Official 2022-23 Offseason Hot Stove Thread

[Angels 1961]

3 hours ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

Why is SS more demanding than 2B? they both have as much ground to cover with the end of the shift. With a runner being held on 1B there's even more ground to cover. just wondering

Longer throw to 1B

[Docwaukee]

I just can't imagine Minasian going some overly complicated route at this point where he trades guys away to make holes and then tries to fill them with the FA leftovers.  

 

[BTH]

@Angels 1961

[tdawg87]

4 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

I just can't imagine Minasian going some overly complicated route at this point where he trades guys away to make holes and then tries to fill them with the FA leftovers.  

 

It honestly doesn't make sense at this point. 

He's clearly had a plan this offseason: Build depth. He has done a solid job of that overall. Perhaps even a good job. But I don't think he's making any big trades, especially ones involving players who are supposed to seriously contribute in 2023. 

Of course you always look to improve any way you can. I just think the rotation is good enough to not need a guy like Lopez (for what he would cost). You can always use pitching. But the goal is to improve the team overall.

Ward, Suarez, and Rengifo were worth 7 fWAR in 2022. 

[Warfarin]

19 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

It honestly doesn't make sense at this point. 

He's clearly had a plan this offseason: Build depth. He has done a solid job of that overall. Perhaps even a good job. But I don't think he's making any big trades, especially ones involving players who are supposed to seriously contribute in 2023. 

Of course you always look to improve any way you can. I just think the rotation is good enough to not need a guy like Lopez (for what he would cost). You can always use pitching. But the goal is to improve the team overall.

Ward, Suarez, and Rengifo were worth 7 fWAR in 2022. 

Agreed.  I don't think anyone is really arguing that Ward is untradeable.  But I think it's fairly clear that right now, OF is one of our weakest spots on the team in terms of depth.  The starting OF is good right now with Trout, Renfroe, and Ward.  But if one of them gets hurt, or if we trade away one of them, that leaves this team in a poor spot.

Our pitching is stronger than our hitting.  We are trying to build depth.  It does not really make sense to trade away from our weakest position, barring getting ridiculously good value in a trade.

[Angels 1961]

53 minutes ago, Trendon said:

@Angels 1961

Just another halo that will be in playoffs. My dream of him becoming halo closer has come to an end

[Docwaukee]

14 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Just another halo that will be in playoffs. My dream of him becoming halo closer has come to an end

You need better dreams.  

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, tdawg87 said:

It honestly doesn't make sense at this point. 

He's clearly had a plan this offseason: Build depth. He has done a solid job of that overall. Perhaps even a good job. But I don't think he's making any big trades, especially ones involving players who are supposed to seriously contribute in 2023. 

Of course you always look to improve any way you can. I just think the rotation is good enough to not need a guy like Lopez (for what he would cost). You can always use pitching. But the goal is to improve the team overall.

Ward, Suarez, and Rengifo were worth 7 fWAR in 2022. 

There's a difference between depth and overt redundancy.  At this point it's crazy complicated to fill a hole by creating another one.  If you look at the major league roster, it works.  Granted it would be nice to have a better SS or a 6th starter or a better 4th OFer.  But is it really a good idea to make 3 moves to fill one spot and keep everything else about the same instead of just making one move to fill that one spot?  

[Inside Pitch]

17 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

But is it really a good idea to make 3 moves to fill one spot and keep everything else about the same instead of just making one move to fill that one spot?  

Some of these proposals remind me of these old Bill Keane, Family Circus comics where the little kids run around in circles only to end up right back where they were.

[Second Base]

17 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

There's a difference between depth and overt redundancy.  At this point it's crazy complicated to fill a hole by creating another one.  If you look at the major league roster, it works.  Granted it would be nice to have a better SS or a 6th starter or a better 4th OFer.  But is it really a good idea to make 3 moves to fill one spot and keep everything else about the same instead of just making one move to fill that one spot?  

I still think at this point you can deal Ward, if a good and inexpensive starting pitcher is available in return for him. Rengifo can play the outfield and so can Walsh. So can Drury and Urshela too if they wanted. 

[tdawg87]

9 minutes ago, Second Base said:

I still think at this point you can deal Ward, if a good and inexpensive starting pitcher is available in return for him. Rengifo can play the outfield and so can Walsh. So can Drury and Urshela too if they wanted. 

But how much does that improve the team over signing a guy like Wacha and keeping Ward? 

Those guys can play outfield, sure, but I'd rather they not have to.

[Angels 1961]

13 minutes ago, Second Base said:

I still think at this point you can deal Ward, if a good and inexpensive starting pitcher is available in return for him. Rengifo can play the outfield and so can Walsh. So can Drury and Urshela too if they wanted. 

You lose a very good bat.

[Angels 1961]

2 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

But how much does that improve the team over signing a guy like Wacha and keeping Ward? 

Those guys can play outfield, sure, but I'd rather they not have to.

All this talk of 6-man rotation or a 5.5-man rotation. Just use a 5-man rotation. Have extra man on bench. 

[Docwaukee]

3 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

All this talk of 6-man rotation or a 5.5-man rotation. Just use a 5-man rotation. Have extra man on bench. 

they'd still need another starter.  It's not about starts.  It's about innings.  

[Stradling]

Just now, Docwaukee said:

they'd still need another starter.  It's not about starts.  It's about innings.  

If we want to complicate things you sign Profar and Fulmer, trade Ward for Lopez.  

[Docwaukee]

20 minutes ago, Second Base said:

I still think at this point you can deal Ward, if a good and inexpensive starting pitcher is available in return for him. Rengifo can play the outfield and so can Walsh. So can Drury and Urshela too if they wanted. 

what have you gained over just signing a pitcher that might not be quite as good?  

If Ward played for another team we'd have been discussing how to acquire him.  And the conclusion would have been 'why would X team want to trade him?  He's cheap and productive'.  

[Angels 1961]

1 minute ago, Docwaukee said:

they'd still need another starter.  It's not about starts.  It's about innings.  

I understand that but right now you have 5 starters. You sign and Wacha or Cueto how many starts would they get. I think starters like Wacha or Cueto would rather pitch in 5 man. Most teams use 5 man. 

[ukyah]

5 hours ago, Second Base said:

I rephrased it because idiot was too harsh, I'm sorry about that. Crazy, yes, but not an idiot. 

Ward's season numbers are inflated by the ridiculously hot start he had, and then by a September spent murdering lesser pitchers when it didn't matter. 

During the months it matters most, June, July and August, he posted an OBP under .300 and was a black hole in a lineup filled with black holes. 

man, you just triggered the shit out of me. for a supposed "scout" this is some dog shit analysis. why do we always discount the good and inflate the bad? he was legitimately better than trout and ohtani until he got hurt. played hurt for a long time because the team literally had nobody better to play there, then gets healthy and destroys again. it's a fact that when healthy he was crushing pitching. it's also a fact that when he was hitting poorly he was definitively injured. the thing is it wasn't even flukey, his success is supported by a lot of measurables as repeatable.

and "lesser pitchers"? get out of here with that laz-y-boy analysis. should we discount trout and ohtani's numbers against lesser pitchers when it didn't matter?

[Angels 1961]

6 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

they'd still need another starter.  It's not about starts.  It's about innings.  

Keep Davidson in BP him and Barria could spot start. Use pitchers in minors Silseth, Canning among others. 

[Angels 1961]

6 minutes ago, Stradling said:

If we want to complicate things you sign Profar and Fulmer, trade Ward for Lopez.  

You would have to trade Ward first. Profar wants to start. Fulmer, Lopez and Profar make this a better team minus Ward?

[Pancake Bear]

Trying to make four moves to fill one hole feels like video game management that doesn't take anything else into account - like clubhouse chemistry. 

[Angels 1961]

1 minute ago, Pancake Bear said:

Trying to make four moves to fill one hole feels like video game management that doesn't take anything else into account - like clubhouse chemistry. 

Do you want clubhouse chemistry or do you want to win. Something Trevor Bauer said 

[Docwaukee]

8 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

I understand that but right now you have 5 starters. You sign and Wacha or Cueto how many starts would they get. I think starters like Wacha or Cueto would rather pitch in 5 man. Most teams use 5 man. 

they would get 27.  

367 different players made at least one start last year.  That's about 11 per team.   162 split up 5 ways is 32 starts each.  21 guys made 32 or more starts last year.   72 made 27 or more starts.  114  players made between 10 and 26 starts. Most teams pitch on 4 days rest but they certainly do not have a 5 man rotation.  Maybe most would think that's semantics but I wouldn't agree.  

Last year Wacha pitched on 5 days rest in 10 of his 23 starts.  He also missed time because of injury.  

Cueto did so in about half of his starts.  

I think they'll be fine making starts every 6 days.  

[mmc]

[Angels 1961]

Suarez for Kim