Imagine you're Shohei Ohtani: In what scenario would you sign long-term with the Angels?

[Angels 1961]

Ohtani has been nothing but a class act with Angels. Wherever he ends up I will be rooting for him. He has been so great for baseball. 

[CaliAngel]

13 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

You're Shohei Ohtani, and you're halfway through a second year in which you lead the majors in overall WAR, and have pretty much established yourself as the best--or at least, most unique--player in baseball. You're doing things that have never been done. You just turned 28 years old and are in your prime. But you look around at your team, facing its worst season in a long time, with no signs of the improvement that various GMs have promised over the years. 

So what would get you to sign a long-term contract with the Angels? The caveat, of course, is that we're not in his head, and the cultural differences make the divide even greater. As far as I know, we don't know if Shohei likes playing for a kind of under-the-radar team, or if he'd enjoy the spotlight of playing for a premier franchise like the Yankees, Dodgers, or Red Sox. But play make-believe, for a moment.

I'm thinking one of two scenarios:

1. Arte makes him an offer he can't refuse this offseason, something like 10/$500M. I think it would probably have to be something like that for him to sign with the Angels....it is hard to refuse a guaranteed half a billion dollars. I could also see him agreeing to something like 2/$100M, which gives him a chance to sign another big contract when he's 30.

2. You wait to see how the team does in 2023. If they're bad, you leave pretty much no matter what - unless you struggle, get hurt, and/or Arte makes the offer above. Or, if they're good and reach the postseason, you ride the wave and take the "home-team discount" - which isn't really a discount, but rather a market value contract signed with your home-team before reaching free agency. With Shohei, we don't know what that is. But assuming he continues as-is next year, probably something like 8/$400M or 10/$450M.

Do you agree with the gist of the above, or do you think he'll require more or less, or simply test free agency no matter what?

Just want to say AngelsJunky you do a fantastic job at starting threads like this, and they don't go under-appreciated. 

If I was Ohtani, I would leave. 

If I was Trout, I'd be looking to get out. 

Unless there are some dramatic organizational changes, and let's face it these to guys see it way more than us, we're totally clueless when it comes to developing talent. The talent we acquire tends to turn to shit. The product on the field right now is a joke. Being Ohtani or Trout right now to show up basically expecting to lose because you know what's being put on the field has to be incredibly difficult to navigate. What's the difference between $350 Mill and $450 Mill when you look at it in perspective?

I'm the type of guy that would rather win. Play for a well oiled machine that knows what it takes. A team culture that expects it, and doesn't accept anything less. 

And I think Trout and Ohtani are too. 

 

[Jason]

3 minutes ago, CaliAngel said:

Just want to say AngelsJunky you do a fantastic job at starting threads like this, and they don't go under-appreciated. 

If I was Ohtani, I would leave. 

If I was Trout, I'd be looking to get out. 

Unless there are some dramatic organizational changes, and let's face it these to guys see it way more than us, we're totally clueless when it comes to developing talent. The talent we acquire tends to turn to shit. The product on the field right now is a joke. Being Ohtani or Trout right now to show up basically expecting to lose because you know what's being put on the field has to be incredibly difficult to navigate. What's the difference between $350 Mill and $450 Mill when you look at it in perspective?

I'm the type of guy that would rather win. Play for a well oiled machine that knows what it takes. A team culture that expects it, and doesn't accept anything less. 

And I think Trout and Ohtani are too. 

 

Trout doesn’t play enough to complain about all that much. His constant injuries have led to many losses 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

Trout doesn’t play enough to complain about all that much. His constant injuries have led to many losses 

This is dumb. You mean last year?  

[Jason]

Just now, Stradling said:

This is dumb. You mean last year?  

I mean in general. He hasn’t been that reliable because of injuries 

[ThisismineScios]

3 minutes ago, CaliAngel said:

Just want to say AngelsJunky you do a fantastic job at starting threads like this, and they don't go under-appreciated. 

If I was Ohtani, I would leave. 

If I was Trout, I'd be looking to get out. 

Unless there are some dramatic organizational changes, and let's face it these to guys see it way more than us, we're totally clueless when it comes to developing talent. The talent we acquire tends to turn to shit. The product on the field right now is a joke. Being Ohtani or Trout right now to show up basically expecting to lose because you know what's being put on the field has to be incredibly difficult to navigate. What's the difference between $350 Mill and $450 Mill when you look at it in perspective?

I'm the type of guy that would rather win. Play for a well oiled machine that knows what it takes. A team culture that expects it, and doesn't accept anything less. 

And I think Trout and Ohtani are too. 

 

This is exactly what I’m talking about on several fronts. Trout sees the organization better than any of us and continues to say he does not want to leave. And said the same when he extended. These guys aren’t wired like we think they are. They aren’t “pissed” or “disgusted”. They’re in the thick of the losing and, guess what, sometimes contributing to it! None of these guys see themselves as blameless. And they genuinely like their teammates, so they aren’t running into Arte’s office demanding they DFA Velazquez.

The other thing with Trout I think we’ve seen evidence of is that he doesn’t know what a winning culture looks like. Suzuki and Rendon do which is why it’s so disappointing to know they’re in the locker room and not doing more to lead the team through this streak. Trout doesn’t really know any better. Or Ohtani. So they don’t see it in black and white. You can say they should “want out” but we have no idea how they see it. And I doubt it is the same way as fans do—get out and play for a winner. 

[Jason]

Trout not playing really changes the lineup in a bad way 

[bloodbrother]

Absolutely none.  7 straight losing seasons, and if this year is any indication, they've never looked worse. Angels have been one of the worst teams in baseball when it comes to player development during this time, having compiled a bottom 5 team total in WAR from drafted players. They have a bloated payroll despite having very little actual MLB talent to show for it. There's very few teams right now in MLB in worse shape than the Angels currently are. The teams the Angels are next to in the standings are mostly those in the midst of full on rebuilds who have slashed payroll significantly and sold off most of their top players for prospects.

[Angels 1961]

4 hours ago, bloodbrother said:

Absolutely none.  7 straight losing seasons, and if this year is any indication, they've never looked worse. Angels have been one of the worst teams in baseball when it comes to player development during this time, having compiled a bottom 5 team total in WAR from drafted players. They have a bloated payroll despite having very little actual MLB talent to show for it. There's very few teams right now in MLB in worse shape than the Angels currently are. The teams the Angels are next to in the standings are mostly those in the midst of full on rebuilds who have slashed payroll significantly and sold off most of their top players for prospects.

You are right this team is not on the cusp of winning. Minasian was wrong and should admit it. Team needs total rebuild and just start over like many other teams have done. Get someone in here from Tampa Bay Rays, to see how they do it. No more talk about signing Ohtani because that is not going to happen. It will be a painful 5 or 6 years but not any worse than false hope of last 7.

[stormngt]

8 hours ago, Second Base said:

The Angels won't trade Shohei. For a number of factors, primarily, anyone acquiring him, Arte wouldn't sign off on because it means he let the biggest star in the sport go to his rival because he's a failure. The second would be Perry. You don't want to be the GM that traded Ruth/Ohtani. 

Ohtani will play out his contract with the Angels, and then he will leave. 

You maybe right, but I can't think of a more stupid maneuver the management can take than to hold on to a player who will not play fir you the following year instead of trading him.

[Inside Pitch]

How?  Like this...

[m0nkey]

Who was the last MLB player to "demand" a trade like an NBA player?  Was it Griffey? Does it happen?

[Inside Pitch]

4 minutes ago, m0nkey said:

Who was the last MLB player to "demand" a trade like an NBA player?  Was it Griffey? Does it happen?

Griffey and RJ both did.  Yelich demanded a trade after the Ozuna trade and Realmuto sort of made a soft demand.

[UndertheHalo]

I recall every team in baseball falling over themselves to try and get Ohtani when he came over.  The Angels were fucking losers then and they still are.  If he cared that much about being on a winner every year he wouldn’t have agreed to the Angels in the first place.  I think there’s a lot of stuff that goes on when a guy like Ohtani is making his decisions and a lot of the stuff that made him pick Angels the first time is probably still true.  He’s probably got a number and the Angels need to come to him and match that number.   Which they should probably do. They should probably kiss his ass and do whatever the fuck he wants.  They don’t have anything else worth a shit going on.  Anyway, I don’t know if they will.  The Angels tend to do everything stupid.  So we’ll see.  But I don’t think he’s 100% gone.  Arte should figure it out like tomorrow but this off season for sure.  Get Shohei to sign or move on.  That’s how it goes.  I hope they keep him around.  Anyway you never know.  Baseball is weird. 

[Skankhunt42]

When me shit turns purple and taste like rainbow sherbet. 

[cysomeawfulpitcher]

[AngelsFaninGA]

I think he most likely stays. Maybe we actually get an ownership change in the next decade and Trout/Ohtani make the playoffs together in their late 30's

[BILLYMACREXANDGUBI]

The Angels looked like a promising team until they had an epic collapse in May. Since they started so hot they are only 10 games back in the Wild Card (or that's what I read in another thread) which is not at all insurmountable. I think the Angels have a chance of resetting the second part of the first half of the season and maybe get off to another hot start like they had done in April before the slump. 

No way Ohtani leaves with a guy like Mike Trout by his side. As bad as it has been did Ichiro leave Seattle because they didn't win a championship in his first few years? Given, they were a far better team during Ichiro's early years then the Angels have been with Ohtani.

I believe Ohtani will ride it out for a few more years to see if he and Trout can win a championship together. If it really doesn't turn around after a few more seasons then I wouldn't blame him. 

Also, is there a precedent for international superstars leaving a franchise after only five seasons because they suck? I think most of them tend to like the first American city they land in as a second home kind of feeling like they have been adopted into our culture (at least the really good ones) and tend to stick by that place for awhile because of the connection they feel between them and the city/fans.

[ten ocho recon scout]

[Brandon]

The only variable is we started off so strong before falling off a cliff. 
 

I think the Pads empty the clip for Soto and Ohtani ends up with the Mets or Mariners.

[ukyah]

On 7/17/2022 at 3:35 PM, Angels 1961 said:

You are right this team is not on the cusp of winning. Minasian was wrong and should admit it. Team needs total rebuild and just start over like many other teams have done. Get someone in here from Tampa Bay Rays, to see how they do it. No more talk about signing Ohtani because that is not going to happen. It will be a painful 5 or 6 years but not any worse than false hope of last 7.

i'll tell you right now, i wouldn't be around to watch 5 or 6 years more of hot garbage.

[ukyah]

7 hours ago, patrickonealsucks said:

The Angels looked like a promising team until they had an epic collapse in May. Since they started so hot they are only 10 games back in the Wild Card (or that's what I read in another thread) which is not at all insurmountable. I think the Angels have a chance of resetting the second part of the first half of the season and maybe get off to another hot start like they had done in April before the slump. 

No way Ohtani leaves with a guy like Mike Trout by his side. As bad as it has been did Ichiro leave Seattle because they didn't win a championship in his first few years? Given, they were a far better team during Ichiro's early years then the Angels have been with Ohtani.

I believe Ohtani will ride it out for a few more years to see if he and Trout can win a championship together. If it really doesn't turn around after a few more seasons then I wouldn't blame him. 

Also, is there a precedent for international superstars leaving a franchise after only five seasons because they suck? I think most of them tend to like the first American city they land in as a second home kind of feeling like they have been adopted into our culture (at least the really good ones) and tend to stick by that place for awhile because of the connection they feel between them and the city/fans.

you think ohtani is going to sign a "couple years" deal to stay with the angels? think about that some more.

[TroutField]

We are 1.5 years away from his free agency and we don’t even have a manager that doesn’t have the term “interim” in front of it. 
 

he’s not staying and it sucks to accept that as an angels fan. 

[Stradling]

I wonder what kind of betting odds I could get if I chose to wager that Ohtani signs an extension?

[tomsred]

I think he will stay.  I was really encouraged to see that since he is scheduled  to start on Friday against Atlanta he told Dusty Baker he wasn't available to pitch in the All Star Game.  That is very encouraging to me, that he is valuing regular season games wins over an All Star exhibition game, and personal glory.  He will be leading off hitting against Kershaw though tomorrow night.  The Angels may not have enough talent as far as depth is concerned, but a fire lit under Minasian's butt might be enough to get the team back on track.  It will be a very interesting this offseason, hopefully we get a very qualified manager and new coaching staff in place and build some proper depth.