Shortstop candidates for the Halos

[Angels 1961]

32 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

I doubt Anderson is available.  The Giants will probably look to move Crawford, not Estrada.

Hoerner might be possible, but if the Cubs are looking to compete, Madrigal might be the player they are trying to move instead.

Madrigal has Rendon disease

[Inside Pitch]

Right now the most likely candidates for SS are named Rengifo, Fletcher, and Velazquez.

48 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

I use DRS from fangraphs.

Probably the best stat and it's still far from perfect or even close to being a good sole measure of defense.

[Revad]

so we’ve come to this:

Elvis Andrus and Jose Iglesias won’t command anywhere near those types of numbers, but the two veteran infielders are now the best shortstop options remaining on the open market.  For other teams (like the Red Sox, Twins, Dodgers, and perhaps the Diamondbacks and Angels) that were looking for shortstop help and were at least on the periphery of the markets of the “big four,” Andrus or Iglesias might get some looks, or any needy teams might explore the trade market.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/12/cubs-finalizing-contract-with-dansby-swanson.html

 

 

[Docwaukee]

34 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Right now the most likely candidates for SS are named Rengifo, Fletcher, and Velazquez.

Probably the best stat and it's still far from perfect or even close to being a good sole measure of defense.

I like to look at DRS, DEF, and OAA plus the eye test and kind of piece it together.  I like OAA because, if I remember correctly, it's the only one that actually takes the fielder's starting spot into account.  I think OAA and DRS will have fewer discrepancies in the future because of the shift rule changes.  All still very crude and usually ends up being pretty close to using the eye test anyway but sometimes I just don't see guys enough to make that call.    

[Inside Pitch]

1 minute ago, Docwaukee said:

I like to look at DRS, DEF, and OAA plus the eye test and kind of piece it together.  I like OAA because, if I remember correctly, it's the only one that actually takes the fielder's starting spot into account.  I think OAA and DRS will have fewer discrepancies in the future because of the shift rule changes.  All still very crude and usually ends up being pretty close to using the eye test anyway but sometimes I just don't see guys enough to make that call.    

Agree across the board.  Although I've never quite known what all went into FG's DEF.   

The end of the shift will likely do more to make defensive metrics more reliable than anything the saber community has been able to put together since Statcast came into play.  Prior to statcast, places like STATS Inc and others still relied on human beings to relay the data to them so there was always the possibility of human error or miscalculation.

[oldguy]

14 minutes ago, T.G. said:

With Swanson signing with the White Sox... Angels should go get Tim Anderson 

Cubs

[Docwaukee]

3 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Agree across the board.  Although I've never quite known what all went into FG's DEF.   

The end of the shift will likely do more to make defensive metrics more reliable than anything the saber community has been able to put together since Statcast came into play.  Prior to statcast, places like STATS Inc and others still relied on human beings to relay the data to them so there was always the possibility of human error or miscalculation.

I think DEF just tries to make the value position independent by factoring in positional adjustments.  I think it's the the defensive runs component of WAR that's effectively the UZR + positional adjustment.  

[T.G.]

4 minutes ago, oldguy said:

Cubs

Doh!

[jsnpritchett]

27 minutes ago, Revad said:

so we’ve come to this:

Elvis Andrus and Jose Iglesias won’t command anywhere near those types of numbers, but the two veteran infielders are now the best shortstop options remaining on the open market.  For other teams (like the Red Sox, Twins, Dodgers, and perhaps the Diamondbacks and Angels) that were looking for shortstop help and were at least on the periphery of the markets of the “big four,” Andrus or Iglesias might get some looks, or any needy teams might explore the trade market.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/12/cubs-finalizing-contract-with-dansby-swanson.html

 

 

[Stradling]

I do wonder what a Kim trade would look like?  

[Inside Pitch]

2 minutes ago, T.G. said:

Doh!

I was waiting patiently for you to re-read what you thought you read.  lol..

[UndertheHalo]

RipBozos

[Inside Pitch]

5 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

This image should be included in the Angels' upcoming Digital Trading Cards in their "Life After Stoneman" series.

[Erstad Grit]

34 minutes ago, Revad said:

so we’ve come to this:

Elvis Andrus and Jose Iglesias won’t command anywhere near those types of numbers, but the two veteran infielders are now the best shortstop options remaining on the open market.  For other teams (like the Red Sox, Twins, Dodgers, and perhaps the Diamondbacks and Angels) that were looking for shortstop help and were at least on the periphery of the markets of the “big four,” Andrus or Iglesias might get some looks, or any needy teams might explore the trade market.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/12/cubs-finalizing-contract-with-dansby-swanson.html

 

 

Those are the two I predicted waaaaay earlier in this thread lol

[jsnpritchett]

4 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

Those are the two I predicted waaaaay earlier in this thread lol

I just have a hard time seeing Iglesias wanting to come back to the Angels--or vice versa. 

[Warfarin]

22 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Agree across the board.  Although I've never quite known what all went into FG's DEF.   

The end of the shift will likely do more to make defensive metrics more reliable than anything the saber community has been able to put together since Statcast came into play.  Prior to statcast, places like STATS Inc and others still relied on human beings to relay the data to them so there was always the possibility of human error or miscalculation.

 

16 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

I think DEF just tries to make the value position independent by factoring in positional adjustments.  I think it's the the defensive runs component of WAR that's effectively the UZR + positional adjustment.  

So given these various stats - based on last year’s numbers, it seems that Fletcher rates as above average defensively at short.

If he is able to make some modest, reasonable offensive improvements - perhaps he could be a league average SS?

[Angel Oracle]

I agree with Doc.

Swanson was far overvalued for a guy with a career .738 OPS (95 OPS+), and just a career dWAR of 5.9 in the equivalent of 5 1/2 seasons.

[AngelStew43]

I hope we don't look at Iglesias or Andrus.  Like throwing money down a hole.   Fletcher at SS, Rengifo at 2B.  Sign Lugo and another SP.  Maybe we could put something together to get Rodolfo Castillo from the Pirates, or God forbid, Gavin Lux from the Dodgers? 

[Angels 1961]

1 hour ago, Warfarin said:

I doubt Anderson is available.  The Giants will probably look to move Crawford, not Estrada.

Hoerner might be possible, but if the Cubs are looking to compete, Madrigal might be the player they are trying to move instead.

Madrigal has Rendon disease

[Inside Pitch]

Just now, Warfarin said:

So given these various stats - based on last year’s numbers, it seems that Fletcher rates as above average defensively at short.

If he is able to make some modest, reasonable offensive improvements - perhaps he could be a league average SS?

I won't speak for Doc but, I think the defense is the least of the worries with Fletcher -- it's mostly the offense. I believe Fletcher will be better, but there is no guarantee he will. How much of his downturn was due to injury vs the changes to the ball -- no clue.  I personally believe a guy with very little wiggle room is more likely to be impacted by injury than a more talented player so I have hope, but it's hope.  Fletcher is an empty batting average at his best, so even when he's going good he's pretty one dimensional offensively.  

Dude is just playing in the wrong decade.

[Angels 1961]

Does Madrigal have options left? Friend of mine is Cubs fan said they would put him at AAA

[Inside Pitch]

Just now, Angels 1961 said:

Madrigal has Rendon disease

He's also pretty much a Fletcher clone.  People can argue he's a better bet to hit for a higher batting average but like Fletcher, thats his entire game -- batting average.

[Angels 1961]

2 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I won't speak for Doc but, I think the defense is the least of the worries with Fletcher -- it's mostly the offense. I believe Fletcher will be better, but there is no guarantee he will. How much of his downturn was due to injury vs the changes to the ball -- no clue.  I personally believe a guy with very little wiggle room is more likely to be impacted by injury than a more talented player so I have hope, but it's hope.  Fletcher is an empty batting average at his best, so even when he's going good he's pretty one dimensional offensively.  

Dude is just playing in the wrong decade.

Wrong century, be good in dead ball era

[Stradling]

6 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

He's also pretty much a Fletcher clone.  People can argue he's a better bet to hit for a higher batting average but like Fletcher, thats his entire game -- batting average.

He walks more.  His OBP is 40-50 points higher than his average.

[Inside Pitch]

5 minutes ago, Stradling said:

He walks more.  His OBP is 40-50 points higher than his average.

Madrigal's career walk rate is 5.3%.  Fletcher's is 6.1%.