MLB Trade Rumors: Angels need more than just new pitchers to improve their pitching staff

[jsnpritchett]

This article talks about the need for defensive upgrades.  That's obviously been a source of a lot of discussion on this board for most of the season, but it's still a very nice overview of what's gone wrong and some options to help for next year.  Worth a read.

[tdawg87]

Maddon also needs to fuck off.

[Docwaukee]

we need to get @Inside Pitch's take on the defense as I'm not sure he's given his opinion as of yet.  

[failos]

BREAKING NEWS

[jsnpritchett]

6 minutes ago, malsh said:

BREAKING NEWS

Yeah, as I said, the overall topic isn't news here--but I appreciated seeing the statistical breakdown and some thoughts on how to improve.

[Stradling]

Here’s how I improve the defense.  Play Marsh in CF next year.  Trout in LF, Adell in RF.  
Rendon healthy at 3rd, Correa at SS, Fletcher at 2nd, Walsh at 1b, Stassi at Catcher and back up catcher is the best defensive back up on the market.  Pitch to the shift.  Trade Adams, Jackson and whomever else for rotation and pen upgrades.  
I don’t even really want Correa, but he’s good on both sides of the ball. 

[Jason]

7 minutes ago, Hells Rainbow said:

Here’s how I improve the defense.  Play Marsh in CF next year.  Trout in LF, Adell in RF.  
Rendon healthy at 3rd, Correa at SS, Fletcher at 2nd, Walsh at 1b, Stassi at Catcher and back up catcher is the best defensive back up on the market.  Pitch to the shift.  Trade Adams, Jackson and whomever else for rotation and pen upgrades.  
I don’t even really want Correa, but he’s good on both sides of the ball. 

If Marsh and Adell do not make some big strides with their bats then offense is going to be a problem 

[Stradling]

7 minutes ago, Jason said:

If Marsh and Adell do not make some big strides with their bats then offense is going to be a problem 

Not with a healthy Trout, Rendon and Correa. 

[Stradling]

Also this thread is about defense. And how to solve that.

[failos]

34 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

Yeah, as I said, the overall topic isn't news here--but I appreciated seeing the statistical breakdown and some thoughts on how to improve.

Not criticizing you, just found the article’s title funny

[failos]

19 minutes ago, Hells Rainbow said:

Here’s how I improve the defense.  Play Marsh in CF next year.  Trout in LF, Adell in RF.  
Rendon healthy at 3rd, Correa at SS, Fletcher at 2nd, Walsh at 1b, Stassi at Catcher and back up catcher is the best defensive back up on the market.  Pitch to the shift.  Trade Adams, Jackson and whomever else for rotation and pen upgrades.  
I don’t even really want Correa, but he’s good on both sides of the ball. 

Not sure Correa will come here after we booed the shit out of him the other week lol

He seemed really pissed

 

[Stradling]

9 minutes ago, malsh said:

Not sure Correa will come here after we booed the shit out of him the other week lol

He seemed really pissed

 

Then he’s going to re-sign with Houston or retire because Houston gets booed everywhere. 

[failos]

Just now, Hells Rainbow said:

Then he’s going to re-sign with Houston or retire because Houston gets booed everywhere. 

Yeah he gets booed everywhere…he just seemed especially pissed when I was at the game. Both he and Altuve really got the most boos

[Angel Oracle]

Trade for Miguel Rojas, and extend him (increase for 2022) for 2023-24 while Paris and Vera develop.

Rojas is upper echelon defensively at SS, and puts up .750 OPS for good measure.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Angel Oracle

[beatlesrule]

2 hours ago, malsh said:

Yeah he gets booed everywhere…he just seemed especially pissed when I was at the game. Both he and Altuve really got the most boos

That's the game I was at too. The crowd really let both of them have it and rightfully so. I personally am conflicted regarding Correa potentially playing for my favorite team. He was on a team that cheated it's way to a world series and he took part in that cheating. He has, on the other hand, apologized and been vocal about it. I think Houston pays up though and he stays with them if he likes it there so I'm sure I won't have to worry about it. I have to think though that if Correa goes elsewhere, fans won't boo him as much and will slowly stop booing him altogether as time goes on. Staying on the team he cheated with though means the boos will continue.

Does anyone know if ex Astros players on the 2017 team like Springer are still getting booed at every stadium they go to? Are fans of the team the players are on booing them? I don't recall hearing Springer getting booed when we played the Blue Jays. Then again, I just watched those games on TV but I still don't recall it.

[failos]

1 minute ago, beatlesrule said:

That's the game I was at too. The crowd really let both of them have it and rightfully so. I personally am conflicted regarding Correa potentially playing for my favorite team. He was on a team that cheated it's way to a world series and he took part in that cheating. He has, on the other hand, apologized and been vocal about it. I think Houston pays up though and he stays with them if he likes it there so I'm sure I won't have to worry about it. I have to think though that if Correa goes elsewhere, fans won't boo him as much and will slowly stop booing him altogether as time goes on. Staying on the team he cheated with though means the boos will continue.

Does anyone know if ex Astros players on the 2017 team like Springer are still getting booed at every stadium they go to? Are fans of the team the players are on booing them? I don't recall hearing Springer getting booed when we played the Blue Jays. Then again, I just watched those games on TV but I still don't recall it.

Yeah I watched the Blue Jays game, too. Springer was booed hard as well—even by Blue Jays fans lol

[beatlesrule]

1 minute ago, malsh said:

Yeah I watched the Blue Jays game, too. Springer was booed hard as well—even by Blue Jays fans lol

I just found this

https://fansided.com/2021/06/29/george-springer-heckled-sign-stealing-scandal-blue-jays-home-game-video/

I mean, it was one vocal guy and not sure if he was a Seattle fan or not but I still think over time, Springer and other ex Astros won't get booed nearly as much as guys that stay on the Astros. I could be wrong of course but it's hard to believe that Springer gets booed his entire contract.

[m0nkey]

3 hours ago, Hells Rainbow said:

back up catcher is the best defensive back up on the market. 

[Stradling]

I’d be very surprised if Houston re-signs Correa.  They offered him something like 6 years and $120 million to keep him which is basically an insult considering what he will actually get paid which is much closer to Lindor money 

[AngelsFaninGA]

Correa would immediately hit .220 and miss half of every season if we signed him. Absolutely not. 

At some point the offense needs to stand on its own and perform. Can't keep throwing money at the problem. 

[T.G.]

I don’t want that f’ing Cheater on the Angels. F that.

[tdawg87]

I said Maddon because there's a serious issue regarding the pitch location and the shifts this team utilizes. I'll let @Inside Pitch explain it better.

Maybe it's not Maddon, but this team is pitching against their shifts. Someone is calling for that and I doubt it's Suzuki/Stassi.

[tdawg87]

If you can't utilize your shifts properly, your defense is going to suffer.

[tdawg87]

And so will the pitching. 

It's a legitimate issue.

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, tdawg87 said:

I said Maddon because there's a serious issue regarding the pitch location and the shifts this team utilizes. I'll let @Inside Pitch explain it better.

Maybe it's not Maddon, but this team is pitching against their shifts. Someone is calling for that and I doubt it's Suzuki/Stassi.

In short.  It's not as simple as just pitching away, although they do that a lot.  Shifting isn't the isn't the issue, the timing of those shifts and the things they have done on the mound along with those shifts is... @Blarg looked at it for a while and I think he still hates me as a result.

If you take the time to watch games while at the same time having the pages for situational defense and hitter tendencies at baseball savant up on your screens you'll see how often the Angels shift into a hitter's strengths or double down and pitch to what he does well.  The situation was so frustrating I stopped doing it for a long, long time.  I chose to tell myself that they had better info and that rather than whine about it I should maybe trust the process. Well, defense is still awful..  Two weeks ago when I started tracking it again it was even worse, so.. No more.  But I've banging on the defense is shit drum a long time.  I really don't know who to blame  but given how Maddon was just quoted as saying the offensive problems are because of situations that are essentially the same as they were when things were going well, I'm actually starting to believe he isn't looking at the data and just trusting his big brain when he IS involved.

Anyway, I don't know who runs that stuff, but I do hope that whoever coordinates it gets everyone on the same page next year because otherwise it will be more of the same and we will get another year of "it's just bad luck" quotes.  Also Minasian better not spent the entire winter talking up the importance of defense then repeat the Suzuki and Fowler comedy.  I'm not down on the guy at all but JD lost me when he repeatedly said one thing and did another.  I'm hoping Minasian takes less input from the dugout this winter because a lot of the stuff they were yammering about "pitchers with different looks are soo awesome" and the sort was the stuff Maddon was into.   Also, if they start adding LHRPs with awful L/R splits ...  lord help us.  The 3 out minimum rule isn't going away and yet it was used as an excuse over and over again this season.