Angels going with an internal competition for SS

[ukyah]

he wasn't coming here. the simmons bridge was torched on his way out. lit at both ends btw.

[Tank]

3 hours ago, disarcina said:

he may not have had interest in playing for the Halos 

It’s amazing how many people in this thread consistently forget about this for all free agents.

[Lou]

11 minutes ago, Tank said:

It’s amazing how many people in this thread consistently forget about this for all free agents.

94.7%

[Angel Oracle]

Arte Moreno

Diamond Jim Brady with hitting

Penny Pinching with everything else 

 

[Rollinghard]

 

A 5-foot-10, 180-pound right-handed hitter, Stefanic hit .345 in 21 games at Double-A Rocket City, then hit .334 in 104 games at Triple-A Salt Lake. Overall, he hit .336 with a .901 OPS.

“Offensively, I thought I had a great year,” Stefanic said. “The goal was to be an All-Star in Double-A and I ended up being an All-Star in Triple-A, so I kind of overachieved in that sense.”

 

[T.G.]

I want a $1 everytime someone asks "We couldn't match that?"

Edited March 14, 2022 by True Grich

[T.G.]

4 hours ago, Tank said:

It’s amazing how many people in this thread consistently forget about this for all free agents.

I like how some people think they know a player’s mindset.

[Angels 1961]

1 hour ago, True Grich said:

I want a $1 everytime someone asks "We couldn't match that?"

That's a lot of dollar hot dogs

[angelsnationtalk]

13 hours ago, ukyah said:

he wasn't coming here. the simmons bridge was torched on his way out. lit at both ends btw.

And bent at both ankles

[Angelsjunky]

With the overall strength of the lineup, the Angels can carry weak offense out of SS. The key will be defense, which is presumably why Maddon prefers Velazquez. But my hope is that Rengifo puts it all together this year and wins the job, although it might take a few months.

[Taylor]

26 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

With the overall strength of the lineup, the Angels can carry weak offense out of SS. The key will be defense, which is presumably why Maddon prefers Velazquez. But my hope is that Rengifo puts it all together this year and wins the job, although it might take a few months.

This mentality sounds good on paper but hasn't worked well for the last several years. It assumes that all the key players will stay healthy. 

[Angelsjunky]

19 minutes ago, Taylor said:

This mentality sounds good on paper but hasn't worked well for the last several years. It assumes that all the key players will stay healthy. 

The problem of health is one faced by every team, every year - and it is virtually impossible to have a back-up for every potential leak in the dam.

What are the options, though?

1. Another scrap heap acquisition, which just increases quantity but not quality.

2. Spending big on Correa or Story, both of whom have question marks (Correa's injury history, which saw him play 110 games or less from 2017-19; and Story's trajectory of decline, with his wRC+ lowering each year from 2018-21).

3. Tradez, which robs Peter to pay Paul.

Also, for the last several years the Angels haven't been as well situated as they are this year to have a very good offense. Ohtani finally put it all together last year; Walsh and Stassi established themselves as solid contributors; Marsh and Adell took a step forward. As I've said before, the Angels don't need all of the big three to be healthy to be very good offensively, probably just two of them (or all three mostly healthy). 

[Taylor]

6 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

The problem of health is one faced by every team, every year - and it is virtually impossible to have a back-up for every potential leak in the dam.

What are the options, though?

1. Another scrap heap acquisition, which just increases quantity but not quality.

2. Spending big on Correa or Story, both of whom have question marks (Correa's injury history, which saw him play 110 games or less from 2017-19; and Story's trajectory of decline, with his wRC+ lowering each year from 2018-21).

3. Tradez, which robs Peter to pay Paul.

Also, for the last several years the Angels haven't been as well situated as they are this year to have a very good offense. Ohtani finally put it all together last year; Walsh and Stassi established themselves as solid contributors; Marsh and Adell took a step forward. As I've said before, the Angels don't need all of the big three to be healthy to be very good offensively, probably just two of them (or all three mostly healthy). 

Good point that there aren't a plethora of great options (SS is such a position of scarcity around the league). If seven or eight guys in the lineup have some ability to hit, having SS be a defense-only position is an okay strategy. It just sucks when a combo of Trout/Rendon/Upton/Ohtani is missing from the lineup and then the 5–9 spots are occupied by automatic outs.

[ukyah]

4 hours ago, Taylor said:

Good point that there aren't a plethora of great options (SS is such a position of scarcity around the league). If seven or eight guys in the lineup have some ability to hit, having SS be a defense-only position is an okay strategy. It just sucks when a combo of Trout/Rendon/Upton/Ohtani is missing from the lineup and then the 5–9 spots are occupied by automatic outs.

i don't think the 5-9 are automatic outs on the angels, by any means.

the key cog in a healthy lineup, in my mind, is fletcher. if he goes back to his hitting ways, then he should be at the top of the lineup, then the angels have a pretty damn good lineup.

fletcher, ohtani, trout, rendon, walsh, adell, marsh, stassi, SS.

there's a lot of good power throughout the lineup and speed at the top of both halves of the lineup. upton moves the pieces around if he's hitting, but if they don't just gift him a starting LF job, then that would be a good problem because it would mean that he was producing power numbers.

they NEED to strengthen their bench with guys who could be producers. i'd like to see tommy pham added. he'd be a great bench addition. jonathon villar would be another superb addition to the bench. both guys are tweeners from the lineup to the bench, so they're realistic bench additions.

[TroutCron]

On 3/13/2022 at 4:07 PM, ScottSted said:

Villar is a lot better than any of these guys

Villar turned down 6.5 miillion from the Jays which is too much for Arte to spend when he has three guys on either the minimum or in Wade’s case maybe 1.5 million. 
 

Bottom line, Arte isn’t interested in winning, if he was he wouldn’t keep the payroll at the same level for years. He certainly won’t go near 210 million, since he opposed the increase in the CBT. There are so many things that need to go right for this team to win 90 games. 

[ThisismineScios]

Fletcher belongs at the bottom of the lineup plain and simple. He needs some more patience but he’s not an OBP guy at all, he’s a guy that will annoy a pitcher and is a tough out. No barrel, high contact, no K’s. Sure I could just be hopeful they make some more moves, but some things that stand out to me about the last few days:

1. The way which Maddon and Trout characterized the roster. Maddon said “We’re not done.” Also implied they need more pitching to get further in the playoffs, “thicker”. Trout said, “He’s obviously not done. Good moves before the lockout.” This is either pressure or people in the know. Considering the statements about how they talk every day, I find it really hard to believe we are done. If the two biggest guys say we’re not done and we nothing else, we have dysfunction beyond measure. And for all the hyperbole from fans, teams just don’t operate like this—lying to your manager and GOAT player. I mean think about it, really: Perry telling Trout more pitching/help is on the way and doing nothing. Why wouldn’t Trout demand a trade? This is public pressure on Perry and Arte. 

2. I do not in any way believe that this team has Velazquez in their minds as their starting SS. Not a chance. The fact that Maddon didn’t name Rengifo and said it’s nobody’s job means they plan to have someone else starting in April. DeJong? Ahmed? FA? Who knows. 

3. Why is Fletcher taking SS reps if they are intent on a first timer winning the job? Don’t they need reps? 

I just feel this adds up to them wanting to do more but exploring their options. The fact that they haven’t been named for the guys that have gone so far means they haven’t been in on them like others. Perry made a bunch of trades last offseason. Let’s wait a week or so to see what happens before crying foul. 

[IheartLA]

We have the worst middle infield in baseball.

Fletcher, Wade, Velazquez - they won't even combine for 10 home runs this year.

[Dtwncbad]

22 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

The problem of health is one faced by every team, every year - and it is virtually impossible to have a back-up for every potential leak in the dam.

What are the options, though?

1. Another scrap heap acquisition, which just increases quantity but not quality.

2. Spending big on Correa or Story, both of whom have question marks (Correa's injury history, which saw him play 110 games or less from 2017-19; and Story's trajectory of decline, with his wRC+ lowering each year from 2018-21).

3. Tradez, which robs Peter to pay Paul.

Also, for the last several years the Angels haven't been as well situated as they are this year to have a very good offense. Ohtani finally put it all together last year; Walsh and Stassi established themselves as solid contributors; Marsh and Adell took a step forward. As I've said before, the Angels don't need all of the big three to be healthy to be very good offensively, probably just two of them (or all three mostly healthy). 

1).  There is no reason to even talk about scrap heap.  The Angels have internal options.  I don’t see them bringing in garbage when they already have bodies here.

2). Keep in mind Story will be half the overall price of Correa.  Maybe even less than that.  Story would be a very large upgrade over what the Angels have in house now.

3). Yes a trade robs Peter to pay Paul.  But there is nothing wrong with that if you determine you need to pay Paul right now.  Right now, the Angels (in my view) need to not have a question mark at SS.

[Angelsjunky]

34 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

1).  There is no reason to even talk about scrap heap.  The Angels have internal options.  I don’t see them bringing in garbage when they already have bodies here.

2). Keep in mind Story will be half the overall price of Correa.  Maybe even less than that.  Story would be a very large upgrade over what the Angels have in house now.

3). Yes a trade robs Peter to pay Paul.  But there is nothing wrong with that if you determine you need to pay Paul right now.  Right now, the Angels (in my view) need to not have a question mark at SS.

My concern about Story is overrating him because of his 2018-19 performance, when he averaged around .292/.360/.535 with 36 HR and 25 SB, 5.5 WAR. That was in Coors, so his wRC+ is actually "only" about 125 for those two years. Still very good, but not quite as good as only his counting numbers suggest. Plus, he dropped off quite a bit in 2021, hitting .251/.329/.471 with 100 wRC+ (average) and 3.5 WAR.

That said, I suspect he'll bounce back a bit, and even outside of Coors should still hit about .270/.330/.500 with 110 wRC+ and 4+ WAR, which is much better than what we'll get out of Rengiwadiquez. Plus, he's a pretty good defender, at least according to Def. But for how much? 5/$110M? Will Arte pay that? 

[Dtwncbad]

6 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

My concern about Story is overrating him because of his 2018-19 performance, when he averaged around .292/.360/.535 with 36 HR and 25 SB, 5.5 WAR. That was in Coors, so his wRC+ is actually "only" about 125 for those two years. Still very good, but not quite as good as only his counting numbers suggest. Plus, he dropped off quite a bit in 2021, hitting .251/.329/.471 with 100 wRC+ (average) and 3.5 WAR.

That said, I suspect he'll bounce back a bit, and even outside of Coors should still hit about .270/.330/.500 with 110 wRC+ and 4+ WAR, which is much better than what we'll get out of Rengiwadiquez. Plus, he's a pretty good defender, at least according to Def. But for how much? 5/$110M? Will Arte pay that? 

I would argue he is underrated relative to Correa.  If Story delivered a steady 3-4 WAR he is plenty to check off the box at SS.  That would be a huge upgrade for this team.

Correa has been basically a 5 WAR player.  I will take Story all day long for the price he will be compared to Correa.

Edited March 15, 2022 by Dtwncbad

[HanfordGuy]

On 3/13/2022 at 1:47 PM, Lou said:

Hey, two "vice versa" posts in succession!

Little known fact, “Vice Versa” is one of my aliases in adult entertainment.

[HanfordGuy]

On 3/13/2022 at 2:08 PM, Lou said:

Living in the past. He hasn't been great for a few years. For the record, I loved Simmons. 

[Tank]

when you have all-world talent like trout and ohtani on your team, and you haven't sniffed the playoffs in too many years, you need to find players that will produce. i don't want some hack playing short like velazquez or rengifo, and fletcher would be out of position there, so he's not an option either.

go call story and see what it'll take to sign him.

[BTH]

I think it's worth noting that just because they say they're going with an internal competition, it doesn't mean they actually will.

For example: Aaron Boone said Gio Urshela was the Yankees SS on Sunday morning. By the end of the day, he wasn't on the team anymore.

So I still wouldn't be surprised if they add a cheap 2B in free agency and move Fletcher to SS.

[T.G.]

1 hour ago, Tank said:

go call story and see what it'll take to sign him.

Isn't that what you're here for?