Trumped

[RallyMo]

15 minutes ago, Lhalo said:

Seal the borders and cutoff aid. Use the army and the national guard. Allow deadly force.

 

That's a bit drastic.

[UndertheHalo]

9 minutes ago, Geoff said:

 

Not really.  I think that would fall into the outrage camp.

 

 

Ok, but do you think that making an equivalence out of it (what the president is doing) is a good way to frame this ? 

Edited October 22, 2018 by UndertheHalo

[Spirit]

9 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Ok, but do you think that making an equivalence out of it is a good way to frame this ? 

 

Do I think that pointing out that both sides are selling fear and outrage is bad?  No. 

If you're a lib, you're probably bought into and agree with the what the Dems are selling.  If you're a con, you're probably bought into and agree with what the GOP is selling.  The trick for both sides will be, who can motivate their base enough with their fear and outrage topics de jour  to get off them off their couches to go vote.

 

 

[UndertheHalo]

19 minutes ago, Geoff said:

 

Do I think that pointing out that both sides are selling fear and outrage is bad?  No. 

If you're a lib, you're probably bought into and agree with the what the Dems are selling.  If you're a con, you're probably bought into and agree with what the GOP is selling.  The trick for both sides will be, who can motivate their base enough with their fear and outrage topics de jour  to get off them off their couches to go vote.

 

 

Not disagreeing with any of this.  What I’m wondering about is whether there’s a problem with what Trump is saying.  Alleging voter fraud for example.  Lies.  And something that is actually happening like voter suppression.  

And then, framing these as equivalent normal political activity.  I think this is a problematic way to view this. 

Edited October 22, 2018 by UndertheHalo

[Spirit]

27 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Not disagreeing with any of this.  What I’m wondering about is whether there’s a problem with what Trump is saying.  Alleging voter fraud for example.  Lies.  And something that is actually happening like voter suppression.  

And then, framing these as equivalent normal political activity.  I think this is a problematic way to view this. 

 

If you isolate the whole of what is being said on both sides to just these two issues, then yes I could see where you would be challenged to find equivalency. 

 

[Taylor]

2 hours ago, RallyMo said:

All of this is being done with the intent of driving his base to the polls. 

It's crazy how sheep-like the majority of Americans are.

[Taylor]

1 hour ago, Lhalo said:

Seal the borders and cutoff aid. Use the army and the national guard. Allow deadly force.

lol

I heard that Hitler, Dustin Pedroia, and Doug Eddings are also on this Caravan of Villains.

[Blarg]

2 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

Just like in the Middle East.  A lot of central americas problems can be tied to the miserably failed policies of the United States in those countries.  Typically, policies that destroyed what those people willed for themselves. 

The chickens always come home to roost. 

These are failed countries all on their own merit. Whatever the US does really doesn't change how internally the corruption and societal imbalance makes these such unstable hellholes for the population. It's really popular to blame the US but simply these dictatorships and failed socialist nation's along with Mexico's inability to move one step forward to purge their cartels, is why they are a mess. 

[UndertheHalo]

5 minutes ago, Taylor said:

lol

I heard that Hitler, Dustin Pedroia, and Doug Eddings are also on this Caravan of Villains.

Don’t forget about Jonathan Papelbon and Chairman Mao. 

[Blarg]

7 minutes ago, Taylor said:

lol

I heard that Hitler, Dustin Pedroia, and Doug Eddings are also on this Caravan of Villains.

Then deadly force is appropriate.

[Amazing Larry]

1 hour ago, RallyMo said:

That's a bit drastic.

Shoot the women and children first to send a message.

[mtangelsfan]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-says-u-exit-landmark-nuclear-arms-pact-081505851.html

Great, start up the cold war.

[RallyMo]

3 minutes ago, Lhalo said:

Shoot the women and children first to send a message.

Lhalscuf

[Kevin]

2 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-says-u-exit-landmark-nuclear-arms-pact-081505851.html

Great, start up the cold war.

Bolton.

[UndertheHalo]

10 minutes ago, Blarg said:

These are failed countries all on their own merit. Whatever the US does really doesn't change how internally the corruption and societal imbalance makes these such unstable hellholes for the population. It's really popular to blame the US but simply these dictatorships and failed socialist nation's along with Mexico's inability to move one step forward to purge their cartels, is why they are a mess. 

This is a hopelessly inadequate way of viewing the real activities that the US has engaged in.  How do you figure a bunch of the dictators in South America came to power ? Operation Condor comes to mind.  The support for military juntas and dictators in Central America. Literally over throwing democratically elected leaders.  You’re wrong here Blarg.  The United States subversive operations contributed greatly to the massive instability of the region. 

Edited October 22, 2018 by UndertheHalo

[UndertheHalo]

7 minutes ago, Lhalo said:

Shoot the women and children first to send a message.

Hey, it’s horrifying.  But at least it’s a plan that will work. (Probably) more then the other stupid shit anyway. 

Edited October 22, 2018 by UndertheHalo

[mtangelsfan]

Just now, UndertheHalo said:

This is a hopelessly inadequate way of viewing the real activities that the US has engaged in.  How do you figure a bunch of the dictators in South America came to power. Operation Condor comes to mind.  The support for military juntas and dictators in Central America. Literally over throwing democratically elected leaders.  You’re wrong here Blarg. 

I get that our intervention has been a negative sum, but it is just blame city to say that the U.S. is to blame for all of this.  People are still responsible for themselves, as are countries.

[Amazing Larry]

Just trollin' around. But on a serious note, I think we should investigate who is funding this wave of immigrants.

[Blarg]

3 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

This is a hopelessly inadequate way of viewing the real activities that the US has engaged in.  How do you figure a bunch of the dictators in South America came to power ? Operation Condor comes to mind.  The support for military juntas and dictators in Central America. Literally over throwing democratically elected leaders.  You’re wrong here Blarg.  The United States subversive operations contributed greatly to the massive instability of the region. 

The same 240 years as the US had to get their collective shit together and they are still third world countries with failed economies and a complete lack of social justice. This is not our countries fault. But keep playing the lib bot game of spewing the same excuses. 

[UndertheHalo]

5 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

I get that our intervention has been a negative sum, but it is just blame city to say that the U.S. is to blame for all of this.  People are still responsible for themselves, as are countries.? 

The United States can, does and has destroyed counties at will.  The great crime of the people’s of Central America is that they largely rejected governments that would have bent over for America. The subterfuge followed.  Unfortunate for them. 

Edited October 22, 2018 by UndertheHalo

[Thomas]

10 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-says-u-exit-landmark-nuclear-arms-pact-081505851.html

Great, start up the cold war.

Guess someone wants people to think that they aren't BFFs with Russia.

[UndertheHalo]

2 minutes ago, Blarg said:

The same 240 years as the US had to get their collective shit together and they are still third world countries with failed economies and a complete lack of social justice. This is not our countries fault. But keep playing the lib bot game of spewing the same excuses. 

Ya and you keep white washing history so that it’s more palatable for you. 

Social justice and America.  Lol are you fu*cking high ?

Edited October 22, 2018 by UndertheHalo

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

When the US intervenes they eventually get criticized because of the way a situation turns out.  When they don't intervene they eventually get criticized because of the way a situation turns out.  How many of the people criticizing the US for what it's done in other countries also criticize some of Trumps policies and moves for being isolationist?  Damned if you do, damned if you don't.   

[mtangelsfan]

9 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

The United States can, does and has destroyed counties at will.  The great crime of the people’s of Central America is that they largely rejected governments that would have bent over for America. The subterfuge followed.  Unfortunate for them. 

It's easy to point fingers.  Viet Nam is thriving after a century of meddling from the west.  Iran has been on its own since the 80's, they still suck.  

Yeah, we screwed up a whole lot of stuff and we will keep on doing so until we stop voting R/D but there has to be personal or national accountability.

[UndertheHalo]

I’m not arguing about whether the US should do things to maintain its global hegemony.  That’s another debate and a complicated one. 

I’m just saying.  The things the US does and has done, to maintain hegemony has nation moving effects and consequences.  There are losers and people who suffer.  For typical schmucks like us.  Those results pretty clearly fall into the grossly unethical category.  There’s  no point in pretending that it’s less then what it is.  Or worse, that doesn’t happen at all.  The world is what it is.  Fortunately for us.  We’re lucky enough to not be on the other end of what the US does.  It’s not a bad thing to recognize it tho, and to appreciate that it’s bad for those people. 

Edited October 22, 2018 by UndertheHalo