Trumped

[Make Angels Great Again]

5 minutes ago, arch stanton said:

 So why hasn’t it been stopped? Because those in position to stop it not only aren’t affected negatively by it but they actually profit from it. Stop allowing anyone from profiting from illegal immigration and illegal immigration will stop 

 

It's more than profit. It's votes. How do you suggest regular citizens fight against that? I would think try to get people elected that want to do something about it.

[Adam]

1 minute ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

 

Of course businesses will benefit from cheap labor. I don't think that's good for the citizens as a whole.

And hell god damn yes there is a negative. People coming without being vetted is horrible! Would you let anyone just walk into your house without a care in the world?

I didn't say there wasn't a negative. However, there are many positives. I'm curious if the positives outweigh the negatives. 

[Adam]

What's wrong with cheap labor?

[Adam]

3 minutes ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

Would you let anyone just walk into your house without a care in the world?

Would you tell anyone from say Venezuela to go home and die without a care in the world?

[Make Angels Great Again]

1 minute ago, Adam said:

I didn't say there wasn't a negative. However, there are many positives. I'm curious if the positives outweigh the negatives. 

 

The security of a nations citizens is paramount.

People coming in need to be checked, period.

[Make Angels Great Again]

2 minutes ago, Adam said:

What's wrong with cheap labor?

 

Well nothing in theory, it's useful for the one providing said labor to develop skills.

BUT, those opportunities should be going to legal citizens. Not people who cut the line.

[Adam]

Just now, Make Angels Great Again said:

 

The security of a nations citizens is paramount.

 

I don't think I've ever disagreed with a statement more than I disagree with this one. 

[mtangelsfan]

6 minutes ago, Adam said:

What's wrong with cheap labor?

It keeps all other wages down.  That isn't good.

[Make Angels Great Again]

2 minutes ago, Adam said:

I don't think I've ever disagreed with a statement more than I disagree with this one. 

 

Maybe I worded it poorly. The Government has an obligation to protect its citizens right to life from external forces. It's literally thought to be one of, if not its only primary purpose.

Better?

[Adam]

Much, thanks. 

[Adam]

Just now, mtangelsfan said:

It keeps all other wages down.  That isn't good.

Fair. There's definitely a tipping point when the marketplace of cheap labor gets too big. I don't know what that point is though. I think it serves a great economic purpose in theory though, provided services performed cheaply are done in place of 0-cost labor rather than in place of the true market for said services. For example I pay to have my house cleaned and gardening done twice a month. It's cheap. I wouldn't pay a legit business to do these things because the regulatory environment, State requirements would price me out and I'd do those things myself. It also allows the people who do those services for me to pay for housing, food, goods, etc..

[arch stanton]

3 minutes ago, Adam said:

Fair. There's definitely a tipping point when the marketplace of cheap labor gets too big. I don't know what that point is though. I think it serves a great economic purpose in theory though, provided services performed cheaply are done in place of 0-cost labor rather than in place of the true market for said services. For example I pay to have my house cleaned and gardening done twice a month. It's cheap. I wouldn't pay a legit business to do these things because the regulatory environment, State requirements would price me out and I'd do those things myself. It also allows the people who do those services for me to pay for housing, food, goods, etc..

And you get this cheap domestic labor by creating a second class of people, whether citizens or non. American laws make it impossible to have a second class of citizens or even legal aliens so you need illegals 

[Adam]

13 minutes ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

 

Maybe I worded it poorly. The Government has an obligation to protect its citizens right to life from external forces. It's literally thought to be one of, if not its only primary purpose.

Better?

I'm really just playing Devil's advocate here, dude. I think the metrics around this are incredibly complex. There is a taxpayer cost to every government service. We could eliminate a lot of murders, a lot of car deaths, a lot of thefts by increasing the size of scope of the police force and also by eliminating more of our individual liberty. That wouldn't be worth it to me. Of course there are issues in dealing with illegal immigration, but I've never seen a comprehensive plan to improve the policy in a way that would prevent an adequate percentage of illegal immigrants from entering the country, what those financial costs would be to taxpayers, what costs it would have on the marketplace and what costs would be associated with our liberty. 

Like everything this is 98% emotional political fodder and I have no interest in that. 

[Adam]

1 minute ago, arch stanton said:

And you get this cheap domestic labor by creating a second class of people, whether citizens or non. American laws make it impossible to have a second class of citizens or even legal aliens so you need illegals 

I agree and provided those illegals are happy with their circumstances (and I assume they are) I'm in favor of it on a human level. 

[arch stanton]

1 minute ago, Adam said:

I agree and provided those illegals are happy with their circumstances (and I assume they are) I'm in favor of it on a human level. 

If you want to see something inhuman come to the Middle East and see how they treat the legal aliens

[Adam]

Just now, arch stanton said:

If you want to see something inhuman come to the Middle East and see how they treat the legal aliens

Hard pass. lol

[Thomas]

10 minutes ago, arch stanton said:

If you want to see something inhuman come to the Middle East and see how they treat the legal aliens

How else would we get a World Cup in 2022?

[Kevin]

1 hour ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

 

You're being obtuse.

Let me put it this way, our current method of preventing illegal immigration is garbage.

One side wants to take on illegal immigration and eliminate it through whatever means necessary.

The other side couldn't care less, or says they have a right to be here, or claims racism, or calls for open borders. And on and on and on...

Just like ObamaCare right? It's just another talking point and nothing more for one side to make it seem like they really care but make no real effort to solve the problem (I'm sure money is a motivating factor as well). 

I'm all for  securing the border but a damn wall won't do anything (not to mention a lot of land is privately owned along the border). 

[Tank]

5 hours ago, Jason said:

 

 

troll level: expert

[Make Angels Great Again]

1 minute ago, Kevin said:

Just like ObamaCare right? It's just another talking point and nothing more for one side to make it seem like they really care but make no real effort to solve the problem (I'm sure money is a motivating factor as well). 

I'm all for  securing the border but a damn wall won't do anything (not to mention a lot of land is privately owned along the border). 

 

There have been more proposals than just the wall. Ending the visa lottery and chain migration for example.

But nope. Racism.

[Tank]

3 hours ago, mtangelsfan said:

I have literally no idea why anyone would watch FOX or MSNBC.  Worst things on tv, including paid advertising shows.

 

 

 

and Iron Fist Eagle.

excellent post, would read again.

[mtangelsfan]

Freaking Bolton:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/iran-threatens-to-hit-us-israel-after-trump-aide-warns-of-maximum-pressure/ar-BBMhAD1?li=BBnb7Kz

What a POS.

[Make Angels Great Again]

32 minutes ago, Adam said:

I'm really just playing Devil's advocate here, dude. I think the metrics around this are incredibly complex. There is a taxpayer cost to every government service. We could eliminate a lot of murders, a lot of car deaths, a lot of thefts by increasing the size of scope of the police force and also by eliminating more of our individual liberty. That wouldn't be worth it to me. Of course there are issues in dealing with illegal immigration, but I've never seen a comprehensive plan to improve the policy in a way that would prevent an adequate percentage of illegal immigrants from entering the country, what those financial costs would be to taxpayers, what costs it would have on the marketplace and what costs would be associated with our liberty. 

Like everything this is 98% emotional political fodder and I have no interest in that. 

 

Hey its all good man.

Personally I'd rather see resources go towards this than any of the useless departments bloating the federal government. 

[Tank]

1 hour ago, arch stanton said:

So why hasn’t it been stopped? Because those in position to stop it not only aren’t affected negatively by it but they actually profit from it. Stop allowing anyone from profiting from illegal immigration and illegal immigration will stop 

agreed. the problem is that none of us want to pay $6 for a tomato or $9 for a head of lettuce, so we're willing to endure with certain things because it keeps more of our money in our pockets.

[Tank]

it seems to me that after 9/11, our border security would be a much higher priority. look at the security changes we've all had to endure to fly on a plane since 2001. those are good/necessary changes, but i think tightening our border entry system absolutely needs more attention.