Official 2021-22 Hot Stove League Thread.

[CanadianHalo]

A Ray signing by itself will be meh. A Ray signing combined with another free agent pitcher signing would be HUGE. 

I rather not go the trade route but if it’s that or nothing then so be it.

[mmc]

So if we do pivot to a SS do you guys want Seager, Story, Baez, or Correa?  And which do you think we're most likely to end up with?

[CanadianHalo]

I’m not sure if I would cry or just laugh if we actually spent significant money on a shortstop

[Chuck]

6 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Sign a SS and trade for an arm.  That is how the pivot should go down if you have to pivot.

Yep. That's how I would go about this offseason if Ray signs elsewhere and we miss out on Stroman and Rodon. 

[rottiesworld]

21 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Big halo news coming this afternoon or evening. 

Yeah that Arte saved a lot of money with geico and has money for his fuel for his yacht.

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 minute ago, mmc said:

So if we do pivot to a SS do you guys want Seager, Story, Baez, or Correa?  And which do you think we're most likely to end up with?

I think Story and Baez would be the more affordable... but still too much

[jsnpritchett]

3 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I'd rather sign Chris Taylor for SS and RF coverage. A lot less money and time commitment, and he sort of covers two needs in one move.

Personally, I think Taylor has gone from being underrated to perhaps being overrated.  Yes, he has defensive versatility--but is he actually all that great defensively at SS, which seems to be the biggest immediate positional need for the Angels?  I'd love to see some stats that show he's actually really solid (I'm not saying they don't exist--I just haven't seen them).

I also worry that within a couple years, he'll be hitting something like .240/.320/.420, and if his defense at SS isn't great, then he's just sort of "meh."

[ten ocho recon scout]

3 minutes ago, CanadianHalo said:

A Ray signing by itself will be meh. A Ray signing combined with another free agent pitcher signing would be HUGE. 

Guess you missed the Lorenzen news yesterday, amigo

[Dtwncbad]

5 minutes ago, Second Base said:

I disagree. All those years, all those one year contracts, all that money, down the toilet. The Angels would've been smart to save some of those bullets for a truly elite FA starter. 

Pivoting fails to address the actual need and tried to compensate by building a more one dimensional team, and most importantly....

IT NEVER WORKS.

Spending 36 million on Gerrit Cole would've been dumb, but necessary. Spending 34 million in Anthony Rendon.... Possibly worse. I like Rendon, but he isn't a pitcher and won't be traded for a pitcher and now the viability of the infield defense and middle of the order offense now rests on a 30-something athlete. They lived their teens and 20's harder than you or I and it's difficult to maintain health into your 30's comparatively. 

Your argument would make sense if they signed Correa and did not trade for the pitching they need.

Nobody is suggesting that.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Dtwncbad

[ten ocho recon scout]

3 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Yep. That's how I would go about this offseason if Ray signs elsewhere and we miss out on Stroman and Rodon. 

Personally, if we miss out on Stroman Im gonna be pissed. I prefer him to Ray, but Ill be pleased to get either.

Neither would be ridiculous.

[Second Base]

1 minute ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Personally, if we miss out on Stroman Im gonna be pissed. I prefer him to Ray, but Ill be pleased to get either.

Neither would be ridiculous.

[angelsnationtalk]

Why are we hopping on the pivot train already?

Sign Ray, bring back Iglesias, and if Perry wants to keep it going then let's see if Castillo is possible.

Get 3 solid arms instead of 1.

[totdprods]

Just now, jsnpritchett said:

Personally, I think Taylor has gone from being underrated to perhaps being overrated.  Yes, he has defensive versatility--but is he actually all that great defensively at SS, which seems to be the biggest immediate positional need for the Angels?  I'd love to see some stats that show he's actually really solid (I'm not saying they don't exist--I just haven't seen them).

I also worry that within a couple years, he'll be hitting something like .240/.320/.420, and if his defense at SS isn't great, then he's just sort of "meh."

I agree. It's not a perfect solution. But the fact that (especially if we trade an OF prospect and a SS prospect for someone like Castillo or Gray) he could give us at least a half-of-the-time option at SS and RF when we both need those now and likely following a trade boosts his value to the Halos. 

In a year or two? Yeah, could be Cozart part two or an expensive UT IF, but that's part of the risk you take in FA. 

As constructed, if the Angels have a really good defensive back-up SS on the 26-man, like Wade or Velazquez, you can survive with Taylor/Fletcher getting a chunk of SS playing time for the first 2/3 of a game. Move Taylor out to LF to replace Upton or RF if you need his bat in there still, and put the glove-first SS out to wrap the game. 

It's a perfect fit as the roster stands now and following a trade, but maybe only for this year. Jonathan Villar could be an option too.

[Second Base]

3 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Your argument would make sense if they signed Correa and did not trade for the pitching they need.

Nobody is suggesting that.

And yet that's what ends up happening when the Angels pivot. 

[Chuck]

1 minute ago, angelsnationtalk said:

Why are we hopping on the pivot train already?

Sign Ray, bring back Iglesias, and if Perry wants to keep it going then let's see if Castillo is possible.

Get 3 solid arms instead of 1.

You always have to have a plan B, C or D if plan A falls through. 

Plus it's fun to talk about different scenarios. 

[Dtwncbad]

2 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Personally, if we miss out on Stroman Im gonna be pissed. I prefer him to Ray, but Ill be pleased to get either.

Neither would be ridiculous.

I want Ray over Stroman mostly because I think he has a better chance at being truly dominant in a postseason.  Ray’s stuff is better without much question.

But I see the value in Stroman too.  He is good.  He can win games and he takes the ball 30+ times a year.  I will not be disappointed if it is Stroman. 

[Hubs]

39 minutes ago, zenmaster said:

Mets payroll currently at $267M and likely will surpass $300M before it’s all said done. I guess Cohen really is willing to spend whatever it takes. 

They spent some serious cash this week, but...

Their active 2022 payroll was at 175. They haven't added the free agent deals to this, cuz they don't know the breakdowns by year yet.

Lux Tax at 267 on Spotrac. Crazy high.

For the record, Spotrac has the Angels at $150,850,000, with the 2.25 in signing bonus money that they still reflect on current payroll even though it was paid in 2019 (Trout) and 2020 (Rendon).

That gives them $30 or so to match last year, and as much as $40 left.

Their Lux Tax I at $171, giving them just under $40 in AAV contracts to hand out before reaching the 2021 threshold of 210M. 

[Angels_Make_Me_Drink]

I’m putting all of my faith in this birdie. I hope we end up with Ray. Castillo is going to cost an arm and a leg. And the more big pitchers that come off the board, the higher his tag gets. 

[angelsnationtalk]

1 minute ago, Chuckster70 said:

You always have to have a plan B, C or D if plan A falls through. 

Plus it's fun to talk about different scenarios. 

It is, but at the bottom of my soul I cringe whenever we have the "pivot to fielders" scenarios. It's all too common with this team haha.

[Hubs]

Angels were 7th in payroll last year. With teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers and now Mets, do we really think the Angels aren't spending to win?

 

[T.G.]

[totdprods]

12 minutes ago, CanadianHalo said:

A Ray signing by itself will be meh. A Ray signing combined with another free agent pitcher signing would be HUGE. 

I rather not go the trade route but if it’s that or nothing then so be it.

How? The guy just won a Cy Young, and we've added Noah Syndergaard. 

Ray and Syndergaard would be a fantastic duo to add. And I know Lorenzen doesn't seem like much, but neither did Alex Cobb. If we added Ray and stopped there for the rotation we'd be just fine. 

If we added Ray and stopped adding to pitching at all - as in no solid relievers - then I'd worry.

[Dtwncbad]

12 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Yep. That's how I would go about this offseason if Ray signs elsewhere and we miss out on Stroman and Rodon. 

But that isn’t going to happen right?  We heard there is basically a done deal that we just have to wait for the the announcement!

Right?

 

[Second Base]

Ok here's an idea, plans a, b, c, d, e, and f are all good pitchers. Plan A, Syndergaard because Minasian saw something they can correct. Great. Plan b, Scherzer. Ok, Mets blew their wad on him. Fine. Pivot, plan c is Ray, plan d is Stroman. Plan e was Jon Gray but Texas decided to spend with the big boys. No problem, we have alternatives. Plan f is trading for Castillo. 

But NONE of these plans involve spending money otherwise set aside for pitching, on a freaking shortstop. 

Also, the Harvey-Cahills of the world are NOT something we pivot to. Ever. You might as well just roll the dice with Barria, Detmers, Davis etc... Before spending on another reclamation project. We have enough of those. 

Do not pivot to position players or bad pitchers. It doesn't work. 

[Angelsfan1984]

5 minutes ago, Angels_Make_Me_Drink said:

I’m putting all of my faith in this birdie. I hope we end up with Ray. Castillo is going to cost an arm and a leg. And the more big pitchers that come off the board, the higher his tag gets. 

Luckily the arms and legs the Angels have typically need some kind of surgery. Probably worth the cost at this point