Angels sign Carlos Estevez (2 years, $13.5 million)

[Second Base]

20 minutes ago, Taylor said:

Jeppy allegedly had a high spin rate.

Personally, I couldn't stand him, but the fact that he short armed the ball and it still went 97 and danced all over the place, I'd say you're probably right. 

[Docwaukee]

 

11 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

This seems like a "too clever" signing...like in fantasy baseball, when everyone wants the same "sleeper" guy, who ends up going much earlier than he should.

Sort of like Lorenzen, actually.

My concern is that a lot of that $7M AAV is contingent upon things happening that haven't happened yet. Maybe Estevez is better than his Coors-tainted numbers say, and we end up with a really good reliever or even newly hatched elite closer. But it is another "maybe."

that's the exact type of move we need perry to make in the bullpen instead of spending 16m on a closer.  And we absolutely need for him to get it right.  It's one of those little things that he's essentially betting his job on.  That he or someone in the org is smart enough to pull this off.  

[ten ocho recon scout]

6 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Patella tendon issues.  Had surgery to end his 2009, came back in 2010 and couldnt land on his lead leg.  He chose to call it a career so he could focus on his real love... chain smoking and milking a single beer for 5 hours.

Damn. Funny you mention that. 

I randomly hung out with him once circa 2005 or so. And this is absolutely nail on head.

[ten ocho recon scout]

4 hours ago, Taylor said:

My wife knows next to nothing about the Angels but she still remembers how much Cody Allen sucked, because we went to a game together where he blew a 3-run lead in the 9th with two outs or something like that.

She remembers that? 

And she remembers it was him, and not like any random 2 games of any given week by any random Angel pitcher thr past 7 years?

 

She's a keeper. But be careful making jokes around her. 

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

9 hours ago, cals said:

Isn't Carlos Estevez = Charlie Sheen?

 

Edited December 6, 2022 by Ace-Of-Diamonds

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

8 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Scot Shields blew out his knee...  Arm was never an issue.

 

[Angelsfan1984]

[ScruffytheJanitor]

People have Awfully strong opinions about this, and since it seems like he gets a shot at closing, I get it.

However, 7.5 Million per year for a guy with some serious upside (even with some notable question marks) is just market value. 

The key to remember -- the Bullpen is a numbers game. Relievers are so volatile that anyone of them can boom or bust in any given season. The key to having a good bullpen is either to have one of the top 10-12 guys who seem immune to this volatility OR to just have a 10 talented dudes battle it out and hope you find 4-5 guys you can trust. The Angels are clearing picking the second route, and Estevez feels like a good add there.  Now they have 8-ish guys (I am assuming Bush/Bachman stay as starters):

• Estevez
• Herget
• Loup
• Tepera
• Wantz
• Quijada
• Joyce
• Rodriguez

Up next would be Ortega/Ingram/Warren, I guess? Still feels like there i room to add another arm to the mix.

s

[totdprods]

Only need one of Devenski, Walters, Webb, Valdez, Holder to emerge too, an la Blake Parker or Bud Norris.

And I suspect we sign at least one more MLB deal reliever still, perhaps this week. 

[Angels 1961]

Another BP piece is coming

[Erstad Grit]

If Jamsen can really be acquired for 1/15 I like that idea.  

I think projecting stats cannot fully quantify how difficult it is to close.  

[Angelsjunky]

8 hours ago, Docwaukee said:

 

that's the exact type of move we need perry to make in the bullpen instead of spending 16m on a closer. 

Yes, but the problem is....

8 hours ago, Docwaukee said:

And we absolutely need for him to get it right.  It's one of those little things that he's essentially betting his job on.  That he or someone in the org is smart enough to pull this off.  

He has to get it right. He comes out looking like a genius if he can get 90% of Raisel for 40% the cost, not so much if he gets 40 for 40 (or at least, as my 14-year old daughter says, "mid").

Unfortunately, he didn't get it right with Lorenzen, and not really with Syndergaard (decent but an over-pay), Loup or Tepera (both ok overall, but really bad for awhile and prone to blowing leads). Not to mention Bradley. So he doesn't have the track record yet of making savvy pitching acquisitions, except for the guy he acquired through a great trade, and got rid of through a not-great trade (aka, salary dump). So the jury is out.

[Inside Pitch]

8 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Damn. Funny you mention that. 

I randomly hung out with him once circa 2005 or so. And this is absolutely nail on head.

Yeah.... I was hoping you'd chime in.  Anyone that saw it live knows it's true and that it was pretty hilarious.  Never seen anyone milk a beer like he did, even funnier when you saw the way Lackey, Weaver and Naps were killing beers like it was their job.

[cals]

24 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Yeah.... I was hoping you'd chime in.  Anyone that saw it live knows it's true and that it was pretty hilarious.  Never seen anyone milk a beer like he did, even funnier when you saw the way Lackey, Weaver and Naps were killing beers like it was their job.

When I ran into those guys drinking when I lived in Newport, I remember a very wasted Shields the couple of times I saw him.  Don’t think he was nursing the beers those times.

[Inside Pitch]

Just now, cals said:

When I ran into those guys drinking when I lived in Newport, I remember a very wasted Shields the couple of times I saw him.  Don’t think he was nursing the beers those times.

I mostly ran into them near you at Goat Hill, you're definitely one up on me, I never saw Shields lit up.  Also never saw Napoli NOT lit up. 

[cals]

2 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I mostly ran into them near you at Goat Hill, you're definitely one up on me, I never saw Shields lit up.  Also never saw Napoli NOT lit up. 

The one memory I have of Napoli was smoking a cigarette with him outside of the Beach Ball.  I don’t recall running into him other than that one time.  I remember seeing Lackey just bombed a couple of times there, too.  But if I’m remembering correctly most of those guys would go as a group.  I remember at least once seeing Shields there alone.

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

Yeah.... I was hoping you'd chime in.  Anyone that saw it live knows it's true and that it was pretty hilarious.  Never seen anyone milk a beer like he did, even funnier when you saw the way Lackey, Weaver and Naps were killing beers like it was their job.

That last part is about as nail on head as you could put it. 

I'll say this. When that little clique got broken up, things were never the same after.... 

[T.G.]

So, the big question is... can Carlos Estevez drink beer with the best of them?

[Stradling]

6 minutes ago, T.G. said:

So, the big question is... can Carlos Estevez drink beer with the best of them?

He’s 6’6” 277lbs. So probably. 

[Docwaukee]

3 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

Unfortunately, he didn't get it right with Lorenzen, and not really with Syndergaard (decent but an over-pay), Loup or Tepera (both ok overall, but really bad for awhile and prone to blowing leads). Not to mention Bradley. So he doesn't have the track record yet of making savvy pitching acquisitions, except for the guy he acquired through a great trade, and got rid of through a not-great trade (aka, salary dump). So the jury is out.

I'm not saying that it was wise for him to spend what he did on those 5 guys and leave other areas unattended.  But they all performed as they pretty much were paid. 

I guess the question is what would you have him do?  Pick up guys off waivers?  Sign a closer for 16m per?  Or continue to try to find value in that 3-7m range? 

I also have to wonder that now he can expect proper usage of these guys or at least they'll be deployed in the way that he intended.   

[Jason]

4 hours ago, Angels 1961 said:

Another BP piece is coming

gross

[Angelsjunky]

1 hour ago, Docwaukee said:

I'm not saying that it was wise for him to spend what he did on those 5 guys and leave other areas unattended.  But they all performed as they pretty much were paid. 

I guess the question is what would you have him do?  Pick up guys off waivers?  Sign a closer for 16m per?  Or continue to try to find value in that 3-7m range? 

I also have to wonder that now he can expect proper usage of these guys or at least they'll be deployed in the way that he intended.   

I'm not saying that he shouldn't have signed Loup and Tepera, or Estevez for that matter. I'm just saying that the jury is still out on his scouting and assessment of pitching talent. I just don't (yet) see a track record of him making savvy pitcher acquisitions, other than the initial Raisel trade. With Estevez, it seems like a bit of a "squint just right, and this could be great" deal - not unlike Lorenzen. 

It also seems like a bit of an overpay for a guy who hasn't surpassed 0.6 WAR, or had an ERA better than 3.47. The "squintiness" would make more sense if he was more of a bargain signing, like 2/$9M. But if Estevez becomes the guy Minasian hopes he can become, then great. I suppose that will mean 1+ WAR, ~3.00 ERA. If that happens, it will have been a good signing.

That said, I think Loup and Tepera will bounce back somewhat, though I also think Herget was probably playing a bit over his head (we probably won't see him repeat his 2.45 ERA, 1.5 WAR...if he does, well, we've got our new Scot Shields). I think Quijada has room to improve, and still hold out hope that Ortega can become something decent - maybe similar to what Quijada was last year.

As for what I think Minasian should do (or should have done), in an ideal world, I would have liked to see him go after someone close to elite level who strikes guys out, as the bullpen is really lacking that flamethrower. But I also realize that those guys are rare and/or get expensive fast. Maybe Estevez could be that guy - and perhaps Joyce will eventually be that guy. Barring that, I guess I prefer a budget approach to the bullpen, maybe cycling up some of the minor league guys - the starters too. Another thought is that if Canning and Rodriguez are both healthy, maybe moving Suarez back to the bullpen. 

Estevez, Herget, Quijada, Loup, and Tepera are a solid core. No one screams "elite reliever," but they're all pretty good. The next group of "question marks with experience" are Warren, Wantz, Ortega and Weiss. Maybe one or two of those guys ends up being decent. After that, well, we get to the minors and with the depth there, I think we might have a bullpen that is, if not a strength, at least good enough. But there's something about having that one guy who you can turn to.

 

[Warfarin]

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/in-signing-carlos-estevez-angels-place-faith-in-a-change-of-scenery/

Quote

The air in Denver sapped two inches of vertical carry and three inches of horizontal break from Estévez’ fastball, which by Driveline’s model is the difference between below average and elite. 

Possibly some signs for optimism in terms of helping improve his arsenal.

[southpaw]

 

[Jeff Fletcher]