Manager in 2023

[stormngt]

3 hours ago, disarcina said:

Scioscia isn't coming back to this mess.  He's old school and his managerial style was passe' four years. ago when he left. It's more so now.  DARIN ERSTAD ! -- although his all out effort, hustle style might be too taxing for today's players.

I am going to be honest, they needed more old school.  Based on Maddens comments, the Angels treat sabermetrics like a religion and I think that's one of the problems.

However, I understand it's not happening with Scioscia.

[failos]

15 hours ago, Roy Hobbs said:

Erstad has not coached at Nebraska since 2019.

He lives in Nebraska

[T.G.]

1 hour ago, failos said:

He lives in Nebraska

It’s 2022, he can telecommute.

[cals]

5 minutes ago, T.G. said:

It’s 2022, he can telecommute.

I was just in Nebraska and I’m pretty sure most there are still using dial-up.

[Hubs]

17 hours ago, Swordsman78 said:

He may not be a troll, but the OP was.   It would be better received had he put forth pros and cons and provide his thought process.  Mebbe that's too much to ask tho.

I am the OP. And to be clear, Ive been posting for 18 years on this site. 

Nevin has utterly totally sucked as a manager. The buck stops with him, and I seriously doubt that Maddon would have this team in the same position. I understood why they fired him and I liked him being protective of Trout with the Mariners, but he's gone 16-30 in 46 games. That's worse than any stretch I can remember.

He seems to make weird choices like playing Marsh defensively in Left, when Trout has been out, and playing the worst CF of the three OF (Ward) in CF. Then he'll try something else.

His relief pitching decisions are baffling even to someone who watched Maddon for two seasons. Iglesias should never pitch in tie games. Ever. Peguero sucks in close games too. 

The lineup is questionable. The defensive positioning is questionable. Players have long slumps hitting wise and they just keep grinding. Walsh's swing is so messed up right now and Marsh is striking out more than 40% of the time under Nevin. 

Players must've been told to take more pitches, and they are watching strike three too often.

Pinch hitting is questionable. 

He has too quick of a hook with starters. Mound visits are non-existent. 

Scioscia had his faults, but these last three plus seasons have shown that maybe we all thought he was worse than he was.

 

 

 

 

[Hubs]

14 hours ago, disarcina said:

Scioscia isn't coming back to this mess.  He's old school and his managerial style was passe' four years. ago when he left. It's more so now.  DARIN ERSTAD ! -- although his all out effort, hustle style might be too taxing for today's players.

Erstad's record with Nebraska wasn't stellar. 

He's got no professional experience. But I liked his attitude as a player. Similar to Nevin's but without major league coaching experience.

 

[Hubs]

And as for Scioscia, he may have needed some time after 19 seasons at the helm. 

He's had that. 

TMZ Sports got Scioscia in June to ask if he wanted the job back, and I think they may be able to convince him to take it. If they want a veteran manager, he's it. 

There will be other choices for sure, but bottom line is Nevin, unless he does the opposite of Ausmus's last two months and goes 41-19 (which prior to this stretch by Nevin was the worst I'd ever seen them play...54-49 after the game I went to where they completed the sweep of the Dodgers, to 72-90 at the end)

 

 is not going to be back. Nevin is already 14 games under, let alone 18, and he'll easily surpass the 72-90 record. 

This will likely be the first season with less than 70 wins since 1980 (in a non strike or Covid shortened Season).

How would they give the job to Nevin?

[Tank]

i voted for someone else.

i haven't minded nevin, and i think montgomery would be okay, too. but i think it won't really matter much who's hired until the talent on the roster improves. phil jackson couldn't win with this current team.

[Swordsman78]

2 hours ago, Hubs said:

I am the OP. And to be clear, Ive been posting for 18 years on this site. 

Nevin has utterly totally sucked as a manager. The buck stops with him, and I seriously doubt that Maddon would have this team in the same position. I understood why they fired him and I liked him being protective of Trout with the Mariners, but he's gone 16-30 in 46 games. That's worse than any stretch I can remember.

He seems to make weird choices like playing Marsh defensively in Left, when Trout has been out, and playing the worst CF of the three OF (Ward) in CF. Then he'll try something else.

His relief pitching decisions are baffling even to someone who watched Maddon for two seasons. Iglesias should never pitch in tie games. Ever. Peguero sucks in close games too. 

The lineup is questionable. The defensive positioning is questionable. Players have long slumps hitting wise and they just keep grinding. Walsh's swing is so messed up right now and Marsh is striking out more than 40% of the time under Nevin. 

Players must've been told to take more pitches, and they are watching strike three too often.

Pinch hitting is questionable. 

He has too quick of a hook with starters. Mound visits are non-existent. 

Scioscia had his faults, but these last three plus seasons have shown that maybe we all thought he was worse than he was.

 

 

 

 

That's a solid take. 

IMO Scoccia over managed, pulled starters to quick, did not instill a sense of urgency in the team.  Always said "its a long season so there's no reason to panic" or something of similar jist.  Only to have the Angles miss the playoffs by 1-5 games they should have won in June but didn't

I prefer managers that let the kids play, battle through their problems, and have a sense of urgency to win.

Scoccia had much better talent to work with than Nevin does now.   Also the hitting and pitching coaches are Maddon's guys/choices.

Granted there is a valid philosophy of cleaning out mgmt when an organization is failing.   I would be more supportive however if Nevin was given at least a full season.

[Hubs]

1 minute ago, Swordsman78 said:

That's a solid take. 

IMO Scoccia over managed, pulled starters to quick, did not instill a sense of urgency in the team.  Always said "its a long season so there's no reason to panic" or something of similar jist.

I prefer managers that let the kids play, battle through their problems, and have a sense of urgency to win.

Scoccia had much better talent to work with than Nevin does now.   Also the hitting and pitching coaches are Maddon's guys/choices.

Granted there is a valid philosophy of cleaning out mgmt when an organization is failing.   I would be more supportive however if Nevin was given at least a full season.

Sorry, but I'll agree with the over managing at times, but that's all sabremetrics is honestly. Over managing.

Scioscia had better talent than now? Maybe in his first 10 years, but you really think the 2014 team was better than this group? Healthier maybe. They had success because they were put in good situations. By the manager.

This team has more talent and are doing less with it. That's on the manager. Maddon was basically .500, so the lack of results and the deep dive below .500 is entirely on Nevin.

As far as the quick hook, that team, the 2014 team, averaged 5.81 innings per start...and had a better rotation results wise with Richards, Weaver, Shoemaker, Wilson, Santiago & Skaggs. But Ohtani, Sandoval, Detmers, Syndergaard is arguably a better top 4. Bullpen was great. This season, the Angels are averaging 5.09 innings per start.

The 2015-2018 teams had less talent than the 2014 team, and had pitching that struggled. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Swordsman78]

15 minutes ago, Hubs said:

Sorry, but I'll agree with the over managing at times, but that's all sabremetrics is honestly. Over managing.

Scioscia had better talent than now? Maybe in his first 10 years, but you really think the 2014 team was better than this group? Healthier maybe. They had success because they were put in good situations. By the manager.

This team has more talent and are doing less with it. That's on the manager. Maddon was basically .500, so the lack of results and the deep dive below .500 is entirely on Nevin.

As far as the quick hook, that team, the 2014 team, averaged 5.81 innings per start...and had a better rotation results wise with Richards, Weaver, Shoemaker, Wilson, Santiago & Skaggs. But Ohtani, Sandoval, Detmers, Syndergaard is arguably a better top 4. Bullpen was great. This season, the Angels are averaging 5.09 innings per start.

The 2015-2018 teams had less talent than the 2014 team, and had pitching that struggled. 

 

 

 

 

 

The 2014 Angels had more talent and were stronger at virtually every position than the 2022 team available since Nevin took over, and it is not even close.

 

[Hubs]

Just now, Swordsman78 said:

The 2014 Angels had more talent and were stronger at virtually every position than the 2022 team available since Nevin took over, and it is not even close.

 

They had better results, and maybe were a little deeper.

Yes I picked the best Scioscia team, but you honestly can't tell me that the 2014 team had more talent. Aybar, Kendrick, and Freese all struggled that year with low .700 OPS, and while the Angels INF sucks this season, Rendon is better than those three single handedly. Rengifo is showing life. Fletcher is at least as good as Freese. 

Ohtani & Trout alone are better than everyone else on the roster.

Healthwise, that team had much better health.

 

[Swordsman78]

2 minutes ago, Hubs said:

They had better results, and maybe were a little deeper.

Yes I picked the best Scioscia team, but you honestly can't tell me that the 2014 team had more talent. Aybar, Kendrick, and Freese all struggled that year with low .700 OPS, and while the Angels INF sucks this season, Rendon is better than those three single handedly. Rengifo is showing life. Fletcher is at least as good as Freese. 

Ohtani & Trout alone are better than everyone else on the roster.

Healthwise, that team had much better health.

 

Rendon isn't available, Fletcher wasn't available for 90% of the games under Nevin.  Trout has been hurt the majority of games as well, (either palying hurt or out).  2014 had a healthy Trout and younger Pujos.   The 2014 team was much stronger up the middle both offensively and defensively.  

The bottom line is that the caliber of player that has been available for Nevin to use is possibly the worst in 30 years +, maybe since the mid 1960's

[Hubs]

Just now, Swordsman78 said:

Rendon isn't available, Fletcher wasn't available for 90% of the games under Nevin.  Trout has been hurt the majority of games as well, (either palying hurt or out).  2014 had a healthy Trout and younger Pujos.   The 2014 team was much stronger up the middle both offensively and defensively.  

The bottom line is that the caliber of player that has been available for Nevin to use is possibly the worst in 30 years +, maybe since the mid 1960's

Trout's been out for two weeks he's not been out for the majority, not even close... They have Ohtani. Pujols was 34 in 2014, and likely 38.  

You can be an Nevin apologist and I'll be a Scioscia apologist and we'll see what happens in the offseason. I'm actually surprised he's kept the interim job to be honest.

 

[TroutCron]

This will probably be Minasian’s one chance to hire his own guy for Manager. He is going to go with someone he is comfortable with. Hopefully his hire has a good plan in place for filling out his coaching staff. 

[Swordsman78]

39 minutes ago, Hubs said:

Trout's been out for two weeks he's not been out for the majority, not even close... They have Ohtani. Pujols was 34 in 2014, and likely 38.  

You can be an Nevin apologist and I'll be a Scioscia apologist and we'll see what happens in the offseason. I'm actually surprised he's kept the interim job to be honest.

 

2014 Pujos .272 with 105 RBI's had a better year offensively than 2022 Ohtani (up to this point).

[Lou]

2 minutes ago, Swordsman78 said:

2014 Pujos .272 with 105 RBI's had a better year offensively than 2022 Ohtani (up to this point).

Pujols OPS = .790

Ohtani OPS = .847

[Swordsman78]

15 minutes ago, Lou said:

Pujols OPS = .790

Ohtani OPS = .847

Only because of all the intentional walks due to Ohtani being the sole threat in the lineup.  Nice try tho.

[tdawg87]

1 minute ago, Swordsman78 said:

Only because of all the intentional walks due to Ohtani being the sole threat in the lineup.  Nice try tho.

Pujols SLG: .466

Ohtani SLG: .495

[Lou]

2 minutes ago, Swordsman78 said:

Only because of all the intentional walks due to Ohtani being the sole threat in the lineup.  Nice try tho.

Pujols had 11 intentional walks. 

Ohtani has 10.

You can stop now. 

[Lou]

Pujols GIDP = 28

Ohtani = 4

[Hubs]

51 minutes ago, Swordsman78 said:

2014 Pujos .272 with 105 RBI's had a better year offensively than 2022 Ohtani (up to this point).

Ok, you're now officially smoking crack. 

 

[Swordsman78]

30 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Pujols SLG: .466

Ohtani SLG: .495

Now do it without the walks.  If you are going to use Pujos full year walks then multiply Ohtani walks by 1.4

[tdawg87]

Just now, Swordsman78 said:

Now do it without the walks.  If you are going to use Pujos full year walks then multiply Ohtani walks by 1.4

Ok, I'll do the SLG percentage without the walks.

Pujols: .466

Ohtani: .495

[Swordsman78]

1 minute ago, tdawg87 said:

Ok, I'll do the SLG percentage without the walks.

Pujols: .466

Ohtani: .495

Nice try.   Since BB don't count as AB that obviously lowers the denominator which inflates the %.