Minasian believes this team can be a winner. So what will it take?

[Erstad Grit]

1 minute ago, Inside Pitch said:

So it's just about your feels.  I've been there myself.  

His away stats last year are not feelings.

[Inside Pitch]

Just now, Erstad Grit said:

His away stats last year are not feelings.

Small samples for small minds -- Statisticus 3:16

[Erstad Grit]

25 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Small samples for small minds -- Statisticus 3:16

Whatever dude

I had this argument about Teheran on this board. I had this argument about Quintana on this board. Hell I had it about Pujols on this board. I wanted Tyler Anderson and took some good jabs here too. The problem with arguing about future performance is it hasn't happened yet. 

I've missed big time. I thought Raul Ibanez was a good signing lol.

 Honestly I think I'm more often proved right after the season is over. Bookmark it and check in on old Drury at the end of the season. I think 22 HR and .790 is reasonable and would be a nice season. 

[Blarg]

3 hours ago, jsnpritchett said:

Hmmm...Angels signed ZACK Cozart, then drafted Will Wilson

Speaking of Wilson, he hasn't flourished, in fact he looks kind of like a bust. 

[Lou]

2 hours ago, Erstad Grit said:

I wanted Tyler Anderson and took some good jabs here too. The problem with arguing about future performance is it hasn't happened yet. 

.

.

On 3/14/2022 at 1:03 PM, rottiesworld said:

The Angels don’t give a crap about the pitcher the could be 1 win 20 loses and still sign them as long as they are cheap to get. They would by stupid as Tyler Anderson is not going to do crap to help get the Angels into the playoffs

 

[Erstad Grit]

1 hour ago, Blarg said:

Speaking of Wilson, he hasn't flourished, in fact he looks kind of like a bust. 

That's funny I just looked up the prospect we "sold" to the Giants because I couldn't remember him. 

[BTH]

7 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

That's funny I just looked up the prospect we "sold" to the Giants because I couldn't remember him. 

He’s rule 5 eligible.

So we’ll see how valuable the Giants think he is based on whether they protect him.

[Lou]

1 hour ago, Blarg said:

Speaking of Wilson, he hasn't flourished, in fact he looks kind of like a bust. 

Remember the outrage! 

[Angel Oracle]

Not signing one year wonder Tyler Anderson for starters 

[Vlad27Trout27]

Sign Andrew benintendi. predictions for his are around 13.5 mil per year, so 54 mil over 4 years.    

 - He fills in nicely in left, he's young, low strike rates and high OBP. PPut him in front of Trout and his number will get much better. 

Add a middle infield; Segura maybe, low K rates, ok BB and pop. Makes contacts and above-average defender at 2nd. Market might not be two hot for him. 14 mil over 2 years

Get a closer! yes we had one last year but try again. Jansen 26mil over 2 years get it done! 

Add one more  BP arm, and This will be a high-risk-high award, Montero 24 mil over 3 years. But price may increase. 

Around 40+ mil for 7 wars combine (considering last years war).

 

Benefits: You get a bunch of short term deals with good values. Longest is Andrew and he could be an underrated signing, 

Line Up plus War from last year 

1. Benny lf (2.8)

2. Trout Cf (6)

3. Ward Rf (3.8)

4. Othani Dh (3.8)

5. Rendon 3rd (0.8)

6, Rengifo SS (1.6)

7. Walsh 1st (could easily switch rengifo and walsh, if walsh is back( Neg)

8. Stassi (neg. bad.)

9. Segura  (1.7)

Bp:

Closer: Jansan

SU: Montero

su: Slim JIm

MD: Quijada, Tepera, Loop, Wantz, Murphy, Joyce

[BTH]

4 minutes ago, Vlad27Trout27 said:

Around 40+ mil for 7 wars combine (considering last years war).

Your plan is fine if the Angels had $40M to spend this offseason, but I don’t think they do.

[ThisismineScios]

Based on signing a 3/4 man in the rotation, here's what I think they should do.

-Combine Suarez, Rengifo, Walsh, Adell, and/or Stassi in a trade. Also be willing to include young MIF guys not named Neto, Paris, or Blakely. I think Suarez is likely because they have Canning, C-Rod, Bush, Silseth, Daniel, Junk, and Bachman (unlikely) to replace him. Yes, he's young. But those are all young guys that can slide into his spot. Rengifo because if they truly want to upgrade SS, and are serious, you capitalize on a hot market for him. Fletcher is your 2B and 9 hole hitter. Soto is depth. Rengifo has more value than Fletcher, otherwise I'd say trade him. Walsh has value because of 2021, and Adell has value because of his tools (see Marsh). Stassi has value because of defense, but you can sign Hedges/Vazquez, or Barnhart to bridge the gap to O'Hoppe. 

-Sign an Abreu type. Don't expect MVP numbres, just quality hitting. His power numbers have gone down (15 HR), but he had 40 2B last year and an OPS+ of 133. He K'd less last year and made better contact. He could be a run producer in the 6-hole. Average defender. 

-Use the above trade pieces for a LF and SS. 2 WAR guys are the goal. 

-Unload Tepera if you can. Loup is fine. 

-Sign one more starter. Kodai is wonderful; Bassit or Manaea are floor raisers; Lorenzen is pure depth. I'd do one of the first two. 

-Unpopular opinion for a depth piece: Bellinger. The bat is chaotic and inconsistent--Player of the Week, then 14 straight K's level. But he's a very good defender and LH bat. 

[BTH]

3 minutes ago, ThisismineScios said:

Based on signing a 3/4 man in the rotation, here's what I think they should do.

-Combine Suarez, Rengifo, Walsh, Adell, and/or Stassi in a trade. Also be willing to include young MIF guys not named Neto, Paris, or Blakely. I think Suarez is likely because they have Canning, C-Rod, Bush, Silseth, Daniel, Junk, and Bachman (unlikely) to replace him. Yes, he's young. But those are all young guys that can slide into his spot. Rengifo because if they truly want to upgrade SS, and are serious, you capitalize on a hot market for him. Fletcher is your 2B and 9 hole hitter. Soto is depth. Rengifo has more value than Fletcher, otherwise I'd say trade him. Walsh has value because of 2021, and Adell has value because of his tools (see Marsh). Stassi has value because of defense, but you can sign Hedges/Vazquez, or Barnhart to bridge the gap to O'Hoppe. 

-Sign an Abreu type. Don't expect MVP numbres, just quality hitting. His power numbers have gone down (15 HR), but he had 40 2B last year and an OPS+ of 133. He K'd less last year and made better contact. He could be a run producer in the 6-hole. Average defender. 

-Use the above trade pieces for a LF and SS. 2 WAR guys are the goal. 

-Unload Tepera if you can. Loup is fine. 

-Sign one more starter. Kodai is wonderful; Bassit or Manaea are floor raisers; Lorenzen is pure depth. I'd do one of the first two. 

-Unpopular opinion for a depth piece: Bellinger. The bat is chaotic and inconsistent--Player of the Week, then 14 straight K's level. But he's a very good defender and LH bat. 

I’m not sure they’ll have enough money to sign an Abreu type and an SP.

I agree with offloading Tepera. He was “down” in way too many games this season and only pitched in back-to-back games a handful of times. I want someone who I can rely on to post.

[ThisismineScios]

Just now, Trendon said:

I’m not sure they’ll have enough money to sign an Abreu type and an SP.

I agree with offloading Tepera. He was “down” in way too many games this season and only pitched in back-to-back games a handful of times. I want someone who I can rely on to post.

Yeah wishful thinking for Abreu and Senga. I think Abreu's market will be a bit depressed. But still probably 35 mil for both. I would rather sign a quality bat than another 4-6 level SP like Lorenzen or Quintana. 

I think they can even get some minor depth piece for him. The RP market is very weak. 

[Warfarin]

7 hours ago, ThisismineScios said:

Based on signing a 3/4 man in the rotation, here's what I think they should do.

-Combine Suarez, Rengifo, Walsh, Adell, and/or Stassi in a trade. Also be willing to include young MIF guys not named Neto, Paris, or Blakely. I think Suarez is likely because they have Canning, C-Rod, Bush, Silseth, Daniel, Junk, and Bachman (unlikely) to replace him. Yes, he's young. But those are all young guys that can slide into his spot. Rengifo because if they truly want to upgrade SS, and are serious, you capitalize on a hot market for him. Fletcher is your 2B and 9 hole hitter. Soto is depth. Rengifo has more value than Fletcher, otherwise I'd say trade him. Walsh has value because of 2021, and Adell has value because of his tools (see Marsh). Stassi has value because of defense, but you can sign Hedges/Vazquez, or Barnhart to bridge the gap to O'Hoppe. 

-Sign an Abreu type. Don't expect MVP numbres, just quality hitting. His power numbers have gone down (15 HR), but he had 40 2B last year and an OPS+ of 133. He K'd less last year and made better contact. He could be a run producer in the 6-hole. Average defender. 

-Use the above trade pieces for a LF and SS. 2 WAR guys are the goal. 

-Unload Tepera if you can. Loup is fine. 

-Sign one more starter. Kodai is wonderful; Bassit or Manaea are floor raisers; Lorenzen is pure depth. I'd do one of the first two. 

-Unpopular opinion for a depth piece: Bellinger. The bat is chaotic and inconsistent--Player of the Week, then 14 straight K's level. But he's a very good defender and LH bat. 

Walsh and Adell currently have no value IMO, and I think Stassi needs to be kept because he's a decent enough catcher  and we are thin on depth.

I would keep Rengifo, because he is exactly the type of player that successful teams keep - guys who can rotate around the diamond and play multiple positions, while providing decent levels of offense.

I would stay away from Bellinger (who may not even be non-tendered).  If the Dodgers can't fix him after multiple years, i would be reluctant to go after him.  His greatest value is his CF defense, but that's moot on our team with Trout in CF.

[Pancake Bear]

What will it take to be a winner?

First, the lineup was a disaster last year. Guys who've struggled or been injured need to make it back.

This team is going nowhere if Rendon looks like 2021-2022 Rendon. If he's healthy and hasn't lost too much from his last healthy year in 2020, we've got a shot. We could really use a bounce back from Walsh. If Fletcher is the guy he was in 2019-2020, and who he showed signs of being again in July and August, that would go a long way toward stabilizing the lineup. It would really help if Stassi played more like the 2021 version of himself instead of 2022. That's four guys who had lousy seasons that we really need to improve. Even if two of them (preferably Rendon and Walsh) bounced back, that would be huge.

Rengifo taking the next step forward as well as Ward not regressing much and Trout staying at least as healthy as 2022 (preferably better) would also help. O'Hoppe and Moniak or Adell breaking out would be huge, although I don't have much faith in Adell at this point.

 

Second, the bullpen needs to improve. Bringing in Bill Hezel could be really great. We need Loup and/or Tepera to be significantly better. We don't have a lot of money to spend there - we spent it last year - so we kinda need some of those guys to do better.

 

Third, the rotation needs to keep improving. Injuries for anyone (pitching or otherwise) or a sophmore slump from Detmers would be tough. Our depth keeps improving but we need guys to take the next step forward.

 

Additions:

Anderson could be a solid move. Our defense isn't as good as the Dodgers, but I don't see him regressing too much. Based on Fangraphs' article, the changes he made sound legit. Will be a 2.5 ERA guy and All-Star again? Probably not, but even a 3.5 or better ERA would be an improvement from our starting pitching last year (which was already quite solid).

Still to come: We need a left fielder. Nimmo would obviously be ideal, but I don't know what the budget looks like at this point. I could settle for a Benintendi pretty easily, and could live with a Brantley or Haniger. What would be really tough is another Dexter Fletcher-type signing or standing pat with Moniak and Adell.

We also need a middle infielder. My top pick would be Turner, but, again, that seems unlikely unless the potential buyer(s) have told Moreno they want to go all in. I could stomach Correa - he's a dirty little cheat, but he's still a great ballplayer and I like how much he's into analytics. Bogaerts and Swanson wouldn't be my top picks, but I could see Minasian pursue Swanson due to the Atlanta connection and because he rates the best on defense. After those four, I don't really like any of the options, but I wouldn't hate it if they signed Segura and ran with a three-way middle-infield platoon with him and Fletcher and Rengifo.

Obviously the rotation could always be improved. Ohtani is an ace. Anderson and Sandoval are both really good pitchers, and Detmers is looking like he'll be a stud sooner rather than later. Suarez is a more than acceptable #5-6. Again, if the new ownership group is saying, "Let's go all in", fine: Go sign a Verlander, or a deGrom, or even Senga. It's not my money. But I don't think they're going to add $100m in payroll, so:

Realistically, a Benintendi ($14m), Segura ($13), and maybe a Drury-type ($9 - platoon partner for Walsh) might be doable, and I'd be okay with that.

Ultimately, we need guys to get healthy and not get injured. If that happens, we might have a shot to compete, but it also depends on how much we can improve depth with outside acquisitions and how much money we have to do that.

[ThisismineScios]

16 hours ago, Warfarin said:

Walsh and Adell currently have no value IMO, and I think Stassi needs to be kept because he's a decent enough catcher  and we are thin on depth.

I would keep Rengifo, because he is exactly the type of player that successful teams keep - guys who can rotate around the diamond and play multiple positions, while providing decent levels of offense.

I would stay away from Bellinger (who may not even be non-tendered).  If the Dodgers can't fix him after multiple years, i would be reluctant to go after him.  His greatest value is his CF defense, but that's moot on our team with Trout in CF.

I know I'm alone on Adell Trade Island, but not Walsh. He had 2 good years (20-21) and had an injury that nobody quite knows how it affected him. Also the hitting coaches were clearly not doing anyone favors. He's a LH heavy pull hitter coming into a no-shift league in 2023. And a solid defender. I think several teams see him as a bounce back candidate. 

[Warfarin]

15 hours ago, ThisismineScios said:

I know I'm alone on Adell Trade Island, but not Walsh. He had 2 good years (20-21) and had an injury that nobody quite knows how it affected him. Also the hitting coaches were clearly not doing anyone favors. He's a LH heavy pull hitter coming into a no-shift league in 2023. And a solid defender. I think several teams see him as a bounce back candidate. 

Same as I mentioned in the other thread about Adell.  Walsh is coming off a really bad year and an injury.  Teams simply don't give up trade assets for players like that, especially a first baseman.  He most certainly can bounce back and perform well, but again, his value is very low, which is precisely why this is NOT the time to trade him (or Adell).

[Angelsfan1984]

1 hour ago, Warfarin said:

Same as I mentioned in the other thread about Adell.  Walsh is coming off a really bad year and an injury.  Teams simply don't give up trade assets for players like that, especially a first baseman.  He most certainly can bounce back and perform well, but again, his value is very low, which is precisely why this is NOT the time to trade him (or Adell).

If they are performing well for such low cost , why would you then trade them? 

[Warfarin]

1 hour ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

If they are performing well for such low cost , why would you then trade them? 

Most generally won't do that, but it's possible that someone like that can be traded if the team feels that they won't continue performing that way moving forward.  Different evaluators have different takes on performance, and so on and so forth.

[ThisismineScios]

4 hours ago, Warfarin said:

Same as I mentioned in the other thread about Adell.  Walsh is coming off a really bad year and an injury.  Teams simply don't give up trade assets for players like that, especially a first baseman.  He most certainly can bounce back and perform well, but again, his value is very low, which is precisely why this is NOT the time to trade him (or Adell).

I think we underestimate these things a lot of times. I guarantee you Cody Bellinger will have a market, despite really bad years in '21 and '22. Teams focus on things other than straight statistical performance. I'm not saying the Angels will get a great asset for Walsh. I'm saying they can trade him and a prospect for something. There have been some rumors that some teams have checked in on him and are interested. Just something to keep an eye on. 

[cysomeawfulpitcher]

Getting a new GM is what it takes.

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, cysomeawfulpitcher said:

Getting a new GM is what it takes.

This GM is fine. 

[Warfarin]

1 hour ago, ThisismineScios said:

I think we underestimate these things a lot of times. I guarantee you Cody Bellinger will have a market, despite really bad years in '21 and '22. Teams focus on things other than straight statistical performance. I'm not saying the Angels will get a great asset for Walsh. I'm saying they can trade him and a prospect for something. There have been some rumors that some teams have checked in on him and are interested. Just something to keep an eye on. 

I agree that Bellinger will have a market, but I doubt anyone would trade for him, or trade anything of note for him I should say.  If he is non-tendered, then of course he'll get attention - just as Walsh and Adell would if they were "set free," so to speak.

But I really doubt anyone would trade a significant asset for Bellinger, given his immense offensive struggles the last two years.

[TempeAngel]

On 11/8/2022 at 6:45 AM, angelsnationtalk said:

To start, I think it starts with adding Turner or Correa

Do you really think that is a possibility?

Come on man!