OK Perry, time to sell

[totdprods]

4 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

I think too that Marsh being called up is a desperation move to stay in the race. They would prefer not to do it, but knew rolling out infielders to play the outfield for an extended period was stupid.

I also imagine they accepted the rookie bat for the exchange of having a plus glove in CF to help the pitching

It probably serves multiple purposes. Calling him up also helps give off a perception the Angels feel he's MLB-ready and healthy should they discuss him in deals. Doesn't mean they intend on dealing him, but could give him a boost in value or confidence in his health. Could also signal they're willing to listen on Adell.

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, Redondo said:

Trade all one year deals 

Play the kids

Probably get the same results and we get a look at the young guys in MLB situations 

Drafting 20 pitchers is rebuild mode

Been saying this for weeks regardless of their position in the standings. I personally believe they can be better by selling off and calling guys up.  Every pitcher in the system above A ball with two pitches and the ability to make his own outs is a potential RP.

I'd rather lose with Wantz than with Cishek.

[Torridd]

44 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

It's time for both he and Adell to be up here and even if he gets sent down, he should still be a September call up. Just have a strange feeling that there will be some significant movement in the outfield coming soon. Not of the send down/call up area either.

If Marsh can prove he's the real deal, I think Upton will be traded.

[totdprods]

Just now, Torridd said:

If Marsh can prove he's the real deal, I think Upton will be traded.

NTC and Upton seems like he wants to be here, I can't see it happening unless there's a contender that really, really wants him and Upton likes being wanted and sees a chance for a ring.

[jsnpritchett]

4 minutes ago, totdprods said:

NTC and Upton seems like he wants to be here, I can't see it happening unless there's a contender that really, really wants him and Upton likes being wanted and sees a chance for a ring.

...and the Angels agree to pay about $20M of his salary. 

[angelsnationtalk]

7 minutes ago, totdprods said:

NTC and Upton seems like he wants to be here, I can't see it happening unless there's a contender that really, really wants him and Upton likes being wanted and sees a chance for a ring.

Agree.... But i will say now, we all thought the same thing with Pujols. So who knows at this point. 

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

1 minute ago, angelsnationtalk said:

Agree.... But i will say now, we all thought the same thing with Pujols. So who knows at this point. 

The Dodgers are paying Pujols ~$550,000 while the Angels are still paying him almost $30M.  If the Angels were to cut Upton or pay 75%+ of the $28M he owed next year I'm sure he'd have quite a bit of interest.

[totdprods]

5 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

Agree.... But i will say now, we all thought the same thing with Pujols. So who knows at this point. 

Big difference in releasing someone who isn't producing and forcing someone to agree to a trade when they don't have to - and they're producing.

[GrittyVeterans]

We have so much money tied up in Upton/Rendon/Trout next year that it’s going to be tough to build the pitching we need. 
 

The bottom line is you have to sell whatever you can and hope the arms you get in return can contribute at some point next season. Also at some point we have to say fuck everything else and just go after flame throwers in the off-season. Spend the entire budget on bullpen

Were stuck in purgatory right now. We’ve gone heavy drafting pitching, great. We’re making the right move of not converting them to relievers until they show us they need to be. But that’s also the problem. Most of them are still so early in their development that we can’t find a role for them.

Honestly, it would be great if we had a few guys who had already flamed out as starters who were ready to be relievers from day 1 next year. I’m just not seeing it though yet. A guy like C-Rod is the epitome of what I’m talking about. You want him to be a starter or at least a multi-inning guy so you send him down and let him develop properly. But there’s zero doubt that right now the team would benefit from him being the 8th inning guy

[tdawg87]

It's going to be the same shit next year. Arte will put a cap on the payroll, Minasian will be forced to build a "winner" with about $30 million, we'll go in to 2022 with hope that everything can go our way, then AJ will make this thread again.

It's fucking groundhog day with this shit organization and I'm done with it.

Edited July 20, 2021 by tdawg87

[Jeff Fletcher]

2 hours ago, totdprods said:

Remember, you also almost certainly get a QO pick in that scenario too, or an extension.

Players who are traded aren’t eligible for QO’s

[totdprods]

12 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Players who are traded aren’t eligible for QO’s

That only applies for players who are FA this year, correct? Someone like Berrios it wouldn't.

I can't really see any rental pitcher who would be worth that haul, short of Scherzer, who would only be traded if an extension was agreed too apparently.

Edited July 20, 2021 by totdprods

[jsnpritchett]

1 minute ago, totdprods said:

That only applies for players who are FA this year, correct? Someone like Berrios it wouldn't.

Correct.

[Angelsjunky]

2 hours ago, Torridd said:

I'd like to keep Raisel. Everyone else on your list can go.

 

2 hours ago, Jason said:

If a team is willing to overpay for Raisel then I think it would be wise to listen to offers. 

What Jason said. I'd go further and say, if a team is willing to offer a good prospect, FV 55 or better, you take that trade. 

Don't forget, Raisel is a free agent and, like 98% of free agents, will follow the money. Maybe that's the Angels, but I'd rather have a good prospect and a chance at Raisel, then just a chance a Raisel and no prospect.

A 55 FV prospect projects to be an above average major leaguer, meaning a player who will be affordable for 6 years. 55 FV prospects are generally either high upside low level prospects, or good porspects on the cusp of being ready. And it may be that Perry can get more, maybe a 55 FV and a 45 FV, or two 50 FV guys. We've seen really nice packages for elite, or even "second tier elite" closers like Raisel. He's exactly the type of player that contenders wanting an edge will pay well for.

2 hours ago, JustATroutFan said:

It just seems like Trout is destined to be this generation's Ted Williams or Griffey Jr. The Red Sox wasted most of Williams' great seasons by not even qualifying for the postseason but the Mariners did the same thing during Griffey's prime, failing to build a solid starting pitching staff. Yes, the Big Unit was special when he took the mound but that was just one arm that the Mariners fully developed. People are saying that the Angela are wasting Trout's greatness for years now and they're not wrong. But in the case if the Angels win the World Series and Trout puts up something like a .330/.450/.600 slash line that same postseason, how much would if affect Trout's legacy? Would anyone ever have the guts to say that Trout's clutch or not? There was an article that I think you talked about a few months back on whether Trout would want Reggie's career over his because of World Series rings. I don't know Trout personally but if he rather have his career than Reggie's, I wouldn't be mad about it. Once Trout hangs up his cleats, he'll have to focus on his life, which includes his family. Winning World Series won't get a player big money. Playing like a superstar will get you a lot of money. 

Or Bonds. Trout is far from done, though - he's signed for nine more years after this one. Maybe the Angels don't win while he's in his prime (say, the next three years), but I'm not ready to worry about the next nine. Yet.

1 hour ago, angelsnationtalk said:

As much as i'd love for the Angels to sell, it won't happen. 

They won't dare become a selling team with Mike Trout in his prime. Unfortunately, they don't have the balls to tell him we're going to tank for one more year, sell off what we can to get some solid pitching, and flip this B**** around for next season. 

The Angels will remain stuck in the middle..... again. They will trade guys on expiring contracts but that's about it..... Because they think that Trout and Upton coming back will send them to the moon (forgetting about pitching).

The only thing that is raising my eyebrows is the Marsh call up. Trout and Upton are nearing returns, Eaton just signed and Lagares and Ward are sitting there. The hell happens with Adell at this point. 

But they wouldn't be tanking for one more year, if you mean 2022. Perry can be clear to Trout and the other guys that he'd be essentially reducing a 15% chance of the playoffs this year to 10%, while increasing next year's chances.

As for Marsh, he's looked good so far. Some smart hitting last night. Looks like a major leaguer. There will be bumps, but consider whose playing time he'll take: not Upton's, but Eaton, Ward, and Lagares.

59 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Reference the first part. Im not at all suggesting trout as an elite player is done. Im saying that we should stop trying to build around him, and instead build around Ohtani (not because Ohtani is better, I mean it more as Ohtani representing the next core).

Like I said, if Trout won a ring this year, or 5 from now, its the same thing. But the 3-5 from now is a lot more realistic than right now.

As for the second part, I agree fully.

If the Angels had 2 more reliable pen arms this year, this team would be 10 games over .500 right now (rouvhly). Even with the injuries 

Got it, and agreed on Ohtani. That means the Angels really want to be a winning team either this year or next. Given the slim chances on this year, I'd do whatever it takes to build a really good team for next year.

49 minutes ago, totdprods said:

It probably serves multiple purposes. Calling him up also helps give off a perception the Angels feel he's MLB-ready and healthy should they discuss him in deals. Doesn't mean they intend on dealing him, but could give him a boost in value or confidence in his health. Could also signal they're willing to listen on Adell.

Or it could also mean that they think he's ready to help the big league club right now. I've been saying since before the year started, that I think Marsh is (or was) very close, closer than a lot of folks think. He has been ahead of Adell on the depth chart since day 1 of this year, it is just that he hasn't stayed healthy long enough. 

That said, even i was a bit surprised that they called him up now. I was expecting by mid-August, though, and hoping for after the trade deadline. But I think he's here to stay, unless he really struggles, but even then they'll give him a chance to find his sea-legs. I just don't think the alternatives are significantly better, if better at all. Eaton has looked pretty good, but his performance over the last two seasons suggest that it might just be small sample size. 

So I'm taking Maddon's word on this. Inspirational, sure, but I think he is dead serious: If Marsh holds his own--say, produces a 100 wRC+ or better, with solid defense--then I don't think he'll be sent down, not for Eaton/Ward/Lagares.

I don't see Adell being called up unless Upton or Trout go down with injury again, at least not until the AAA season ends, with two weeks left. I think they'll bring him up then, regardless.

[Dtwncbad]

We all heard that Berrios comments that seem like he is committed to getting to free agency.

But didn’t I also read that he also said he would listen to an extension offer from the Twins (presumably if the extension offer was comparable to what he thought he would command on the open market)?

[totdprods]

4 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

We all heard that Berrios comments that seem like he is committed to getting to free agency.

But didn’t I also read that he also said he would listen to an extension offer from the Twins (presumably if the extension offer was comparable to what he thought he would command on the open market)?

If he goes to FA, fine. The Angels get two potential playoff runs with him and a QO. You still get a good shot at re-signing him too. Having played for a team has to give you some sort of advantage over others in negotiations.

Edited July 20, 2021 by totdprods

[jsnpritchett]

1 minute ago, Dtwncbad said:

We all heard that Berrios comments that seem like he is committed to getting to free agency.

But didn’t I also read that he also said he would listen to an extension offer from the Twins (presumably if the extension offer was comparable to what he thought he would command on the open market)?

Yes.  He's basically saying he's not going to take a discount to do an extension now.  If he gets offered whatever he perceives market value to be, he'd at least consider an extension.

[Jason]

22 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

It's going to be the same shit next year. Arte will put a cap on the payroll, Minasian will be forced to build a "winner" with about $30 million, we'll go in to 2022 with hope that everything can go our way, then AJ will make this thread again.

It's fucking groundhog day with this shit organization and I'm done with it.

I think you may be jaded 

[ettin]

50 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Been saying this for weeks regardless of their position in the standings. I personally believe they can be better by selling off and calling guys up.  Every pitcher in the system above A ball with two pitches and the ability to make his own outs is a potential RP.

I'd rather lose with Wantz than with Cishek.

How does it feel to Wantz?

[Junkballer]

I'd prefer for them to buy and sell selectively to give them a chance to make a push for the playoffs.  If it doesn't work out so be it.  I want to see these guys go for it but they need some bullpen help.  Obviously this opinion  isn't the optimal asset management view, but I don't see the big upside in the trade pieces we have outside of R Iglesias.  Nothing that will dramatically improve their chances next year.  Trade the other Iglesias and select prospects for bullpen arms.  Outfield is set with the return of Trout and Upton.  Infield is set with the return of Rendon and the swap of Iglesias for Renfigo.  Catcher is the Tale of Two City's, it was the best of times and the worst of times.  Rotation is mediocre but passable.  Get them some bullpen help and see how it plays out.  I believe they can close strong given a little bit of bullpen help.  As a fan, I'll feel a hell of a lot better even if they come up short, than any kind of enjoyment I'll get out of the micro improvements of selling as much as they can and giving up on the season in mid July.

[Don]

29 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

It's going to be the same shit next year. Arte will put a cap on the payroll, Minasian will be forced to build a "winner" with about $30 million, we'll go in to 2022 with hope that everything can go our way, then AJ will make this thread again.

It's fucking groundhog day with this shit organization and I'm done with it.

My favorite part is always when we sign three SPs that went 5-9 with a 5.20 ERA and strained a "insert non-arm body part here", then spend three months convincing ourselves that they can be good again because they had a really good year once three years ago. It's basically an offseason tradition at this point. 

[Angels Fan Forever]

I think Minasian is nothing more than Fat Eppler. 

[UndertheHalo]

7 minutes ago, Angels Fan Forever said:

I think Minasian is nothing more than Fat Eppler. 

You’ve made him endearing.  

[Dtwncbad]

16 minutes ago, Angels Fan Forever said:

I think Minasian is nothing more than Fat Eppler. 

I now feel vindicated calling Eppler nothing more than a skinny Minasian.

[tdawg87]

17 minutes ago, Angels Fan Forever said:

I think Minasian is nothing more than Fat Eppler. 

It's not Minasian.