Joe Maddon on the state of the Angels

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, mmc said:

What team that's trying to win (not committed to a rebuild) keeps their GM after 5 losing seasons?

The one where the owner is half-assing things.   My biggest fear moving forward is that Minasian is going to have to do the same shit Eppler did and by that I mean try to find a way to appease the owner while having his hands tied in multiple areas.

I genuinely wish better for Minasian.

[Angel Oracle]

2 hours ago, mmc said:

you don't build your team exclusively through free agency/trades but in one offseason Minasian acquired a better starter and reliever than Eppler acquired over his entire tenure (not counting Ohtani as he was a prospect).  Just proves how shitty Eppler was at his job as far as I'm concerned

Eppler belongs in a farm building position.   He was mostly terrible at acquisitions.

Ask yourselves, what Eppler MLB acquisitions truly worked out in the long run, other than Ohtani and maybe Rendon ($245 million health question mark)?

Now also ask this question.

Why were Eppler and Minasian something like options 4/5 in the GM search?

Does Arte Moreno have a bad rep amongst the solid FO people in MLB?

Those will likely lead to who is responsible for the 2nd worst period in franchise history.

Arte Moreno only did well in 2005-2009 basically because of what Stoneman left him and one FA class (2004).

Edited September 27, 2021 by Angel Oracle

[Inside Pitch]

8 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Eppler belongs in a farm building position.   He was mostly terrible at acquisitions.

Ask yourselves, what Eppler MLB acquisitions truly worked out in the long run, other than Ohtani and maybe Rendon ($245 million health question mark)?

This would be as cut and dried as you make it if the guys he got were plan A.   In most cases they were plan B, C, and D.   I can list about 10-11 guys in the pen he found that gave the team useful innings.  Pretty much all his FA signings were guys on the margins -- the one guy that wasn't and was just a flat out miss on was Cosart -- that was just a complete whiff.   I personally hated the Harvey and Allen deals most of all just because those were two guys I had put on my ANYONE BUT THIS GUY list....  Lucroy was another awful move.

For the life of me I still don't understand how Allen was projected to get a two year deal by most places.

[Docwaukee]

2 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Eppler belongs in a farm building position.   He was mostly terrible at acquisitions.

Ask yourselves, what Eppler MLB acquisitions truly worked out in the long run, other than Ohtani and maybe Rendon ($245 million health question mark)?

I would be curious as to the success rate of most GM's who have no farm resources and no or a limited budget in order to try and create a competitive major league club.   I would say that Zaidi has done a pretty amazing job to get what they're getting out of that team and actually restore what was a pretty bad farm just a couple of years ago.  Although they're pretty much set to lose just about every guy who's contributing or have to pay top dollar to keep them which they might.   

[Inside Pitch]

20 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I would be curious as to the success rate of most GM's who have no farm resources and no or a limited budget in order to try and create a competitive major league club.   I would say that Zaidi has done a pretty amazing job to get what they're getting out of that team and actually restore what was a pretty bad farm just a couple of years ago.  Although they're pretty much set to lose just about every guy who's contributing or have to pay top dollar to keep them which they might.   

Giants and Mariners will be super interesting to watch this winter.   Pretty amazing results by both teams..  One riding a bunch of seasons that came out of nowhere, the other the sort of clutch performances you just couldn't predict.  I never would have bet that Longo and Crawford would come back from the dead they way they have.

[beatlesrule]

Maddon is a part of the problem so he is basically telling his bosses to fire him.

[Docwaukee]

11 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Giants and Mariners will be super interesting to watch this winter.   Pretty amazing results by both teams..  One riding a bunch of seasons that came out of nowhere, the other the sort of clutch performances you just couldn't predict.  I never would have bet that Longo and Crawford would come back from the dead they way they have.

and also getting a bunch of decent to good seasons out of such a random assortment of guys in their 30's.   They'll have a crap ton of money to spend this winter.   

Seattle is gonna need significant progression from a bunch of young guys to make up for their luck from this year which they may get in part, but there's no way that pen performance is repeated.  

[mmc]

Subjected myself to my bimonthly Roger Lodge torture and some guy called in asking about if we’ll keep Raisel Iglesias to which Roger replied that Arte and Perry know he’s the best reliever in the league so there’s no chance that they let him walk and another guy who kept talking about how crappy all of our big free agent position player signings have been and one name he kept mentioning before being told by Roger that he never signed with the Angels was Juan Encarnacion

[Inside Pitch]

2 minutes ago, mmc said:

Subjected myself to my bimonthly Roger Lodge torture and some guy called in asking about if we’ll keep Raisel Iglesias to which Roger replied that Arte and Perry know he’s the best reliever in the league so there’s no chance that they let him walk and another guy who kept talking about how crappy all of our big free agent position player signings have been and one name he kept mentioning before being told by Roger that he never signed with the Angels was Juan Encarnacion

Twitter is my train wreck of choice.  I feel your pain.

[Inside Pitch]

41 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

Seattle is gonna need significant progression from a bunch of young guys to make up for their luck from this year which they may get in part, but there's no way that pen performance is repeated.  

At least Seattle has all those young guys at ages where they should start producing... In that respect they are maybe better positioned than the Giants.  But there is nothing about the M's 2021 that could be considered a repeatable skill, and so far their youth movement has not really hit the ground running.   Kyle Lewis had his big 30 days and won a ROY and Gilbert is going to be really good too.   The next batch with Julio Rodriguez, Hancock and Kirby should be interesting.

[eligrba]

3 hours ago, mmc said:

I have no idea if Minasian will be a good GM or better than Eppler

I do. Minasian is turible. He took a mediocre roster and made it worse. The only saving grace were the young pitchers who Eppler found.  Minasian either doesn’t know what he is doing or he is listening to people who don’t know what they are doing.

[eligrba]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

Giants and Mariners will be super interesting to watch this winter.   Pretty amazing results by both teams..  One riding a bunch of seasons that came out of nowhere, the other the sort of clutch performances you just couldn't predict.  I never would have bet that Longo and Crawford would come back from the dead they way they have.

Giants made some great choices in free agent signings. They seem to have a clear understanding of how to utilize their players to maximize productivity.

[ScottT]

6 hours ago, eligrba said:

Giants made some great choices in free agent signings. They seem to have a clear understanding of how to utilize their players to maximize productivity.

Giants had the golden touch. I bet they  are laughing at their success. 

At some point.... you have to realize.... these are humans... pitching to humans....  hitting against humans....  it's not entirely predictable.  See the 2002 Anaheim Angels.    And many others.  See the 2021 St Louis Cardinals 2 1/2 weeks ago.  

It's kinda beautiful.  It's kinda frustrating.  It is what it is.   Is it the Cardinals front office being vindicated?  Is it the Giants front office making great choices?   Is it a bit of everything?  

As far as the Giants go...  Posey is 34 and having his best year since 2016?  2015?   After sitting out a year.  Sounds 2002 Angelsish to me.   Longoria is having his best offensive season since 2012?   Gausman and Desclafani having their best seasons ever...   after 30.   

They all sound like Washburn (2nd best year of his career),  Fullmer (best year of his career), Appier (last decent year), Kennedy (best year of his career), Salmon (love the dude... underrated, but his best last year), at 33 Anderson (one of his two best years)

Keep being experts, fans.

Edited September 28, 2021 by ScottT

[Angel Oracle]

15 hours ago, mmc said:

Subjected myself to my bimonthly Roger Lodge torture and some guy called in asking about if we’ll keep Raisel Iglesias to which Roger replied that Arte and Perry know he’s the best reliever in the league so there’s no chance that they let him walk and another guy who kept talking about how crappy all of our big free agent position player signings have been and one name he kept mentioning before being told by Roger that he never signed with the Angels was Juan Encarnacion

Rogelio Chavez’s talk show, the Blind Date of sports talk

[AngelsFaninGA]

9 hours ago, ScottT said:

Giants had the golden touch. I bet they  are laughing at their success. 

At some point.... you have to realize.... these are humans... pitching to humans....  hitting against humans....  it's not entirely predictable.  See the 2002 Anaheim Angels.    And many others.  See the 2021 St Louis Cardinals 2 1/2 weeks ago.  

It's kinda beautiful.  It's kinda frustrating.  It is what it is.   Is it the Cardinals front office being vindicated?  Is it the Giants front office making great choices?   Is it a bit of everything?  

As far as the Giants go...  Posey is 34 and having his best year since 2016?  2015?   After sitting out a year.  Sounds 2002 Angelsish to me.   Longoria is having his best offensive season since 2012?   Gausman and Desclafani having their best seasons ever...   after 30.   

They all sound like Washburn (2nd best year of his career),  Fullmer (best year of his career), Appier (last decent year), Kennedy (best year of his career), Salmon (love the dude... underrated, but his best last year), at 33 Anderson (one of his two best years)

Keep being experts, fans.

They've also been the most successful franchise in the league since 2010, so they're clearly doing something right.  And it's really not that surprising that the Cards of all teams are the ones to make a late surge to make the playoffs and not the Reds or Padres, for example. There's definitely something to be said for culture and being a well run organization, even if it can't be quantified. 

[eligrba]

11 hours ago, ScottT said:

Keep being experts, fans.

I don't understand your last parting comment.  Can you clarify?

[Angel Oracle]

John McKay would have said it best if asked about the execution of the franchise.

I’m all for it!

[T.G.]

AO from now on, please preface every statement with...

[mmc]

Asked Blum in his Q&A about Wise remaining the pitching coach and this was his reply:

 

"I think if it is up to Joe Maddon, he will remain as pitching coach. That said, these things aren't always up to the manager and we'll know more probably in the day or two after the season ends. Wise has a long track record in the Angels system, and in my view, has done a pretty good job given the circumstances."

[BTH]

1 hour ago, mmc said:

Asked Blum in his Q&A about Wise remaining the pitching coach and this was his reply:

 

"I think if it is up to Joe Maddon, he will remain as pitching coach. That said, these things aren't always up to the manager and we'll know more probably in the day or two after the season ends. Wise has a long track record in the Angels system, and in my view, has done a pretty good job given the circumstances."

The funny thing is, I could see Wise not remaining as the pitching coach BECAUSE of Joe Maddon getting to choose his pitching coach.

Mike Butcher, who Maddon has worked with in the past here and in TB, is just sitting there in the organization.

Seems to me like it's either Butcher or Wise for pitching coach, with a possibility that they're both on the staff.

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 hour ago, Trendon said:

The funny thing is, I could see Wise not remaining as the pitching coach BECAUSE of Joe Maddon getting to choose his pitching coach.

Mike Butcher, who Maddon has worked with in the past here and in TB, is just sitting there is sleeping like a baby in the organization.

Seems to me like it's either Butcher or Wise for pitching coach, with a possibility that they're both on the staff.

 

[Docwaukee]

2 hours ago, Trendon said:

The funny thing is, I could see Wise not remaining as the pitching coach BECAUSE of Joe Maddon getting to choose his pitching coach.

Mike Butcher, who Maddon has worked with in the past here and in TB, is just sitting there in the organization.

Seems to me like it's either Butcher or Wise for pitching coach, with a possibility that they're both on the staff.

there is no chance Butcher is anywhere near a major league club next year.  

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

there is no chance Butcher is anywhere near a major league club next year.  

?

[Stradling]

Did you get Butcher confused with Callaway?

[Docwaukee]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Did you get Butcher confused with Callaway?

yep.  whoops.  I'm getting old in my old age.