How do we fix this realistically?

[Angels 1961]

Baltimore just pasted halos in WC standings with Detroit not far behind. Teams in rebuild mode better than Angels. 

21 minutes ago, Revad said:

Fix the scouting and development issues.  If Artie agrees and doesn’t feel as though it makes it look like we’re giving up, trade Snydergaard and/or Lorenzen, plus a reliever if possible for prospects.  Be open to adding some salary to grab a prospect.  For instance, if he’s healthy ask the Padres how they’d sweeten a deal for Wil Myers and his remaining salary (about $8M including $1M 2023 buyout.  Extend Ohtani.  Have another successful draft, last year is looking good!  

 

[DCAngelsFan]

17 hours ago, AngelsFaninGA said:

Arte's level of spending has been fine. It's what the money has been spent on that's the issue. Right now we have the equivalent of a Ferrari and boat parked in front for a run-down trailer home (aka a Miami Special)

This reminds of the metaphor I made probably 10 years ago on the order of "The Angels have a Ferrari with no engine, transmission, and bad brakes, and Arte is spending his money on shiny new rims"

I trace it back to the 2010 draft - that was the draft that was supposed to provide us with an infusion of talent that would carry the team for years.  Instead, it was a smoking crater, and so many bad financial decisions later resulted to try to backfill what became an absolutely shockingly barren system (didn't Law say something like it was the worst he'd ever seen?)

It's boring to even say it again - have said it for years - whatever the Angels spend on international and amateur scouting, drafting, and development - whether it's a lot or a little - is yielding crap results.  

 

[T.G.]

All these car analogies seem appropriate given the cost of gas these days.

[St1ck]

They can merge with the Dodgers. Form a super team called the Los Angeles Dodgers. 

[floplag]

There are only two options, not counting an absurd amount of luck, and the answer will largely depend on how fast you want the team to be competitive or reelevant again.  Ill admit up front im as negative about this team as i think ive ever been right now... too many years of supposedly working some plan to somehow get worse each year... ive realized the only real plan is line Artes pockets. 

IF you want to win in the next couple yeatrs, the only real option is to overspend.  There is no other path.  For all Artes talk about doing what it takes and the right guy yada yada, in the end the bussinessman won out, he isnt going to do that, hes gone as high as hes willing to go, thats obvious at this point.  He has completely ignored talking to the media or talking to the fans or letting anyone know what he intends for years now for exactly that reason, old news.  So, thats moot.

If you want to play the long game, which i suppose we have been it was just a lot longer than we thought, then you stay the course.  The problem with this is twofold, it doesnt work playing 500 ball, and you have no real shot and getting competitive FA to come here.  and thats before you get to the whole wasting Trout/Ohtani nonsene.

Arte isnt going to sell the team, which at this point is the only real answer to get someone who will do what it takes short term wehile building the future.  But im assuming that too is also moot.

The only real answer is a full fire sale.  Before anyone blows a gasket on me lets be honest, take the emotion out of it, If this was any other team, with any other players, would you honestly reccomend anything else?

Trade Trrout, Ohtani, Thor, literally anone not under long term control.  One year deals, gone, trade em.  If you cant win with them, why does it matter if they are here? Is watching them lose night after nioght fun to literally anyone?  Whatever the plan or model is or has been these last 5-10 years, its an astract failure in every possible way. 

Now that having been said, do i think it will happen, no, Arte wont give up the revenue streams those players create... so he will lose them in the end for nothing.  Ohtani will not extend, he has zero reason to with the universal DH, we already dropped that ball. 

If they do this they might be terrible for the next few years, but hey whats the real difference between winning 80 games or 70... either way your not relevant. 

[T.G.]

6 minutes ago, floplag said:

Trade Trrout, Ohtani

Arte Moreno is NEVER going to be known as the owner who traded those two.  That would become his legacy and that's not happening.

[Angel Oracle]

5 minutes ago, floplag said:

There are only two options, not counting an absurd amount of luck, and the answer will largely depend on how fast you want the team to be competitive or reelevant again.  Ill admit up front im as negative about this team as i think ive ever been right now... too many years of supposedly working some plan to somehow get worse each year... ive realized the only real plan is line Artes pockets. 

IF you want to win in the next couple yeatrs, the only real option is to overspend.  There is no other path.  For all Artes talk about doing what it takes and the right guy yada yada, in the end the bussinessman won out, he isnt going to do that, hes gone as high as hes willing to go, thats obvious at this point.  He has completely ignored talking to the media or talking to the fans or letting anyone know what he intends for years now for exactly that reason, old news.  So, thats moot.

If you want to play the long game, which i suppose we have been it was just a lot longer than we thought, then you stay the course.  The problem with this is twofold, it doesnt work playing 500 ball, and you have no real shot and getting competitive FA to come here.  and thats before you get to the whole wasting Trout/Ohtani nonsene.

Arte isnt going to sell the team, which at this point is the only real answer to get someone who will do what it takes short term wehile building the future.  But im assuming that too is also moot.

The only real answer is a full fire sale.  Before anyone blows a gasket on me lets be honest, take the emotion out of it, If this was any other team, with any other players, would you honestly reccomend anything else?

Trade Trrout, Ohtani, Thor, literally anone not under long term control.  One year deals, gone, trade em.  If you cant win with them, why does it matter if they are here? Is watching them lose night after nioght fun to literally anyone?  Whatever the plan or model is or has been these last 5-10 years, its an astract failure in every possible way. 

Now that having been said, do i think it will happen, no, Arte wont give up the revenue streams those players create... so he will lose them in the end for nothing.  Ohtani will not extend, he has zero reason to with the universal DH, we already dropped that ball. 

If they do this they might be terrible for the next few years, but hey whats the real difference between winning 80 games or 70... either way your not relevant. 

Do both, like the Dogs did.

Not to the extent that Guggenheim spent, but Arte can go over the tax threshold to re-sign Ohtani and Syndergaard plus start bringing in better support players, all the while making sure the farm is solid enough from year to year and the FO has enough baseball acumen in it to get the right players and prospects and the right manager and coaches.

Then again, that’s what I’d do if I had nearly $2 billion net worth outside of the team and paid for the franchise up front.

[Tank]

30 minutes ago, St1ck said:

They can merge with the Dodgers. Form a super team called the Los Angeles Dodgers. 

Excellent idea. Would read again.

[floplag]

11 minutes ago, True Grich said:

Arte Moreno is NEVER going to be known as the owner who traded those two.  That would become his legacy and that's not happening.

Which i worse, that or the guy that couldnt win with them?  Hes buggared either way at this point. 

[floplag]

9 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Do both, like the Dogs did.

Not to the extent that Guggenheim spent, but Arte can go over the tax threshold to re-sign Ohtani and Syndergaard plus start bringing in better support players, all the while making sure the farm is solid enough from year to year and the FO has enough baseball acumen in it to get the right players and prospects and the right manager and coaches.

Then again, that’s what I’d do if I had nearly $2 billion net worth outside of the team and paid for the franchise up front.

Yes but that assumes he would do that, and at this point i do not think he will.  Hes had how many chances now to do so?  what would change it now if it wasnt worth it before?

[Lou]

12 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Then again, that’s what I’d do if I had nearly $2 billion net worth outside of the team and paid for the franchise up front.

The problem with this type of thinking is that the team's value isn't liquid. Players are paid in cash. 

[Angels 1961]

2 hours ago, Lou said:

The problem with this type of thinking is that the team's value isn't liquid. Players are paid in cash. 

I thought most got direct deposit.

[mmc]

 

[Stradling]

5 minutes ago, mmc said:

 

Based on how well the return has been on generational talent in mlb I think we have our answer. 

[T.G.]

I bet @Jay finds this thread boring as well.

[T.G.]

2 hours ago, Lou said:

The problem with this type of thinking is that the team's value isn't liquid. Players are paid in cash. 

Raisel is paid in sunflower seeds.

[AngelStew43]

Answer truthfully, if the Angels traded Trout and Ohtani, for those who have suggested that, would anyone pay good money to go and watch what is left?  

I doubt that I would. 

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, AngelStew43 said:

Answer truthfully, if the Angels traded Trout and Ohtani, for those who have suggested that, would anyone pay good money to go and watch what is left?  

I doubt that I would. 

I would but then again I had season seats in the 90’s and those were bad teams. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

1 hour ago, AngelStew43 said:

Answer truthfully, if the Angels traded Trout and Ohtani, for those who have suggested that, would anyone pay good money to go and watch what is left?  

I doubt that I would. 

How much are you spending now?

[floplag]

1 hour ago, AngelStew43 said:

Answer truthfully, if the Angels traded Trout and Ohtani, for those who have suggested that, would anyone pay good money to go and watch what is left?  

I doubt that I would. 

I would pay to see the team try, over what they are giving us, yes.
I will not pay to see the debochle they are, superstars or not.
Do you truly enjoy seeing Trout cat a few times a night around a loss?  Thats somehow fun for you?  I bet even he would trade his performance for wins.
This logic is what got us into this mess.  People paying to see Trout, instead of the Angels. 

[Erstad Grit]

7 hours ago, Stradling said:

I would but then again I had season seats in the 90’s and those were bad teams. 

I loved sitting behind 1B and ducking when Hollins would throw lol

[Dtwncbad]

19 hours ago, Lou said:

The problem with this type of thinking is that the team's value isn't liquid. Players are paid in cash. 

It can be liquid quite easily if you are willing to use either debt against the equity or are willing to bring in investor partners that have cash (giving up a fraction of ownership).

Debt isn’t automatically a bad thing.  It can be used to accomplish what you want to do, while remaining very financially healthy.

If the Angels win a World Series with Trout and Ohtani, the value of the franchise would likely increase beyond the amount of debt used, or the amount of equity given up.

Seems like a good way to go.

Edited July 7, 2022 by Dtwncbad

[Lou]

39 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

It can be liquid quite easily if you are willing to use either debt against the equity or are willing to bring in investor partners that have cash (giving up a fraction of ownership).

Debt isn’t automatically a bad thing.  It can be used to accomplish what you want to do, while remaining very financially healthy.

If the Angels win a World Series with Trout and Ohtani, the value of the franchise would likely increase beyond the amount of debt used, or the amount of equity given up.

Seems like a good way to go.

Sure, but that's not the way Arte operates.

[tdawg87]

37 minutes ago, Lou said:

Sure, but that's not the way Arte operates.

How do you know how Arte operates?

[Lou]

2 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

How do you know how Arte operates?

His history of not taking on debt or bringing in investors.