New Rules Next Year

[Stradling]

Do you think as a fan the game will be more enjoyable to watch with the new rules?  

My belief is we will see the game return to more of what it once was, which was a faster game with more action plays. I am not sure we will see an immediate return of the hit and run, which is unfortunate, but we will see more stolen bases.  We will see more base hits.  We should see more swings early in the count, which might lead to pitchers pitching deeper into games.  We should see more value placed on good defensive players with range because that will be more important than this year.  

The lack of shift won’t help our situation with Velazquez, Fletcher or Rengifo in the batters box.  But we could see more hits for Walsh and Ohtani.  

Are you looking forward to watching the game with these new rules? 

[Blarg]

I like the pitch clock, Ohtani will hate it. I don't like the pick off rule. The shift only exposed how one dimensional players had become and removing it doesn't make them any better hitters. 

[Dtwncbad]

I am just glad they went with the slightly larger bases rather than declaring the dirt between the bases is “hot lava.”

[Biergott]

The pick off rule stands out to me.  What happens after two pickoffs?  Basically a free stolen base.  That rule boggles my mind.

pitch clock in ok with as long as they also enforce the batters and their pressing rituals as well

the bigger bases won’t have much impact except for maybe at first in reducing injuries.  

the shift rule needs some clarification where some stadiums have different dimensions of the dirt, so it becomes a huge grey area.  That said I do like the end of the shift.  Could Increase the value of base hits and small ball again.

dump the pickoff rule, clarify the shift rule with different dirt configurations and I wouldn’t say I’m happy with the changes but I don’t hate them either

[AngelsLakersFan]

4 hours ago, Blarg said:

I like the pitch clock, Ohtani will hate it. I don't like the pick off rule. The shift only exposed how one dimensional players had become and removing it doesn't make them any better hitters. 

If they are going to limit pick offs they should bring back the old fake to third, throw to first move.

What I find interesting about the shift rule is that, you mention it won't make these guys better hitters, but it will make them more successful hitters. Offense around the league will rise because pull hitters will see more success. Guys like David Fletcher will be hurt the most because they won't see any benefit from the new rules. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

37 minutes ago, Biergott said:

The pick off rule stands out to me.  What happens after two pickoffs?  Basically a free stolen base.  That rule boggles my mind.

pitch clock in ok with as long as they also enforce the batters and their pressing rituals as well

the bigger bases won’t have much impact except for maybe at first in reducing injuries.  

the shift rule needs some clarification where some stadiums have different dimensions of the dirt, so it becomes a huge grey area.  That said I do like the end of the shift.  Could Increase the value of base hits and small ball again.

dump the pickoff rule, clarify the shift rule with different dirt configurations and I wouldn’t say I’m happy with the changes but I don’t hate them either

Since infield dimensions aren't defined, I wonder if we will see teams alter their fields, and in turn if the league will then standardize those dimensions.

[Dtwncbad]

44 minutes ago, Biergott said:

 

The pick off rule stands out to me.  What happens after two pickoffs?  Basically a free stolen base.

 

No, you can still attempt a third pickoff.  The runner is awarded the next base only if the third pickoff attempt is unsuccessful.

So it’s not like after two pickoff attempts the runner can take a massive lead (so that they can basically get a “free stolen base.)  If they do that they will get picked off.

I think the spirit of the rule is probably fine. If you can’t pick a guy off with that many attempts, then the additional attempts are really nothing more than a waste of time.  So you accept the size of that lead as earned and pitch to the batter.

[AngelsLakersFan]

4 hours ago, Stradling said:

Do you think as a fan the game will be more enjoyable to watch with the new rules?  

My belief is we will see the game return to more of what it once was, which was a faster game with more action plays. I am not sure we will see an immediate return of the hit and run, which is unfortunate, but we will see more stolen bases.  We will see more base hits.  We should see more swings early in the count, which might lead to pitchers pitching deeper into games.  We should see more value placed on good defensive players with range because that will be more important than this year.  

The lack of shift won’t help our situation with Velazquez, Fletcher or Rengifo in the batters box.  But we could see more hits for Walsh and Ohtani.  

Are you looking forward to watching the game with these new rules? 

The new rules definitely promote more three true outcome play, and this is why I have not been a fan of banning the shift. The rules will certainly increase batting averages for pull hitters, which reinforces the validity of the swing for the fences approach. More hits means an increase in the offensive environment which devalues stolen bases and hit and run play, despite the other rules that make them easier. Additionally an increase in the offensive environment will increase the value of taking a walk.

We could argue that the shift has devalued defense at second base, and this is maybe true, but the shift ban also devalues defense at one infield position in situations where the shift would typically be employed since the fielder is forced to play sub optimally. This is maybe a wash. If the offensive environment increases significantly teams will be incentivized to trade defense for offense in the infield.

[Biergott]

5 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

No, you can still attempt a third pickoff.  The runner is awarded the next base only if the third pickoff attempt is unsuccessful.

So it’s not like after two pickoff attempts the runner can take a massive lead (so that they can basically get a “free stolen base.)  If they do that they will get picked off.

I think the spirit of the rule is probably fine. If you can’t pick a guy off with that many attempts, then the additional attempts are really nothing more than a waste of time.  So you accept the size of that lead as earned and pitch to the batter.

Thanks for clarifying this, most articles about the new rules oddly don’t have this one in there.  Weird.

Appreciated 

[T.G.]

“Much as I would have fought this truth when I worked for a club, it’s better when games are won or lost by players making big plays … rather than by front offices developing just the proper algorithm to make sure that third infielder on the right side is positioned exactly where the ball is going to be hit.”

Guess who said that?

Spoiler

Theo Epstein

https://www.bleachernation.com/cubs/2022/06/10/theo-epstein-talks-about-limits-on-shifting-and-how-it-could-actually-bring-back-great-defense/

 

Edited October 7, 2022 by T.G.

[Stradling]

7 minutes ago, T.G. said:

“Much as I would have fought this truth when I worked for a club, it’s better when games are won or lost by players making big plays … rather than by front offices developing just the proper algorithm to make sure that third infielder on the right side is positioned exactly where the ball is going to be hit.”

Guess who said that?

  Reveal hidden contents

Theo Epstein

https://www.bleachernation.com/cubs/2022/06/10/theo-epstein-talks-about-limits-on-shifting-and-how-it-could-actually-bring-back-great-defense/

 

Yep. He’s right. 

[HeavenlyHalos]

On 10/6/2022 at 1:03 PM, AngelsLakersFan said:

If they are going to limit pick offs they should bring back the old fake to third, throw to first move.

What I find interesting about the shift rule is that, you mention it won't make these guys better hitters, but it will make them more successful hitters. Offense around the league will rise because pull hitters will see more success. Guys like David Fletcher will be hurt the most because they won't see any benefit from the new rules. 

Fletcher's biggest issue is that he's terrible. The shift has nothing to do with it

[AngelsLakersFan]

6 hours ago, HeavenlyHalos said:

Fletcher's biggest issue is that he's terrible. The shift has nothing to do with it

I mean that is a big problem for him too, but with the banning of the shift next year he will be even more terrible than he is now.

[Stradling]

6 hours ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

I mean that is a big problem for him too, but with the banning of the shift next year he will be even more terrible than he is now.

What’s crazy is the shift won’t help him offensively, but it will increase his value defensively at 2nd. 

[Lou]

The pickoff rule is stupid.

[Stradling]

12 minutes ago, Lou said:

The pickoff rule is stupid.

I agree. It’s the only rule I don’t care for. Even then it allows you to pick off the runner after two attempts. 

[Lou]

21 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I agree. It’s the only rule I don’t care for. Even then it allows you to pick off the runner after two attempts. 

How many times a year do you see a pitcher throw over to 1B three consecutive times? 

Maybe twice?

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, Lou said:

How many times a year do you see a pitcher throw over to 1B three consecutive times? 

Maybe twice?

3 times in an at bat, a lot. 

[Blarg]

33 minutes ago, Lou said:

How many times a year do you see a pitcher throw over to 1B three consecutive times? 

Maybe twice?

I believe the thinking is with a pitch clock the pitcher can bail out of the timer making a throw to first, resetting the clock. I can see the Yankees and Red Sox doing this every time a runner is on first. They are probably the cause of half the rule changes like mound visits by the catcher and changing out  half dozen relief pitchers per inning.

[AngelsLakersFan]

5 hours ago, Stradling said:

What’s crazy is the shift won’t help him offensively, but it will increase his value defensively at 2nd. 

I think the defense is a wash because he’s now going to be forced to play out of position half the time.

[Stradling]

2 hours ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

I think the defense is a wash because he’s now going to be forced to play out of position half the time.

Well he has great range at 2nd base, and he has good hands for a 2nd baseman.  So he improves while others might see a dip in their value defensively.

[AngelsLakersFan]

16 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Well he has great range at 2nd base, and he has good hands for a 2nd baseman.  So he improves while others might see a dip in their value defensively.

Good point. As an above average defender he may see increased value as defense at second base falls across the league. 

[Docwaukee]

I agree the shift helps poorer defenders.  

I think the new rules on the shift will essentially help pull hitters that hit the ball hard.  I like it, but I don't think it's going to change guys approaches on putting the ball in play that much.  

[ukyah]

i'm all for them. i would have been ecstatic with robot umps too. they should also install hawk eye from tennis along the lines and whichever other way it could possibly be effective.

[AngelsLakersFan]

2 hours ago, Docwaukee said:

I agree the shift helps poorer defenders.  

I think the new rules on the shift will essentially help pull hitters that hit the ball hard.  I like it, but I don't think it's going to change guys approaches on putting the ball in play that much.  

Im curious to see if strikeouts go up because of this. I don't expect a large effect but I think there is a chance some guys will 'pull more' and that potentially some lesser middle infielders might be replaced with slightly better hitters.