Leadership of our players

[Lou]

3 minutes ago, mmc said:

I made a thread asking when we can question the leadership of our players, his first response is that we won't ever know what truly goes on, when there is no camera or microphone in front of them, I replied saying that just because we don't have that kind of access, doesn't mean we can't question the leadership on the team when they've lost 14 straight games

Ok, I guess responding specifically to failos' media comment was confusing.

[Tank]

19 minutes ago, mmc said:

Haha no, read the OP again.  I'm not saying anything definitive about anyone, I don't know any of them personally, just that there's plenty of reason to be concerned that the team lacks leadership

dude, unless you've been inside the clubhouse and personally witnessed what does or doesn't go on amongst the players, sit this one out. 

not a single one of us here has any idea. none of us.

[mmc]

1 minute ago, Lou said:

Ok, I guess responding specifically to failos' media comment was confusing.

Most of what I say is, even to myself

[T.G.]

2 minutes ago, HaloMilliVanilli said:

This team needs "Kirk Gibson" circa 1988 Doyers.  And I don't mean limping up in bottom of the 9th Gibby, just no frills/balls to the wall/play through hurt/put up with no bs Gibby.

Might still lose, but I liked Gibby's style.

You've watched too many sports movies.

[T.G.]

Just now, mmc said:

Most of what I say is, even to myself

I understood you perfectly.   Clearly you were asking for chocolate ice cream.

[Tank]

let's not ignore the talent issue going on right now.

you can't replace guys like rendon and trout with lagares, duffy, wade, et al and expect the same results. and while squid is fantastic with the glove, his lack of hitting is a burden on the team. 

that's all a gm issue.

[T.G.]

I still blame... um.... you know who.

[tomsred]

2 minutes ago, Tank said:

let's not ignore the talent issue going on right now.

you can't replace guys like rendon and trout with lagares, duffy, wade, et al and expect the same results. and while squid is fantastic with the glove, his lack of hitting is a burden on the team. 

that's all a gm issue.

I agree Tank.  I think Perry dodged the real question when he did the press conference installing Kevin as manager.  That question was "how do you rate your own performance?"  Firing a manager was just an emotional, personal pressure relieving performance on his part, or a deflection from the real issue.  It's the GM's job to amass talent and provide depth.  He didn't even take partial blame for this failure, and if he had I probably would have felt better about him.   There might have been hope that he learned from these mistakes, and could inspire confidence that they would be corrected over time.  I am concerned that ownership put someone in the GM spot who is inexperienced and can't handle a situation like the team is currently in.  I hope the next GM that's hired has a good track record as a GM, and is more mature.       

[TroutCron]

As far as the offense goes everyone can cut down on the Strikeouts. Put the ball in play and good things can happen, absolutely nothing good comes from a strikeout. Conversely, the pitchers need to be much more aggressive in the strike zone. They constantly either pitch from behind the count or get ahead of the count and then try to nibble. I lay some of this on Matt Wise, who is responsible for his pitchers’ approach to the at bats. He is also responsible for instilling confidence in his pitchers. Minasian should have replaced Wise at the same time that he relieved Maddon of his duties. 

[failos]

1 hour ago, mmc said:

You say this as if it automatically means there’s no reason to question them.  I think there’s a hell of a lot.

I was referring to this:

11 hours ago, mmc said:

Trout, when meeting with the media after yesterday's game, was smiling and didn't sound concerned about anything. 

[HanfordGuy]

40 minutes ago, True Grich said:

I still blame... um.... you know who.

Obama? Kaiser Wilhelm???

[tdawg87]

3 minutes ago, HanfordGuy said:

Obama? Kaiser Wilhelm???

Mitch.

[HanfordGuy]

8 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Mitch.

That Mitch…what can I say.

[stormngt]

4 hours ago, True Grich said:

The team is losing because of a lack of talent and a lack of execution... not because of a lack of leadership.

Team won the first two months with the same talent.

And before you make the "easy schedule excuse", that included Houston, Tampa Bay and Boston.  In fact the White Sox was predicted to win their division.

[stormngt]

4 hours ago, Tank said:

let's not ignore the talent issue going on right now.

you can't replace guys like rendon and trout with lagares, duffy, wade, et al and expect the same results. and while squid is fantastic with the glove, his lack of hitting is a burden on the team. 

that's all a gm issue.

Trout has missed two games during the streak.

[T.G.]

4 minutes ago, stormngt said:

Team won the first two months with the same talent.

And before you make the "easy schedule excuse", that included Houston, Tampa Bay and Boston.  In fact the White Sox was predicted to win their division.

the bottom half of the lineup has been suspect from the beginning... when the top of the lineup isn't producing - the bottom of the lineups short comings are magnified... it was only a matter of time.

Also - the starting pitching wasn't able to sustain their effectiveness.  The league adapted... they did not. Same goes for the bullpen. 

 

Edited June 9, 2022 by True Grich

[Slegnaac]

There is no real on field leader. 

A take charge guy like Simmons would really help.  He led by example, and communicated with players around him.  He did the little things.

I don't see anyone in that position, and maybe that is because the lineup changes every game.

Throws to the wrong base, running into your teammates on your home field, cutting off a ball that could been fielded better by your teammates.   These are the little things that point clearly to communication breakdown.

 

[stormngt]

3 hours ago, True Grich said:

the bottom half of the lineup has been suspect from the beginning... when the top of the lineup isn't producing - the bottom of the lineups short comings are magnified... it was only a matter of time.

Also - the starting pitching wasn't able to sustain their effectiveness.  The league adapted... they did not. Same goes for the bullpen. 

 

Your explanation makes sense.  The team is obviously not playing well right now.

However uf they could play that well for two months they shouldn't be playing this bad now. Not for this extended period of time.

 

 

[Jeff Fletcher]

I have seen or heard zero that would indicate there are problems with leadership or anything at all relating to the clubhouse attitude. 
 

They had some key players injured. They had some other key players slumping. They played good teams that were playing well (even the Phillies went and swept the Brewers on the road after the Angels series). They also got really unlucky. 
 

It’s no more complicated than that. 

[eligrba]

8 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I have seen or heard zero that would indicate there are problems with leadership or anything at all relating to the clubhouse attitude. 
 

They had some key players injured. They had some other key players slumping. They played good teams that were playing well (even the Phillies went and swept the Brewers on the road after the Angels series). They also got really unlucky. 
 

It’s no more complicated than that. 

It must be more complicated than that because if it were that simple, there would be nothing to talk about.

[tdawg87]

20 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I have seen or heard zero that would indicate there are problems with leadership or anything at all relating to the clubhouse attitude. 
 

They had some key players injured. They had some other key players slumping. They played good teams that were playing well (even the Phillies went and swept the Brewers on the road after the Angels series). They also got really unlucky. 
 

It’s no more complicated than that. 

I don't think there's problems with leadership in the sense that guys are like "man I wish Mike would step up and lead the team". I think it's just taking charge on the field. Ohtani last night is a perfect example. 

I'm not saying that magically makes the other guys play better, but I do think they feed off that energy. 

[cals]

23 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

but I do think they feed off that energy. 

Do you like when people feed off things?

[tdawg87]

5 minutes ago, cals said:

Do you like when people feed off things?

[Lou]

2 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

I don't think there's problems with leadership in the sense that guys are like "man I wish Mike would step up and lead the team". I think it's just taking charge on the field. Ohtani last night is a perfect example. 

I'm not saying that magically makes the other guys play better, but I do think they feed off that energy. 

 

Ohtani last night: