Angels prospects you were dead wrong about?

[tdawg87]

5 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

Rowand was more than just a guy. If that's now the standard for how that term is used, the bar is now set too high. In a typical year, maybe 2 or 3 first round picks will end up with more career WAR than Rowand. Did scouts and other teams underestimate Trout's potential? Yep.  But comping him to a player who still had a successful career doesn't seem like something to mock.

You can't really reasonably expect any scout to accurately project someone to be an all-time great. 

(And the Ohtani/Lorenzen comp is a bad analogy.)

Rowand was worth just over 2 fWAR a year with a 99 OPS+. That's the definition of "a guy". 

And the Ohtani/Lorenzen comp is fine. 

[tdawg87]

Angelswin legend Randy Winn had a higher career WAR.

[BTH]

Nate Smith- I thought he'd be a solid back-end SP, and he never ended up reaching the majors (primarily due to injury)

Eduardo Paredes- I thought he'd be a decent middle reliever, and he was horrendous.

[tdawg87]

4 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Angelswin legend Randy Winn had a higher career WAR.

Jarrod Washburn had a 21 fWAR.

[Angels 1961]

Bob Sprout followed by Jackie Warner

[jsnpritchett]

1 hour ago, tdawg87 said:

Rowand was worth just over 2 fWAR a year with a 99 OPS+. That's the definition of "a guy". 

And the Ohtani/Lorenzen comp is fine. 

Ok, we're clearly coming at this from two very different standpoints, so I don't think it'll be productive to continue.

[disarcina]

On 2/6/2022 at 7:04 PM, Second Base said:

I used to keep a list, but I've done misplaced it. Brandon Wood, Trevor Reckling, Nick Maronde and Kyle Kubitza on overestimating. 

Mark Trumbo and Peter Bourjos were the drastic underestimations. I didn't think Trumbo would make enough contact to be a consistent MLB player and I hated Bourjos' swing the same way I hated Rob Quinlan's stupid swing. But as it stands, Trumbo and Bourjos actually had nice careers. Not superstars but decent regulars for sure. 

I did say when Walsh was drafted he had legitimate MLB corner infield power, and I usually ranked him 25-30. That counts as underestimating seeing as he's an MLB all-star. I also said Shoemaker was a legit 4-5 starter and for a couple years he was quite a bit more than that, so wrong there too. David Fletcher, I said was a below average starting infielder and above average utility man. As it stands right now, he's better than that. 

 

Peter Bourjos had a pretty good run with us for about two to three seasons -- he was amazing in CF and quick on the base paths. Bourjos was a fun player to watch and root for. His second stint with the Angels was probably a nostalgic type mistake - but he did do well in Spring Training that year before fizzling out - I think - before mid-season.  Trumbo had some power and had his moments as a Halo - the roster was congested with DH/1B types and he wasn't really great in the field in the OF.  And, YES, Trumbo seemed to strike out a bunch.  He got moved and I think did well with his new team. So I think you can re-evaluate the 'drastic under-estimation' of those two -- they helped the Halos during their time here.   Also - what you're seeing here is the current day MLB roster/ payroll situation as well. Players don't remain with one team for years as in bygone days. Any player reaching 'veteran' type status with increasing salary to match becomes very expendable - if they're bench depth guys AND if they are not producing NOW ('what have you done for me lately?')  That's just the economics of MLB today a trend which will only continue to accelerate after the current MLBPA contract is finally agreed upon - whenever that may be -- gone in MLB is that "John Havlichek" (using NBA sixth man example) depth guy who really makes a difference.  In MLB - it's often a MIF slick glove guy or a key pen depth pre-set up guy who can also do long relief and perhaps spot start -- usually veteran players who have been around and really add to the experience of the team and can be a positive clubhouse influence.  These days - those guys are gone -- the club would rather have a younger player, perhaps just out of college ball to take that roster spot and be paid the major league minimum (which the MLBPA now is asking to be about $750,000 a year - that's some minimum).  Today's players need to make their mark and produce or they're gone. Teams far less willing to pay for 'past performance' for fan favorite veteran -- and that 'fan favorite' veteran these days may have been with the team perhaps only 3-4 years -- the roster turnover year to year is incredible and also IMO, something that is impacting the game's popularity and a cause for concern.   As for prospects -- the Angels future may have been cast years ago when they 'won' the Baby Bonus (remember those days? -- before the amateur draft) and sign Rick Reichardt to a then just 'unheard of' $200,000 bonus without having played a single game of pro ball. Reichardt was billed to be the next Mantle etc. and hyped up big time (nothing like the social media/ instant access stuff of today) - he had a decent Halos career and later with the White Sox - he also played with an injury that wasn't fully disclosed/ known about until his playing days were over -- but he had a pretty good overall MLB career -- but never fulfilled the hype as the game's 'next superstar' when he first signed as a multi-sport guy out of, I think, Wisconsin. 

[aznhockeyguy]

Griffin Canning, I remember him getting drafted in the 2nd round due to arm concerns when he was a definite 1st round talent, based on his college career.  He then proceeds to do very well in the minors and then gets called up and had a solid half season.  Thought he was on well on his way to being a solid starter, then last season it fell apart.  There's still time, but I hope he figures it out. 

[jsnpritchett]

2 hours ago, disarcina said:

Peter Bourjos had a pretty good run with us for about two to three seasons -- he was amazing in CF and quick on the base paths. Bourjos was a fun player to watch and root for. His second stint with the Angels was probably a nostalgic type mistake - but he did do well in Spring Training that year before fizzling out - I think - before mid-season.  Trumbo had some power and had his moments as a Halo - the roster was congested with DH/1B types and he wasn't really great in the field in the OF.  And, YES, Trumbo seemed to strike out a bunch.  He got moved and I think did well with his new team. So I think you can re-evaluate the 'drastic under-estimation' of those two -- they helped the Halos during their time here.   Also - what you're seeing here is the current day MLB roster/ payroll situation as well. Players don't remain with one team for years as in bygone days. Any player reaching 'veteran' type status with increasing salary to match becomes very expendable - if they're bench depth guys AND if they are not producing NOW ('what have you done for me lately?')  That's just the economics of MLB today a trend which will only continue to accelerate after the current MLBPA contract is finally agreed upon - whenever that may be -- gone in MLB is that "John Havlichek" (using NBA sixth man example) depth guy who really makes a difference.  In MLB - it's often a MIF slick glove guy or a key pen depth pre-set up guy who can also do long relief and perhaps spot start -- usually veteran players who have been around and really add to the experience of the team and can be a positive clubhouse influence.  These days - those guys are gone -- the club would rather have a younger player, perhaps just out of college ball to take that roster spot and be paid the major league minimum (which the MLBPA now is asking to be about $750,000 a year - that's some minimum).  Today's players need to make their mark and produce or they're gone. Teams far less willing to pay for 'past performance' for fan favorite veteran -- and that 'fan favorite' veteran these days may have been with the team perhaps only 3-4 years -- the roster turnover year to year is incredible and also IMO, something that is impacting the game's popularity and a cause for concern.   As for prospects -- the Angels future may have been cast years ago when they 'won' the Baby Bonus (remember those days? -- before the amateur draft) and sign Rick Reichardt to a then just 'unheard of' $200,000 bonus without having played a single game of pro ball. Reichardt was billed to be the next Mantle etc. and hyped up big time (nothing like the social media/ instant access stuff of today) - he had a decent Halos career and later with the White Sox - he also played with an injury that wasn't fully disclosed/ known about until his playing days were over -- but he had a pretty good overall MLB career -- but never fulfilled the hype as the game's 'next superstar' when he first signed as a multi-sport guy out of, I think, Wisconsin. 

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-7VPC3OteLMA/UP9mCWDdW-I/AAAAAAAABYk/opHIzriyV1s/s1600/disable_enter_key_press_event_submitting_form.jpg

[ScruffytheJanitor]

Another name just randomly popped into my head -- Matt Sweeney. I fell in love with that dude's swing -- which was one of the prettiest left handed swings I had seen to that point -- and genuinely thought he'd be a regular all-star. 

[Inside Pitch]

Keith Luuloa, Michael Kohn, Hank Conger.

Luuloa took this huge step forward in AAA, actually walked more than he K'ed, showed really good pop for a middle IFer..  Turns out it was PEDs.  

I thought Kohn was going to be the next Angels home grown closer..   Absolutely obliterated guys in the minors, had early success first year then his second season he came in throwing hard but super flat, turned out it was TJ and he never got the life back in his pitches.  Dude's slider was evil.

Hank Conger ..   I thought he had enough bat to make it at the very least and his work behind the plate in the minors and early on in MLB was strong enough I believed at worst he was going to be one of those guys that would spend a decade in the majors on the strength of his defense then he completely imploded.  The bat just dried up and the defense completely regressed.

[Inside Pitch]

4 hours ago, ScruffytheJanitor said:

Another name just randomly popped into my head -- Matt Sweeney. I fell in love with that dude's swing -- which was one of the prettiest left handed swings I had seen to that point -- and genuinely thought he'd be a regular all-star. 

Sweeney is another one of those guys who had the talent but the body betrayed him.  

[Inside Pitch]

On 2/6/2022 at 11:27 PM, Chuckster70 said:

Brandon Wood, Trevor Reckling, Dallas McPherson, George Arias, Todd Greene, Lee Stevens, Brian Specht, Joe Torres, Hilly Hathaway, Nathan Haynes, Jeremy Moore and Casey Kotchman.

I would often use Nathan Haynes as an example of a guy who looks like he should be a future all star but has no clue how to play baseball.   Dude practiced like he was Griffey, but once games started it was deer in headlights time.  He was frustrating to watch because he had really good pitch recognition but just awful bat to ball skills.

[Slegnaac]

I thought Howie Kendrick was going to win multiple batting titles. 

Such a disappointment. 

[Blarg]

On 2/7/2022 at 11:24 AM, Dtwncbad said:

I will admit I thought Daryl Sconiers was going to be a mainstay at 1B for the Angels for 15 years.

His numbers in AA and AAA had me convinced he would just rake.  He had it all. Average. On base. Slugging.

I was so let down.

What he also had was a cocaine addiction. I was with you on thinking he would be a mainstay at 1st base. Sadly the 80's in baseball cocainee was more prevalent than steroids in 2000-2005. 

[Dtwncbad]

12 minutes ago, Blarg said:

What he also had was a cocaine addiction. I was with you on thinking he would be a mainstay at 1st base. Sadly the 80's in baseball cocainee was more prevalent than steroids in 2000-2005. 

Yup.  100%.

[Erstad Grit]

I thought Sean Rodriguez would be a 20/20 guy in our infield. 

Too many failed pitching prospects to even focus on one.  

[Dtwncbad]

6 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

I thought Sean Rodriguez would be a 20/20 guy in our infield. 

Too many failed pitching prospects to even focus on one.  

I could see why you would see that with Rodriguez.  I saw him as a 10/10 guy as a part timer, so basically the same production RATE but limited to not being an everyday player.

[AngelsLakersFan]

On 2/6/2022 at 11:05 PM, Stradling said:

I think I counted 16 of the top 20 spent time in the majors. 

Imagine if the team had decided to rebuild in 2010 instead of going hard for it every year. They would've been in a great place just a few years later.

[AngelsFaninGA]

Zach Borenstein

[Tank]

jordan walden looked like he was going to be a solid closer for many years. oh well.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

Kaleb Cowart

[Vlad27Trout27]

Baldoquin! (Is that how you spell his name?) Had everyone fooled in the organization  

[bruin5]

This goes back a bit, but Willie Mays Aikens.   Big left handed hitting first baseman.  SI did a cover story on the Angels farm system that said, “The Angels Prospects are Heavenly”.  Aikens was on the cover. 

Aikens spent 2 years with the Angels and then was traded to KC where I believe he was part of a WS Championship.  

In the 80’s there was no such thing as playing prospects (except for Joyner).  Otherwise it was win now for Gene Autry.  

[gurn67]

Todd Greene. I thought with his short, compact power swing he was going to be consistently around where he was in 1997 for the next 5 years. .280-.300 BA & .500-550 SLG.