MLB proposes a $100 million cap floor, lowering luxury tax threshold to $180 and increasing tax %

[Stradling]

Also comparing the best in the world at what you do with average salaries is silly. 

[Blarg]

It's just a sport. They throw a ball and run around bases. They are the best at irrelevant work product. But seriously, there really needs to be a cap on how much players are paid. Their current salaries for the top players is grossly out of line with what is responsible fiscal management. 

You guys bitch about how Hamilton, Pujols and Upton have ruined the Angels ability to build a complete team but are advocating the system that creates those problems. It is as dumb as Manfred's proposal because it doesn't address any root cause for competitive imbalance. 

[Robrock30]

I see this as benefitting Owners not Players as it deters the Large Market teams from spending over $ 180 MM.  As correctly stated above Tampa and Oakland do just fine as is.  What is the future of qualifying offers and revenue sharing?

[Stradling]

7 minutes ago, Blarg said:

It's just a sport. They throw a ball and run around bases. They are the best at irrelevant work product. But seriously, there really needs to be a cap on how much players are paid. Their current salaries for the top players is grossly out of line with what is responsible fiscal management. 

You guys bitch about how Hamilton, Pujols and Upton have ruined the Angels ability to build a complete team but are advocating the system that creates those problems. It is as dumb as Manfred's proposal because it doesn't address any root cause for competitive imbalance. 

I never bitch about how much players get paid.  Also most of us create irrelevant work.  They provide entertainment, you do the same, I lead for a company where the consumer could make a similar product themselves.
As for whether this solves the competitive imbalance, probably not, but it could certainly help.  You also know the players union will never agree to capping a players salary.  

[Stradling]

11 minutes ago, Robrock30 said:

I see this as benefitting Owners not Players as it deters the Large Market teams from spending over $ 180 MM.  As correctly stated above Tampa and Oakland do just fine as is.  What is the future of qualifying offers and revenue sharing?

I personally have a real issue with teams receiving revenue sharing and spending very little on their payroll.  

[T.G.]

4 minutes ago, Hells Rainbow said:

 I lead for a company where the consumer could make a similar product themselves and can make much better french fries than the company I work for.

 

 

Edited August 19, 2021 by True Grich

[Robrock30]

42 minutes ago, Hells Rainbow said:

I personally have a real issue with teams receiving revenue sharing and spending very little on their payroll.  

True.  Pittsburgh Pirates pocket the revenue sharing and make no attempt to field a quality product churning players other teams castoff and trading off their expensive players.  

[stormngt]

2 hours ago, Blarg said:

There are no underpaid major leagues players. The median income for an individual in America is $31k. For households its close to $70k. The major league minimum is $570k, that is nearly 20 times what the average American worker makes. 

Manfred is attacking the wrong problem. 

If you compare the market value of a professional athlete with that of unskilled labor then I agree with you.

However, its absurd to suggest that a mlb player who os one of 40 people that brings in billions of revenue with a person who flips burgers.

BTW the average salary is just under 60K

https://policyadvice.net/insurance/insights/average-american-income/

https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2020/demo/p60-270.html

I do not know how Google came up with 31k.

[stormngt]

2 hours ago, Blarg said:

It's just a sport. They throw a ball and run around bases. They are the best at irrelevant work product. But seriously, there really needs to be a cap on how much players are paid. Their current salaries for the top players is grossly out of line with what is responsible fiscal management. 

You guys bitch about how Hamilton, Pujols and Upton have ruined the Angels ability to build a complete team but are advocating the system that creates those problems. It is as dumb as Manfred's proposal because it doesn't address any root cause for competitive imbalance. 

The market value if labor is in direct relations to the profit margin of the industry they work in.  Based on your logic every athlete should be playing for minimum wage (7.00 an hour) despite how much money the owners make

Edited August 19, 2021 by stormngt

[ukyah]

29 minutes ago, stormngt said:

The market value if labor is in direct relations to the profit margin of the industry they work in.  Based on your logic every athlete should be playing for minimum wage (7.00 an hour) despite how much money the owners make

you do a disservice to your argument by exaggerating his position. the straw man devalues your position, which i agree with, rather than his.

he's going to come back and say, "when did i say they should make minimum wage? etc." and he's going to be right.

i think there is some merit to his argument, but it isn't where he's choosing to focus.

i have a problem with the economics of the sport, where it costs literally several hundreds of dollars to take a family to a game, and exorbitant player salaries are a contributing factor to that. however, the entire argument is moot because neither the owners, nor the players give a shit what we think about costs. they wonder why interest dwindles in the sport, then point the needle towards smaller contributing factors, rather than the largest factor, which is accessibility, both at the park and on tv with the archaic black out rules, etc.

[stormngt]

13 minutes ago, ukyah said:

you do a disservice to your argument by exaggerating his position. the straw man devalues your position, which i agree with, rather than his.

he's going to come back and say, "when did i say they should make minimum wage? etc." and he's going to be right.

i think there is some merit to his argument, but it isn't where he's choosing to focus.

i have a problem with the economics of the sport, where it costs literally several hundreds of dollars to take a family to a game, and exorbitant player salaries are a contributing factor to that. however, the entire argument is moot because neither the owners, nor the players give a shit what we think about costs. they wonder why interest dwindles in the sport, then point the needle towards smaller contributing factors, rather than the largest factor, which is accessibility, both at the park and on tv with the archaic black out rules, etc.

Forgive me for not being sympathetic to income disparities argument.   

Owners charge the amount for tickets and merchandise at the max price that people are willing to pay.

The players and owners owe you nothing more than the product they are selling.

I made the minimum wage argument because Blarq mocked the players as being in a profession that brings little utility.  I think his term is "they just run around bases".

Personally I think the top wages are top high.  I think it's the players who live in squalor while in the minors  for years who make the mlb get their compensation with a 500k+ minimum.  However the owners control them for six years and yet average player only plays 2.7 years.  That doesn't even get you to arbitration. 

The top players are over paid.  The average player is underpaid.   That is why I like the floor.

[Revad]

4 hours ago, Blarg said:

There are no underpaid major leagues players. The median income for an individual in America is $31k. For households its close to $70k. The major league minimum is $570k, that is nearly 20 times what the average American worker makes. 

Manfred is attacking the wrong problem. 

True from a fan perspective, I wouldn’t mind that salary for a year.  But I imagine a very good player entering his prime and under team control or arbitration.  

[ScruffytheJanitor]

The only way this gets accepted is if ratings for sports -- which have been trending downward for a couple of years -- continue to go down. If ad revenue goes down, players MIGHT be pressured into taking more security (higher floor) over high-end earning potential. Otherwise -- lowering the the tax threshold is mega dumb. 

[Blarg]

3 hours ago, ukyah said:

you do a disservice to your argument by exaggerating his position. the straw man devalues your position, which i agree with, rather than his.

he's going to come back and say, "when did i say they should make minimum wage? etc." and he's going to be right.

i think there is some merit to his argument, but it isn't where he's choosing to focus.

i have a problem with the economics of the sport, where it costs literally several hundreds of dollars to take a family to a game, and exorbitant player salaries are a contributing factor to that. however, the entire argument is moot because neither the owners, nor the players give a shit what we think about costs. they wonder why interest dwindles in the sport, then point the needle towards smaller contributing factors, rather than the largest factor, which is accessibility, both at the park and on tv with the archaic black out rules, etc.

Your last paragraph is the point. It is what the comissioner, owners and players fail to recognize. Instead they focus on how much revenue they can make on all sides instead of the long term health of the sport. This is why I say Manfred is fighting the wrong battle. 

[ukyah]

3 hours ago, stormngt said:

Forgive me for not being sympathetic to income disparities argument.   

Owners charge the amount for tickets and merchandise at the max price that people are willing to pay.

The players and owners owe you nothing more than the product they are selling.

I made the minimum wage argument because Blarq mocked the players as being in a profession that brings little utility.  I think his term is "they just run around bases".

Personally I think the top wages are top high.  I think it's the players who live in squalor while in the minors  for years who make the mlb get their compensation with a 500k+ minimum.  However the owners control them for six years and yet average player only plays 2.7 years.  That doesn't even get you to arbitration. 

The top players are over paid.  The average player is underpaid.   That is why I like the floor.

you keep putting words in other people's mouths as a counterargument. i didn't say they owe me anything. i said, they wonder why interest in the sport is declining in the age groups that matter most and i pointed to one of the reasons is fan affordability. they make it difficult to attend a game for your average family, but they also make it difficult to watch a game at home. mlb is archaic in their approach, and it always has been in my lifetime.

[stormngt]

20 hours ago, ukyah said:

you keep putting words in other people's mouths as a counterargument. i didn't say they owe me anything. i said, they wonder why interest in the sport is declining in the age groups that matter most and i pointed to one of the reasons is fan affordability. they make it difficult to attend a game for your average family, but they also make it difficult to watch a game at home. mlb is archaic in their approach, and it always has been in my lifetime.

You were not complaining about the cost of the games?

Edited August 20, 2021 by stormngt

[ukyah]

35 minutes ago, stormngt said:

You were not complaining about the cost of the games?

i didn't say they owed me anything, which is a completely different point. 

i'm talking about focus on a multiheaded problem.

[stormngt]

51 minutes ago, ukyah said:

i didn't say they owed me anything, which is a completely different point. 

i'm talking about focus on a multiheaded problem.

I often say "perceptions are more important than reality".

The conversation with context of:  players over paid, cost of games top expensive, and "however, the entire argument is moot because neither the owners, nor the players give a shit what we think about costs. they wonder why interest dwindles in the sport"

led me to perceive erroneously.   My apologies