lopez and Giolito have not been performing up to par this year and are free agents after the season. They are bordering on their 30s...Still they might bolster the starting pitching and blowpen.

I'm also a fan of the Buffalo Sabres and it reminds me of the deal they made to acquire Taylor Hall, who was a free agent at the time. They acquired Hall to appease Jack Eichel, who wanted out because of all the losing at the time. They paid Hall $8 million for one year, an oversize contract for an inconsistent guy like him.  It ended up that the two had similar stat lines: Eichel: 2g 16a -9 in 21 g before shutting down (for the season before his trade) and Hall 2g 17a -21 in 37g before he engineered a lopsided trade to the Bruins. (Sabres fans despise Hall now).

So both Hall and Eichel departed the Sabres despite the move to "push for a playoff spot." The only difference is the Sabres got a bounty for Eichel (even as they got literally nothing -- Anders Bjork -- for Hall). Big problem if the Angels lose Ohtani for nothing and also lose Giolito and Lopez for nothing. 

[DMVol]

29 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

Everyone keeps talking about this, but wouldn't his "home team" be the Dodgers, not the Angels, most likely? He was born in Santa Monica and went to Harvard-Westlake. 

I am not a "local" fan (started following the team as a kid when I visited my Uncle in Santa Ana) so I defer to you on those things....but I guess my thought would be more wanting to be near home....Trout (I think) grew up a Phillies fan but would be fairly close to home with the Mets or Yankees too...Guy from The Athletic thought the same thing (if you have a subscription):

https://theathletic.com/4725698/2023/07/27/mlb-trade-grades-angels-white-sox-giolito-lopez/

[jsnpritchett]

1 minute ago, DMVol said:

I am not a "local" fan (started following the team as a kid when I visited my Uncle in Santa Ana) so I defer to you on those things....but I guess my thought would be more wanting to be near home....Trout (I think) grew up a Phillies fan but would be fairly close to home with the Mets or Yankees too...

I guess my point is that he could just as easily want to go to the Dodgers rather than the Angels if he wants to come "home". 

(And I'm like you: I'm not a "local" fan, either.  Grew up in GA and now live in L.A., yet follow the Angels!)

[AvsBroncosAngels05]

4 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

After 7 losing seasons sitting and doing nothing is not the answer. I give lot of credit to Arte and Perry for direction for rest of 2023. Time has come to go all in. Moves picking up Moose and Escobar have really helped. Ifor going for itf they lose Ohtani maybe they sign Gio. Props to Arte for going for it. 

Couldn't have said it better myself. We tried the "stand pat and maybe we'll be competitive in 5 years" approach with Billy Eppler and it got us nowhere. I give Perry credit for trying with this trade, and for trading for Moose and Escobar the same weekend about a month ago. I never saw Quero play or anything, but once O'Hoppe emerged earlier this year as the starting catcher I figured he was probably blocked with the Angels. At least if they fall short and miss the playoffs again this year I can applaud them for the effort. Hopefully the boys respond and kick some ass in the doubleheader today. Let's go!!

[totdprods]

5 minutes ago, T.G. said:

Lucas Frost Giolitto - interesting family:

Giolito is the son of actress Lindsay Frost and video game producer Rick Giolito. His maternal grandfather, Warren Frost was an actor, while his paternal grandfather, Silvio Giolitto, was a two time Olympic Fencer and multiple time US National Champion. Lucas’ brother Casey is an actor, while his uncle, Mark Frost, is a novelist, television screenwriter, and producer best known as the co-creator of Twin Peaks with David Lynch. Another uncle, Scott Frost, is a writer.

I love Twin Peaks and I’ve known this about Lucas for awhile, so gave me a little more joy seeing him acquired.

[Angelsjunky]

The bottom line is that Quero is a good prospect, but 1) he's still a couple years away and 2) the Angels have their starting catcher for the foreseeable future in O'Hoppe, and Quero was destined for a back-up role and/or 1B/3B. So this actually serves him (assuming the White Sox don't have a better prospect). Bush is OK, but probably a future #4 at best, more likely #5 or middle reliever.

On the other side of the deal, Giolito might have slipped, but still provides a high floor, as some have said. He also gives the Angels a back-up option to re-sign if Ohtani departs. As someone pointed out, Lopez was bad in April but good since. Clearly he improves the bullpen.

Even if both are just rentals, they improve the team's chances at the playoffs and therefore improves their chances of re-signing Ohtani, while trading away prospects that they don't absolutely need. I'll miss seeing what Quero could become as an Angel, but if this is the edge they need to make the playoffs, I'll take it (if they miss out, it will look bad, but more in a hindsight sort of way).

[DMVol]

1 minute ago, jsnpritchett said:

I guess my point is that he could just as easily want to go to the Dodgers rather than the Angels if he wants to come "home". 

(And I'm like you: I'm not a "local" fan, either.  Grew up in GA and now live in L.A., yet follow the Angels!)

Very true....but, not knowing his personal situation (Wikipedia says he is divorcing his high school sweetheart wife), you would guess that maybe the Dodgers and Angels (and maybe the Padres) would have some advantage if he wants to stay close to home....If he has kids, you would guess he'd like to be near them....Just don't know....a strong finish by both Giolito and the team might influence his thinking.....

[totdprods]

I can’t remember a time in recent memory where a team had two good catching prospects and managed to 1) keep them both 2) split their time effectively and 3) have them both turn out to be good 

San Fran, Toronto, and Dodgers all come to mind for past half-decade, and none of those teams made it work. The Angels maybe with Mathis and Napoli, but that didn’t last long and if I recall, finding a balance in playing time was part of the reason there was friction with Scioscia and Napoli. 

All of those first three factors needed to happen to make holding onto Quero worth it. Super unlikely. And we still have Thaiss! He isn’t a FA until after ‘27. A left-handed hitting catcher with good offense  and developing defense. Has done a fine job as the main guy all summer and is still getting better as he doesn’t even have 1000 innings caught in the bigs. He only just passed his 162nd MLB game.

It would’ve been nice to get someone with more control, but if we re-sign either arm or it helps us keep Shohei, it works out just fine in the end. 

Edited July 27, 2023 by totdprods

[jsnpritchett]

I love O'Hoppe so far and he does seem to be the real deal--but he's also still a rookie.  If for some reason he doesn't continue to live up to the hype, then the Angels have zero depth in the system to replace him. 

I completely understand you have to give up something good to get something good, but I still personally feel this was an overpay for rentals. 

[DMVol]

11 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I can’t remember a time in recent memory where a team had two good catching prospects and managed to 1) keep them both 2) split their time effectively and 3) have them both turn out to be good 

San Fran, Toronto, and Dodgers all come to mind for past half-decade, and none of those teams made it work. The Angels maybe with Mathis and Napoli, but that didn’t last long and if I recall, finding a balance in playing time was part of the reason there was friction with Scioscia and Napoli. 

All of those first three factors needed to happen to make holding onto Quero worth it. Super unlikely. And we still have Thaiss! He isn’t a FA until after ‘27. A left-handed hitting catcher with good offense  and developing defense. Has done a fine job as the main guy all summer and is still getting better as he doesn’t even have 1000 innings caught in the bigs. He only just passed his 162nd MLB game.

It would’ve been nice to get someone with more control, but if we re-sign either arm or it helps us keep Shohei, it works out just fine in the end. 

I think the possibility of re-signing Giolito may have been a bigger factor in the deal than we realize....unlike Teixeira (who wanted to play on the east coast) or Greinke (who seemingly was after the best deal), we might have a decent chance of signing Giolito....I know long term deals and pitchers are a huge risk but he would give you an established starter going forward....

[totdprods]

Just now, DMVol said:

I think the possibility of re-signing Giolito may have been a bigger factor in the deal than we realize....unlike Teixeira (who wanted to play on the east coast) or Greinke (who seemingly was after the best deal), we might have a decent chance of signing Giolito....I know long term deals and pitchers are a huge risk but he would give you an established starter going forward....

My Ohtani-less winter plan almost all along has been signing Giolito and Flaherty to replace him in the rotation.

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, Blarg said:

I could be wrong but I think trading 20 year old Quero is about the dumbest move Minasian could make to pick up a rental. 

There's a very good possibility that he ends up being MInasian's "Segura".  This deal feels a bit like that one, there's a hint of hail mary to it.

Angels history being what it is, it's easy to think "this again", I wouldn't blame anyone for agreeing with you, I'm not sure what to think to be honest. Quero might be Jason Kendall 2.0, a catcher that runs well and gets on base at a really elite rate for someone his age and at his position, but he's a catcher and the position has the highest attrition rate among MiLB position players.

No idea what conversations or concerns Ohtani's reps may have passed along to the Angels, no idea if the motivation for this is "lets prove it to Ohtani." I just know I don't like playing the long odds and they are doing exactly that making this move. The flip side, at least they are trying to address their biggest area of concern and the guys they are bringing in are actually upgrades.

I won't hate Minasian either way, much like I've never shit on JD for the Segura deal, possibly the only thing he did that didn't piss me off at hello.

At the end of the day, they made a choice and now more than ever it's time for the players to do their bit. There are no guarantees here other than Ohtani, Giolito, and Lopez are all pending FAs.... so is Renfroe, and 1B is a big gaping hole.  If it doesn't work out they will have money to work with, sure..  but they also run the risk of digging an even deeper hole by again forfeiting draft picks to sign FAs to fill holes.

People will rush to condemn the Angels regardless of what they do, so whatever.  My guess is the clubhouse is happy to see them try to upgrade, maybe that makes a difference beyond what can be measured from our point of view as fans.

Anyone wanting to see them "go for it" you got your wish.  All I know is I want to see them keep this same energy when it comes to building the 24 team, otherwise it WILL have been pointless.

 

[Inside Pitch]

4 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

I love O'Hoppe so far and he does seem to be the real deal--but he's also still a rookie.  If for some reason he doesn't continue to live up to the hype, then the Angels have zero depth in the system to replace him. 

I completely understand you have to give up something good to get something good, but I still personally feel this was an overpay for rentals. 

Not going to lie.  I wonder how much Thaiss showing he's an actual viable 2nd catcher had to do with them being willing to move Quero.  I know some of us believed he had enough bat to not be useless, but I think everyone had concerns regarding his ability to play catcher at the highest level.

Honestly, Moniak and Thaiss may be the two guys most responsible for the team's aggressive approach this deadline.  Basically two young controllable position players making chump change at positions of need.

[jsnpritchett]

2 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

There's a very good possibility that he ends up being MInasian's "Segura".  This deal feels a bit like that one, there's a hint of hail mary to it.

Angels history being what it is, it's easy to think "this again", I wouldn't blame anyone for agreeing with you, I'm not sure what to think to be honest. Quero might be Jason Kendall 2.0, a catcher that runs well and gets on base at a really elite rate for someone his age and at his position, but he's a catcher and the position has the highest attrition rate among MiLB position players.

No idea what conversations or concerns Ohtani's reps may have passed along to the Angels, no idea if the motivation for this is "lets prove it to Ohtani." I just know I don't like playing the long odds and they are doing exactly that making this move. The flip side, at least they are trying to address their biggest area of concern and the guys they are bringing in are actually upgrades.

I won't hate Minasian either way, much like I've never shit on JD for the Segura deal, possibly the only thing he did that didn't piss me off at hello.

At the end of the day, they have made a choice and now more than ever it's time for the players to do their bit. There are no guarantees here other than Ohtani, Giolito, and Lopez are all pending FAs.... so is Renfroe, and 1B is a big gaping hole.  If it doesn't work out they will have money to work with, sure..  but they also run the risk of digging an even deeper hole by again forfeiting draft picks to sign FAs to fill holes.

People will rush to condemn the Angels regardless of what they do, so whatever.  My guess is the clubhouse is happy to see them try to upgrade, maybe that makes a difference beyond what can be measured from out point of view as fans.

Anyone wanting to see them "go for it" you got your wish.  All I know is I want to see them keep this same energy when it comes to building the 24 team, otherwise it WILL have been pointless.

 

I agree with pretty much everything you said, especially the bolded parts.  I'm all for trying to win this year--but if you're doing it predominantly with guys who'll only be here for THIS YEAR, then you better damn well make sure you actually win this year. 

[DMVol]

2 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

There's a very good possibility that he ends up being MInasian's "Segura".  This deal feels a bit like that one, there's a hint of hail mary to it.

Angels history being what it is, it's easy to think "this again", I wouldn't blame anyone for agreeing with you, I'm not sure what to think to be honest. Quero might be Jason Kendall 2.0, a catcher that runs well and gets on base at a really elite rate for someone his age and at his position, but he's a catcher and the position has the highest attrition rate among MiLB position players.

No idea what conversations or concerns Ohtani's reps may have passed along to the Angels, no idea if the motivation for this is "lets prove it to Ohtani." I just know I don't like playing the long odds and they are doing exactly that making this move. The flip side, at least they are trying to address their biggest area of concern and the guys they are bringing in are actually upgrades.

I won't hate Minasian either way, much like I've never shit on JD for the Segura deal, possibly the only thing he did that didn't piss me off at hello.

At the end of the day, they have made a choice and now more than ever it's time for the players to do their bit. There are no guarantees here other than Ohtani, Giolito, and Lopez are all pending FAs.... so is Renfroe, and 1B is a big gaping hole.  If it doesn't work out they will have money to work with, sure..  but they also run the risk of digging an even deeper hole by again forfeiting draft picks to sign FAs to fill holes.

People will rush to condemn the Angels regardless of what they do, so whatever.  My guess is the clubhouse is happy to see them try to upgrade, maybe that makes a difference beyond what can be measured from out point of view as fans.

Anyone wanting to see them "go for it" you got your wish.  All I know is I want to see them keep this same energy when it comes to building the 24 team, otherwise it WILL have been pointless.

 

^^^This^^^......If it doesn't work, it doesn't work....maybe Quero is Segura, maybe Bush becomes Chuck Finley....but if we don't make the postseason and Ohtani signs elsewhere, then try like hell to re-sign Giolito (and maybe Lopez too), somehow fix 1b, have 3b covered on the assumption Rendon will be hurt as usual, work hard to sign international guys....don't crawl in to a shell, sign Matt Harvey types and make the luxury tax threshold the be all to end all.....

[Inside Pitch]

11 hours ago, jsnpritchett said:

I agree with pretty much everything you said, especially the bolded parts.  I'm all for trying to win this year--but if you're doing it predominantly with guys who'll only be here for THIS YEAR, then you better damn well make sure you actually win this year. 

Again, I won't shit on Perry for this because the move itself while having risk is the sort of move you'd want to see your team make if it's got a chance. But Arte needs to let him cook this winter and give him the green light to make moves he feels will take them to the next level.  None of this "for the right player" BS.  

Ill say this much too, for Shohei to go on record as saying he didnt want to be traded and for the Angels to respond by making a legit effort to win...  I hope it resonates with him, because it's not been business as usual for the front office.

But yeah man..  if youre going to try to win this year..  Best be ready to check all the boxes.

[ArkyAngelsFan]

44 minutes ago, T.G. said:

Lucas Frost Giolitto - interesting family: Another uncle, Scott Frost, is a writer.

He also played QB at University of Nebraska and was Head Coach for awhile. Wonder if it's the same guy...

~ArkyAngelsFan~

[DCAngelsFan]

Hmm, trying to thread the needle on this one - giving up a lot to influence the outcomes of how many games?  

If we were actually leading the w/c race and we wanted Giolito for the playoffs, well,  maybe.  

The only reason I can think this made sense was to both give us an inside track to resign Giolito *and* to convince Ohtani to stay.  

Can't resist the obvious hindsight of "Well, if you'd just re-signed Lorensen ..."