How much blame or success can we put on hitting and pitching coaches for player performance?

[Swordsman78]

18 minutes ago, Just Sayin said:

Orioles have the lowest payroll in the American League....(possibly the majors as well?) and are vying for a wild card spot.

That, to me is exciting.  
 

Where was Baltimore predicted to finish in their division?  The season is far from over, but that team isn’t backing down to anybody.

Good things happen with a tight-knit group.  But were they already “tight-knit” when they were assembled as a team?  Or did the coaching staff create the appropriate environment?  
 

With all the egos a coaching staff must deal with at that level, I like to think environment plays as big a factor as anything else.  When do you pat ‘em on the back?  Or when do you give them a kick in the ass?

It all starts at the top.  
 

Some people like to call it “culture”....

Whatever.  It’s up to the coaches to create that environment based on their personnel.  It’s up to the players to buy in. 
 

Class is in session in Baltimore.  Lowest payroll.  That guy has ‘em playing some ball!!!!
 

A manager or coach needs to be able to look himself in the eye when the season ends and be honest and ask himself “did I honestly get more out of this ballclub than was expected?”

You either did or you didn’t.  Nobody cares who got injured or who got traded before the deadline.  You either did or you didn’t.

It goes to show that the star-studded lineups aren’t always the path.  You think the O’s are all geared-up in the clubhouse right now getting ready for whoever they’re playing tonight?

HELL yes they are.  They’re talking about it.  They’re loving every minute of this.  Have we got that going on in our clubhouse? 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What are Baltimore’s relevant injuries this year?   

[Just Sayin]

I’m not an Oriole fan.  They did lose 110 games last season.  That can be a little injurious....
 

They are in what is arguably the toughest division in the American League.  That, too can “leave a mark”

I’m guessing they weren’t picked to win that division? Let alone earn a playoff spot?

They still haven’t clinched anything, but they’ve exceeded the expectations of “the experts”

They also SOLD at the trade deadline.  Trey Mancini is no slouch nor is Jorge Lopez last I checked.  One would think that would weaken their roster.

Maybe a few oriole fans may tell you that was actually worse than an injury because neither player will be back.  
 

Yet they’re still chugging along.  

Why? 
 

Maybe they just give a f***

It’s a rather harsh thing to say, but maybe that indeed is the case.  It’s not an easy thing to find this day.  A lineup “riddled” with players who give a f*** 

You can’t deny they are over-achieving. 

They may tank.  Losing Mancini and Lopez at the trade deadline certainly didn’t help them out in the short term. 
 

They’ve already exceeded their win total in 2021 with 45 games still left to play. 

I wish I could point to some positive things we have done this season.  But I honestly can’t.
 

I’m not an Oriole fan.  I’m an Angel fan.  Since 1969.

But give credit where credit is due.  I can tip my cap to the O’s.  I have no problem with that.  They’ve earned it.

Perhaps we could all learn something by taking note of and watching what they’ve done.  Again....with the LOWEST payroll.  
 

 

 

 

[Blarg]

The Angels will never have a low payroll team under the current ownership. 

[ukyah]

3 hours ago, Just Sayin said:

I’m not an Oriole fan.  They did lose 110 games last season.  That can be a little injurious....
 

They are in what is arguably the toughest division in the American League.  That, too can “leave a mark”

I’m guessing they weren’t picked to win that division? Let alone earn a playoff spot?

They still haven’t clinched anything, but they’ve exceeded the expectations of “the experts”

They also SOLD at the trade deadline.  Trey Mancini is no slouch nor is Jorge Lopez last I checked.  One would think that would weaken their roster.

Maybe a few oriole fans may tell you that was actually worse than an injury because neither player will be back.  
 

Yet they’re still chugging along.  

Why? 
 

Maybe they just give a f***

It’s a rather harsh thing to say, but maybe that indeed is the case.  It’s not an easy thing to find this day.  A lineup “riddled” with players who give a f*** 

You can’t deny they are over-achieving. 

They may tank.  Losing Mancini and Lopez at the trade deadline certainly didn’t help them out in the short term. 
 

They’ve already exceeded their win total in 2021 with 45 games still left to play. 

I wish I could point to some positive things we have done this season.  But I honestly can’t.
 

I’m not an Oriole fan.  I’m an Angel fan.  Since 1969.

But give credit where credit is due.  I can tip my cap to the O’s.  I have no problem with that.  They’ve earned it.

Perhaps we could all learn something by taking note of and watching what they’ve done.  Again....with the LOWEST payroll.  
 

 

 

 

the orioles have a talented young roster because they've lost for as long as the sun has been hot. i'm glad that they're winning again because i like to see different franchises succeed, but interminable losing is for the birds. the angels problem is, they lose without ever building.

 

(did you see what i did?)

[Tank]

On 8/15/2022 at 2:45 PM, T.G. said:

I will take this a step further and question how coaching staffs are even assembled today.  Seems like MLB (for the most part) has moved away from managers selecting their staffs and now front offices are dictating who is going to be on the coaching staff.  I don't know if that's a good thing or not.  The front office seems to have more overall power than ever before - dictating lineups, shifts, etc.  I find it interesting when players are on the field, they have to refer to cards to tell them where to stand.

I have no idea what makes a good coach.  They seem to get much of the blame when things go bad and not much credit when things are going well.

Seems to me baseball has become more science and less art.  I don't think I like that very much.  They've taken a simple game and made it much more complex. All this talk about launch angles and spin rates is getting to be a bit much.  I know this might be a bit off topic, but I think coaches are coaching different things now.

 

This analogy is fair. It made me think of Rocky IV and the differences in how Rocky prepared for the fight vs. how the Russian prepared for it.

 

[ten ocho recon scout]

16 minutes ago, Tank said:

This analogy is fair. It made me think of Rocky IV and the differences in how Rocky prepared for the fight vs. how the Russian prepared for it.

 

It was funny, because Stallone showed the Russian was bad because he was using steroids.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Stallone

[ScottT]

Zero when it comes to Jesse Chavez.

w

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F

[Jeff Fletcher]

This thread assumes that players do what coaches tell them. 

[ThisismineScios]

11 hours ago, Tank said:

This analogy is fair. It made me think of Rocky IV and the differences in how Rocky prepared for the fight vs. how the Russian prepared for it.

 

Confirmed. The Angels need to train in the Russian mountains this off-season. 

[Tank]

3 hours ago, ThisismineScios said:

Confirmed. The Angels need to train in the Russian mountains this off-season. 

knee-deep snow and chopping firewood outside will help them become better hitters with two-strikes. 

it's sad, really, that no one has focused on this before now. i need to call perry.

[ten ocho recon scout]

8 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

This thread assumes that players do what coaches tell them. 

This is a huge point.

I can't comment on baseball. In my travels in life, I've been close friends with MLB all stars. MLB players. MLB scrubs. And minor league washout.

I've asked them tons of questions. "How come this, how come that". But I have no idea. I never played it myself at a high enough level.

That said. I do another sport at just below the pro level. I've never come close to even attempting to do it pro (paid), but train with several who do.

So I know the difference between listening, and guys who listen. Versus not listening, and guys who don't.

A good coach can point out things you're doing wrong. Point out poor mechanics, bad habits, predictable tendencies, etc etc. A great coach can correct them.

But it comes down to the athlete to actually have the discipline to change what they're doing. Sometimes you just can't. Whatever the change is is just too unatural to them. (Especially if for 10 years that bad habit worked for you).

But it's like hiring a personal trainer. He can work you out for 2 hours a day every day. He can't help if you spend the other 22 hours a day eating shitty, drinking, and not sleeping.

Edited August 18, 2022 by ten ocho recon scout

[Tank]

2 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

That said. I do another sport at just below the pro level. I've never come close to even attempting to do it pro (paid), but train with several who do.

the pole vault is such a cool event. good luck to you in paris 2024.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Just now, Tank said:

the pole vault is such a cool event. good luck to you in paris 2024.

If I screw it up again this year, I'm finally giving it up and switching to hackey sack. 

[Tank]

Just now, ten ocho recon scout said:

If I screw it up again this year, I'm finally giving it up and switching to hackey sack. 

completely understandable. 

you know i'll support you whatever you decide to do.

[ten ocho recon scout]

3 hours ago, Tank said:

completely understandable. 

you know i'll support you whatever you decide to do.

Watch Iron Eagle on a projector in my front yard, for all the neighbors to see?

[Tank]

2 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Watch Iron Eagle on a projector in my front yard, for all the neighbors to see?

I’d do that once.

Will there be any hummus during served during the movie?

[eligrba]

17 hours ago, Tank said:

knee-deep snow and chopping firewood outside will help them become better hitters with two-strikes. 

it's sad, really, that no one has focused on this before now. i need to call perry.

Uhmmm....

Trout re injures himself swinging an axe and is out for the winter.

Rendon severs his leg while swinging an axe and is out for the winter.

Ward severs Rengifo's leg while swinging an axe.  Rengifo is it out for the winter. Reed makes some coaching suggestions to Ward.

 

 

The idea sounds like the setup for a Donner Party outcome.

[eligrba]

17 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

But it's like hiring a personal trainer. He can work you out for 2 hours a day every day. He can't help if you spend the other 22 hours a day eating shitty, drinking, and not sleeping.

I'm told this is the Angels' minor league model.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you.  I'm here all night....be sure to try the veal.

[Tank]

1 hour ago, eligrba said:

Uhmmm....

Trout re injures himself swinging an axe and is out for the winter.

Rendon severs his leg while swinging an axe and is out for the winter.

Ward severs Rengifo's leg while swinging an axe.  Rengifo is it out for the winter. Reed makes some coaching suggestions to Ward.

 

 

The idea sounds like the setup for a Donner Party outcome.

[cysomeawfulpitcher]

This is the first season in many where all sides are to blame for failure.

[greginpsca]

On 8/17/2022 at 2:02 PM, Tank said:

knee-deep snow and chopping firewood outside will help them become better hitters with two-strikes. 

it's sad, really, that no one has focused on this before now. i need to call perry.

Right now, they would miss the log 3 out of 4 times.

[Tank]

3 hours ago, greginpsca said:

Right now, they would miss the log 3 out of 4 times.

I’ll be honest, that still seems a bit too optimistic. 

[eligrba]

2 minutes ago, Tank said:

I’ll be honest, that still seems a bit too optimistic. 

You're underestimating the impact of coaching. 

[Tank]

3 minutes ago, eligrba said:

You're underestimating the impact of coaching. 

You’re right.

they’d probably miss the log 11 out of 2 times with our current coaching staff.

[BTH]

On 8/17/2022 at 9:12 AM, Jeff Fletcher said:

This thread assumes that players do what coaches tell them. 

If the players aren’t doing what the coaches are telling them, that seems to be a bad indictment of the coaches.