Top 100 players of all time

[T.G.]

3 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

I hope you're joking, but I'm guessing you're not. Griffey is 42nd all-time among hitters in fWAR (and 65th if you include pitchers), 184th all-time in wRC+. Why, exactly, should he be higher than 13th, other than "I remember him being really good on TV a few years ago."

I could see top 50, but not top 30, and certainly not 13th.

Dude, relax.  The term "greatest" or even "most valuable" can be and is often "subjective." Your personal definition of greatest isn't universal. 

Edited February 6, 2022 by True Grich

[T.G.]

As for Jeter...

Given the impressive list of women he's dated over the years,  he's most definitely a top ten player. 

[Dtwncbad]

15 minutes ago, True Grich said:

As for Jeter...

Given the impressive list of women he's dated over the years,  he's most definitely a top ten player. 

Wait, are looking at the “dated” list or the “mated” list?

[Taylor]

7 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Wait, are looking at the “dated” list or the “mated” list?

For the Jeets, there's no difference.

[Blarg]

4 hours ago, cals said:

I would never joke about the greatness of Derek Jeter.  Remember when he saved that kid from the collision at home plate during the World Series?  He’s a hero in my book.

That was JT Snow plucking Dusty Bakers kid off of home plate in the 2002 World Series.

 

 

[tdawg87]

6 minutes ago, Blarg said:

That was JT Snow plucking Dusty Bakers kid off of home plate in the 2002 World Series.

 

 

Fuckin stupid kid.

[Taylor]

56 minutes ago, Blarg said:

That was JT Snow plucking Dusty Bakers kid off of home plate in the 2002 World Series.

 

 

Yeah but Jeter.

[happybat4]

I'm not seeing Abreu!

[happybat4]

I want to see a reverse list. 

The worst 100 players of all time. The Angels should have a few.

 

 

 

[beatlesrule]

19 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

Bryce Harper? Way too soon.

LOL at Ken Griffey Jr at #13.

Some will argue he's too high on this list; don't tell that to kids of the '90s.

That writer knows. Griffey Jr is my favorite player but #13 all time? No. The numbers he would have put up if he stayed healthy would likely have gotten him for sure top 10 but he didn't stay healthy. How many more assists would Magic have if he didn't get HIV? Even Trout is listed at #15 because the injuries. Writer also lists the Angels incompetence at winning but that has nothing to do with how good Trout is. The article did get a good amount of players right from my skimming but like it's already been mentioned, this is not going only by numbers, stats, etc.  A lot of top lists with anything always seem to never be accepted by all.

[Pancake Bear]

6 hours ago, True Grich said:

Dude, relax.  The term "greatest" or even "most valuable" can be and is often "subjective." Your personal definition of greatest isn't universal. 

 

9 hours ago, True Grich said:

He was magical. 

Well, gosh, clearly ESPN should've ranked them by the subjective criteria of most magical. 

By any objective ranking, Griffey is WAY too high at 13th all time. (Trout is also too high on that list, fwiw - he hasn't earned it yet). 

[Angelsjunky]

3 hours ago, happybat4 said:

I want to see a reverse list. 

The worst 100 players of all time. The Angels should have a few.

 

This made me wonder...who has the most negative WAR in baseball history?

The answer is Bill Bergen, a platoon catcher in the early 1900s with -16.2 career WAR and a .170/.194/.201 line in 3228 PA. 22 wRC+. Sort of a Jeff Mathis type, evidently.

More recently, Ryan Doumit had -8.6 WAR in 3407 PA.

The lowest WAR for a single season was -4.0 by Jim Levey in 1933, who also has the 5th worst season.

The lowest WAR of the 21st century is Ryan Doumit in 2008 with -3.4. Crazy thing, though, is he hit .318/.357/.501, but had a -60.4 Def, which is by far the worst Def season in baseball history (2nd worst is -44.8 by Adam Dunn in 2009). BR has Doumit at 3.3 WAR that year...that's a 6.9 WAR difference between FG and BR.

Hmm...I think Doumit's 2008 season broke WAR.

[Angelsjunky]

7 hours ago, True Grich said:

Dude, relax.  The term "greatest" or even "most valuable" can be and is often "subjective." Your personal definition of greatest isn't universal. 

Of course not. But what do you think my personal definition is? WAR is just easy and useful, but I'm not a "WAR absolutist." See my above post...sometimes it gets wonky (e.g. Ryan Doumit).

1 hour ago, Pancake Bear said:

 

Well, gosh, clearly ESPN should've ranked them by the subjective criteria of most magical. 

By any objective ranking, Griffey is WAY too high at 13th all time. (Trout is also too high on that list, fwiw - he hasn't earned it yet). 

The latter point is key: "by any objective ranking." True Grich wants to reduce everything to subjectivity, but baseball is a game of stats and you can make actual arguments using them.

Griffey was a great player, but he is a bit overrated. 

[T.G.]

1 hour ago, Pancake Bear said:

 

Well, gosh, clearly ESPN should've ranked them by the subjective criteria of most magical. 

By any objective ranking, Griffey is WAY too high at 13th all time. (Trout is also too high on that list, fwiw - he hasn't earned it yet). 

AJ and the word "magical" have a history.  It was a joke.

[T.G.]

16 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Of course not. But what do you think my personal definition is? WAR is just easy and useful, but I'm not a "WAR absolutist." See my above post...sometimes it gets wonky (e.g. Ryan Doumit).

The latter point is key: "by any objective ranking." True Grich wants to reduce everything to subjectivity, but baseball is a game of stats and you can make actual arguments using them.

Griffey was a great player, but he is a bit overrated. 

I really don't care. So again.... relax

[happybat4]

8 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

This made me wonder...who has the most negative WAR in baseball history?

The answer is Bill Bergen, a platoon catcher in the early 1900s with -16.2 career WAR and a .170/.194/.201 line in 3228 PA. 22 wRC+. Sort of a Jeff Mathis type, evidently.

More recently, Ryan Doumit had -8.6 WAR in 3407 PA.

The lowest WAR for a single season was -4.0 by Jim Levey in 1933, who also has the 5th worst season.

The lowest WAR of the 21st century is Ryan Doumit in 2008 with -3.4. Crazy thing, though, is he hit .318/.357/.501, but had a -60.4 Def, which is by far the worst Def season in baseball history (2nd worst is -44.8 by Adam Dunn in 2009). BR has Doumit at 3.3 WAR that year...that's a 6.9 WAR difference between FG and BR.

Hmm...I think Doumit's 2008 season broke WAR.

I always wonder how the determine defensive WAR for players back then.

[happybat4]

8 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

This made me wonder...who has the most negative WAR in baseball history?

The answer is Bill Bergen, a platoon catcher in the early 1900s with -16.2 career WAR and a .170/.194/.201 line in 3228 PA. 22 wRC+. Sort of a Jeff Mathis type, evidently.

More recently, Ryan Doumit had -8.6 WAR in 3407 PA.

The lowest WAR for a single season was -4.0 by Jim Levey in 1933, who also has the 5th worst season.

The lowest WAR of the 21st century is Ryan Doumit in 2008 with -3.4. Crazy thing, though, is he hit .318/.357/.501, but had a -60.4 Def, which is by far the worst Def season in baseball history (2nd worst is -44.8 by Adam Dunn in 2009). BR has Doumit at 3.3 WAR that year...that's a 6.9 WAR difference between FG and BR.

Hmm...I think Doumit's 2008 season broke WAR.

Baseball Reference has Doumit at a career +8.9 War.

Yeah his 2008 season seems weird. Baseball reference has him at 3.3 (his best season) and a his defense was positive (0.5) according to Baseball Reference.

Fangraphs has that same season (2008) as -3.4 and says his defense was atrocious. That is a 6 WAR gap between fan graphs and baseball reference for the same season.

[Angelsjunky]

10 hours ago, True Grich said:

I really don't care. So again.... relax

I'm quite relaxed, thanks.

[Angelsjunky]

1 hour ago, happybat4 said:

Baseball Reference has Doumit at a career +8.9 War.

Yeah his 2008 season seems weird. Baseball reference has him at 3.3 (his best season) and a his defense was positive (0.5) according to Baseball Reference.

Fangraphs has that same season (2008) as -3.4 and says his defense was atrocious. That is a 6 WAR gap between fan graphs and baseball reference for the same season.

Yeah, I included those numbers in my previous post. It is actually a 6.9 difference...I wonder if that's the biggest gap of any player season. Maybe I'll try to pester one of the FG writers about this in a chat.

[Angelsjunky]

1 hour ago, happybat4 said:

I always wonder how the determine defensive WAR for players back then.

I read about it somewhere - I think they say on the website, but I can't remember. It is sketchy, though, and based on limited data.

[yamsi12]

Albert at 30 is laughable. Should be at least in the top 20 if not higher. Griffey Jr. at 13….hahaha. Albert was disrespected.
 

Dont even get me started on Jeter.

[HanfordGuy]

On 2/6/2022 at 9:47 AM, Dtwncbad said:

there will be a tidal wave of voices that come after the sleazeball Jeter for his womanizing ways and “generosity” (gift baskets).

Gift baskets = herpes???