Trumped

[arch stanton]

6 minutes ago, BackUpTheTruck said:

If you don't think that's what the Democrats' intentions are, you are either ignorant or in denial.

Again with the catch-all boogeyman. Are you saying 44 million registered Democrats are hellbent on letting the immigrants flood in?

[UndertheHalo]

5 minutes ago, BackUpTheTruck said:

It's not about race. I plan on living in California for the rest of my life, and whites will be a minority here very soon. I'm fine with that.

Democrats used to temper their opposition to capitalism.  Now Democrats consider capitalism a dirty word, and fully embrace socialism.

I don't want a one party system under any circumstances, even if that party is the Republican party.

No I don’t believe you.  I think it’s very much about that.  I think you have a huge problem with it and again, everything you post here implies that.  I think you’re a coward and won’t just speak plainly.  

And more bullshit.  Democrats think capitalism is a dirty word huh ? Man, a lot of democrats have been in the federal government and somehow capitalism has survived.  I suspect that you couldn’t give an accurate description of capitalism or socialism or any other economic structure if your life depended on it.  You’re the one all the boogeyman words. 

Edited August 9, 2018 by UndertheHalo

[arch stanton]

8 minutes ago, BackUpTheTruck said:

Abolish ICE

According to?

[UndertheHalo]

14 minutes ago, BackUpTheTruck said:

Abolish ICE

So, to be clear.  This isn’t an idea that I support.

But that some people do, it doesn’t mean that all liberals are pursuing a immigrant flood policy conspiracy.  ICE as an agency has been around for what ? 15 years ? Somehow the United States had border policy and enforcement  before existance of ICE.  Ever heard of the INS ? Most people who have a problem with that agency believe it has an irreparably toxic culture. Thus they want it closed down.  Not necessarily that they want open borders.

you're talking to someone who is fairly liberal.  I’m telling you that I do support secured borders.  And I do believe we need to have inmigration reform.  We clearly need to know who’s coming into the country and we need to be able to control that flow.  But I also believe in the American immigrant tradition.  And I’m not someone who’s terrified of new Americans. 

Edited August 9, 2018 by UndertheHalo

[UndertheHalo]

Ya, if it walks like a duck and quacks like one. Well. 

[RallyMo]

22 minutes ago, BackUpTheTruck said:

It's not about race. I plan on living in California for the rest of my life, and whites will be a minority here very soon. I'm fine with that.

Democrats used to temper their opposition to capitalism.  Now Democrats consider capitalism a dirty word, and fully embrace socialism.

I don't want a one party system under any circumstances, even if that party is the Republican party.

You literally (yes, literally) have Dems on here saying that they don't believe in what you feel they believe and somehow you just can't accept it at face value. How in the world do you expect to have a conversation about these things with an approach like that? It's the keyboard equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears. That's not a very mature way to confront things.

[mtangelsfan]

I think it is safe to say that one of the motives behind the Democratic Party's stance of immigration is to garner more votes.  I don't think this is some crazy theory, it makes sense.

That isn't to say every democrat feels that way, but the party..................

[UndertheHalo]

No it’s not safe to say that MT.  Maybe republicans would get some immigrant votes (they do get some) if their policies weren’t openly hostile towards immigrants.  

[UndertheHalo]

Which democratic presidential candidate hasn’t spoken affirmatively about all of those things ?

[UndertheHalo]

3 minutes ago, BackUpTheTruck said:

Bernie Sanders.

He wasn’t the nominee.  And your characterization is wrong.  Sanders does support a free market and he’s not for open borders.  You’re wrong again. 

You do understand that this country does have “socialist” policies.  Medicare ? Social security ? Etc.  are you opposed to those things ?

Edited August 9, 2018 by UndertheHalo

[UndertheHalo]

4 minutes ago, BackUpTheTruck said:

I'm Jewish.

A decent part of your Trump crowd REALLY doesn’t like you.  Maybe keep it on the down low at your next Trump rally. 

Edited August 9, 2018 by UndertheHalo

[UndertheHalo]

2 minutes ago, BackUpTheTruck said:

He wasn't the nominee, but he was a very popular candidate. I'll go out on a limb and say Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez voted for Bernie Sanders. If people like her become the majority in congress, then we have a problem.

Says you.  And to back up this claim you’ve just made up a bunch of nonsense. 

[Thomas]

22 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

I think it is safe to say that one of the motives behind the Democratic Party's stance of immigration is to garner more votes.  I don't think this is some crazy theory, it makes sense.

That isn't to say every democrat feels that way, but the party..................

 

19 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

No it’s not safe to say that MT.  Maybe republicans would get some immigrant votes (they do get some) if their policies weren’t openly hostile towards immigrants.  

I didn't really think there was much controversy in this regard?

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/18/16458164/democrats-daca-border-security-schumer-pelosi

[UndertheHalo]

2 hours ago, Thomas said:

 

I didn't really think there was much controversy in this regard?

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/18/16458164/democrats-daca-border-security-schumer-pelosi

This isn’t evidence of a conspiracy to overflow the electorate.  I don’t believe that a plurality of Democrats support a radical open borders policy.  Even if they have drifted left.  I mean Reagan embraced amnesty.  Does that make his immigration policy radically left ? As much as the Democrats have moved left, the Republicans have least equally moved far right. 

If you want to bemoan the move away from the center, I’m with you.  The polarization of the issue is unfortunate.  Like everything else unfortunately. 

Edited August 9, 2018 by UndertheHalo

[UndertheHalo]

2 minutes ago, BackUpTheTruck said:

Bernie Sanders wasn't popular as a presidential candidate, and Ocaiso-Cortez is a moderate Democrat.

I think we're done here.

Haha, this is all you’ve got.  Constantly making things up.  I literally said neither of these things.   When I said “says you” I was referencing the we’d be in trouble comment.  Really not that hard to discern my meaning there.  

Bernie Sanders of course was very popular and remains so.  And Ocasio-Cortez-Cortez is definitely not a traditionally moderate democrat.  

[mtangelsfan]

2 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

This isn’t evidence of a conspiracy to overflow the electorate.  I don’t believe that a plurality of Democrats support a radical open borders policy.  Even if they have drifted left.  I mean Reagan embraced amnesty.  Does that make his labor policy radically left ? As much as the Democrats have moved left, the Republicans have least equally moved far right. 

If you want to bemoan the move away from the center, I’m with you.  The polarization of the issue is unfortunate.  

I didn't say conspiracy.  Come on.  In the same manner that big business wants immigration to sustain cheap labor, the party courts these voters because they are much more likely to vote left.  I think this is completely self evident and it is actually smart of them to do so.  Those in power seek to get more.

I'm surprised you don't see this or just refuse to.

[UndertheHalo]

4 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

I didn't say conspiracy.  Come on.  In the same manner that big business wants immigration to sustain cheap labor, the party courts these voters because they are much more likely to vote left.  I think this is completely self evident and it is actually smart of them to do so.  Those in power seek to get more.

I'm surprised you don't see this or just refuse to.

I don’t dispute that Democrats have pandered to immigrants.  If I misunderstood your meaning, then my apologies.  But I am arguing with a guy who does think there’s a conspiracy.  I was mistaken and thought you were agreeing with that.

[arch stanton]

Ocasio-Cortez is the latest spaghetti noodle they're throwing at the wall. When it tumbles to the floor they'll move on to the next

[failos]

21 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

A decent part of your Trump crowd REALLY doesn’t like you.  Maybe keep it on the down low at your next Trump rally. 

You’re only projecting your own preconceived bigotry by assuming Jews are discriminated. Republicans love Israel and Jews. Donald Trump’s precious Ivanka is Jewish and so are his grandchildren.

The guy literally recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, a Jewish country.

Show us an example of Trump supporters hating on Jews or Judaism. And please don’t use the word “globalism” as a substitute for Jews. Thanks.

[UndertheHalo]

4 minutes ago, failos said:

You’re only projecting your own preconceived bigotry by assuming Jews are discriminated. Republicans love Israel and Jews. Donald Trump’s precious Ivanka is Jewish and so are his grandchildren.

The guy literally recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, a Jewish country.

Show us an example of Trump supporters hating on Jews or Judaism. And please don’t use the word “globalism” as a substitute for Jews. Thanks.

I agree that the evangelical Zionists and White supremecists are strange bedfellows.  Yet, they are bedfellows.  

You think the tiki torch bros in Charlottesville are big fans of the Jews ? That’s a part of Trumps base. Whether you want to admit it or not. 

[Thomas]

18 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

This isn’t evidence of a conspiracy to overflow the electorate.  I don’t believe that a plurality of Democrats support a radical open borders policy.  Even if they have drifted left.  I mean Reagan embraced amnesty.  Does that make his labor policy radically left ? As much as the Democrats have moved left, the Republicans have least equally moved far right. 

If you want to bemoan the move away from the center, I’m with you.  The polarization of the issue is unfortunate.  Like everything else unfortunately. 

On this issue I certainly don't mind being as I support open borders. Just was confused with your disagreement with MT. The Democrat's motivations regarding immigration is pretty transparent. While I'm sure they sure wouldn't mind the votes increased immigration brings, I'm sure the are aware of the scrutiny a large increase would bring. But it is interesting to watch their policy evolve as they move away from the manufacturing unions. Of course moving away from those unions sure didn't come back to bite them in the ass.

[mtangelsfan]

6 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

I agree that the evangelical Zionists and White supremecists are strange bedfellows.  Yet, they are bedfellows.  

You think the tiki torch bros in Charlottesville are big fans of the Jews ? That’s a part of Trumps base. Whether you want to admit it or not. 

LOL

[UndertheHalo]

Just now, mtangelsfan said:

LOL

Not sure what’s funny about this.  Plenty of these folks proudly describe themselves as such.  Plenty of Jews proudly describe themselves as Zionists.  It’s a real idealogy.  

[UndertheHalo]

5 minutes ago, Thomas said:

On this issue I certainly don't mind being as I support open borders. Just was confused with your disagreement with MT. The Democrat's motivations regarding immigration is pretty transparent. While I'm sure they sure wouldn't mind the votes increased immigration brings, I'm sure the are aware of the scrutiny a large increase would bring. But it is interesting to watch their policy evolve as they move away from the manufacturing unions. Of course moving away from those unions sure didn't come back to bite them in the ass.

I misunderstood MT.  Are they moving away from unions though ? I’m not sure id say that.  Especially with the popularity of people like Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez. 

Perhaps some are, like Schultz or Bloomberg. 

[Thomas]

11 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

I misunderstood MT.  Are they moving away from unions though ? I’m not sure id say that.  Especially with the popularity of people like Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez. 

Perhaps some are, like Schultz or Bloomberg. 

Of course I am strictly speaking the capital D party. Of which Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez are not exactly endeared by. But this isn't exactly a new criticism.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/10/democrats-working-class-americans-us-election

https://www.lawcha.org/2016/11/23/bill-clinton-remade-democratic-party-abandoning-unions-working-class-whites/

And a Democratic POTUS who strongly supported manufacturing unions wouldn't make the, in hindsight terrible, statement that some manufacturing jobs aren't coming back. Even if that is in fact true.