Trumped

[UndertheHalo]

12 minutes ago, Blarg said:

I think it's funny that people (Nate) can't separate Evangelicals, which are basically Protestants, from Fundamentalists that are the hard core subset of Christianity.

It is easy to lump them together so you can claim a larger number but in reality the Fundamentalists are the far right that make most of the noise. The Evangelicals have a much more liberal viewpoint that addresses social and scientific change in society. 

So instead of pointing fingers and screaming Evangelicals are evil! Maybe take a step back and learn just exactly what you are painting with a broad brush. It is a subset not the whole.

Not all Protestants are evangelicals.  The evangelical movement is very closely tied to “born again Christians” often free denominational.  Lutherans are Protestant.  Most wouldn’t consider themselves evangelicals.  Presbyterians as well.  Anglicans etc. 

you’re definitley right that it’s not fair to broad brush them.  The Christian community is quite complex.  Many very liberal on many issues. 

The hyper conservative “evangelicals” tho do earn their reputation as hypocrites as Nate often references IMO.  And they aren’t really a small group.  But again, also not representative of the whole. 

Ultimately as we all know.  People can be assholes.  Atheists, Christians, Muslims, Jews etc.  it’s part of the human condition. 

Edited June 19, 2018 by UndertheHalo

[mtangelsfan]

^^^^^^^

Pretty much agree.  

[red321]

35 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

 

Ultimately as we all know.  People can be assholes.  Atheists, Christians, Muslims, Jews etc.  it’s part of the human condition. 

Especially Lou...there was a thread about it

[Adam]

37 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Not all Protestants are evangelicals.  The evangelical movement is very closely tied to “born again Christians” often free denominational.  Lutherans are Protestant.  Most wouldn’t consider themselves evangelicals.  Presbyterians as well.  Anglicans etc. 

you’re definitley right that it’s not fair to broad brush them.  The Christian community is quite complex.  Many very liberal on many issues. 

The hyper conservative “evangelicals” tho do earn their reputation as hypocrites as Nate often references IMO.  And they aren’t really a small group.  But again, also not representative of the whole. 

Ultimately as we all know.  People can be assholes.  Atheists, Christians, Muslims, Jews etc.  it’s part of the human condition. 

Well in a democracy everyone who chooses to cast a vote that allows for the State to impact individuals against their will is an asshole. 

[Lou]

8 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

^^^^^^^

Pretty much agree.  

as do I. 

the problem with Nate is that he dislikes all Christians due to their beliefs. he used to rant about the evils that Christians reap upon the world and was met with solid arguments as to why his comments were uninformed at best, and utterly ridiculous the rest of the time. 

given that, he has turned his rants on Evangelical even though, as far as I can recall, nobody here has defended that group and the actions the causes they have taken up. most everyone else here has the ability to understand both sides of the issues without painting a particular group as being all-hating. 

the worst part is that nate is obviously an intelligent guy. 

[Lou]

5 minutes ago, red321 said:

Especially Lou...there was a thread about it

I agree

[Lou]

. . . if you don't believe red,  ask the doctors at San Antonio Hospital 

[red321]

1 minute ago, Lou said:

. . . if you don't believe red,  ask the doctors at San Antonio Hospital 

Is that where you had the stick removed?

[Thomas]

4 minutes ago, red321 said:

Is that where you had the stick removed?

When was it reinserted? At least most recently.

[Blarg]

49 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

The hyper conservative “evangelicals” tho do earn their reputation as hypocrites as Nate often references IMO

These are actually Fundamentalists but are grouped with evangelicals. Some may hide behind the Evangelical title to appeal to a broader base but essentially they are not close in terms of doctrine.

[Lou]

6 minutes ago, red321 said:

Is that where you had the stick removed?

No!!!!

 

that was done as an outpatient procedure at my doctor's office 

[mtangelsfan]

Here is what I find funny, evangelicals get called hypocrites.  I guess because they tell are supposed to be nice.

So isn't everyone supposed to be nice or do atheists and agnostics get to be assholes simply due to their belief or lack thereof?

[Lou]

heads just exploded 

[red321]

19 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

Here is what I find funny, evangelicals get called hypocrites.  I guess because they tell are supposed to be nice.

So isn't everyone supposed to be nice or do atheists and agnostics get to be assholes simply due to their belief or lack thereof?

I think that's a mischaracterization MT...a number of evangelical organizations get called hypocritical because they don't appear to practice what they...preach, especially when it comes to the poor and less fortunate and in a lot of cases they seem to put support of the Republican party ahead of what one would think their religious beliefs would dictate. For example, someone like Trump.

 

[the dude abides]

19 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

Here is what I find funny, evangelicals get called hypocrites.  I guess because they tell are supposed to be nice.

So isn't everyone supposed to be nice or do atheists and agnostics get to be assholes simply due to their belief or lack thereof?

Are you talking in general, or in this specific instance?  For me, the hypocrisy is when leaders / elected officials attempt to legislate from the pulpit and often (usually) fall short themselves.

Has nothing to do really with being nice or being an asshole. 

[mtangelsfan]

2 minutes ago, red321 said:

I think that's a mischaracterization MT...a number of evangelical organizations get called hypocritical because they don't appear to practice what they...preach, especially when it comes to the poor and less fortunate and in a lot of cases they seem to put support of the Republican party ahead of what one would think their religious beliefs would dictate. For example, someone like Trump.

 

So atheists, agnostics don't preach being kind and good?

[mtangelsfan]

1 minute ago, the dude abides said:

Are you talking in general, or in this specific instance?  For me, the hypocrisy is when leaders / elected officials attempt to legislate from the pulpit and often (usually) fall short themselves.

Has nothing to do really with being nice or being an asshole. 

Who doesn't try to legislate from the pulpit?  Seriously, what is the difference between a pulpit in a church and anywhere else that someone speaks from?

[UndertheHalo]

I think the hypocrite thing comes from people like Jeff Sessions and Mike Pence that interpret the Bible the way that they do.  

Which specifically is in a manner that often seems completely the opposite of the plain language of Jesus teachings.  It’s not a small group that does this or subscribes to this.  There’s no way around the 90% or whatever that voted for the pedophile in Alabama and at the same time claimed to be devout evangelical Christians.  I mean, surely anyone can see the hypocrisy there.  

Obviously, nobody likes jerks.  A lot of these people do claim a moral superiority.  So they stand out when they’re grossly hypocritical. I can only speak for myself.  I get not liking the broadbrush.  And I think I’ve always posted in a way that’s sympathetic to that objection.  But I also think that you guys shouldn’t be troubled by those hypocritical groups being called out. 

Edited June 19, 2018 by UndertheHalo

[mtangelsfan]

4 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

I think the hypocrite thing comes from people like Jeff Sessions and Mike Pence that interpret the Bible the way that they do.  

Which specifically is in a manner that often seems completely the opposite of the plain language of Jesus teachings.  It’s not a small group that does this or subscribes to this.  There’s no way around the 90% or whatever that voted for the pedophile in Alabama and at the same time claimed to be devout evangelical Christians.  I mean, surely anyone can see the hypocrisy there.  

Obviously, nobody likes jerks.  A lot of these people do claim a moral superiority.  So they stand out when they’re grossly hypocritical. I can only speak for myself.  I get not liking the broadbrush.  And I think I’ve always posted in a way that’s sympathetic to that objection.  But I also think that you guys shouldn’t be troubled by those hypocritical groups being called out. 

I'm not troubled, I'm confused.  Is it your argument that only Evangelicals are in favor of this move by Trump?  If not, why are they the only ones being called out?

[Adam]

3 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

 

Obviously, nobody likes jerks.  A lot of these people do claim a moral superiority.  So they stand out when they’re grossly hypocritical.

For sure. No one hurts Christianity as much as Christians

[UndertheHalo]

1 minute ago, mtangelsfan said:

I'm not troubled, I'm confused.  Is it your argument that only Evangelicals are in favor of this move by Trump?  If not, why are they the only ones being called out?

Of course not.  Trumps base is not only Christians.  A lot of these alt right pricks I would suspect to be atheists.  

[mtangelsfan]

1 minute ago, UndertheHalo said:

Of course not.  Trumps base is not only Christians.  A lot of these alt right pricks I would suspect to be atheists.  

So why not call them out?  

[Adam]

2 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Of course not.  Trumps base is not only Christians.  A lot of these alt right pricks I would suspect to be atheists.  

I think Nate thinks they're just Evangelicals

[UndertheHalo]

Just now, mtangelsfan said:

So why not call them out?  

Well, the ones I have a problem with I don’t reference as Christian.  I think I usually identify them as alt right.  Personally. 

[Rico]

41 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

Here is what I find funny, evangelicals get called hypocrites.  I guess because they tell are supposed to be nice.

So isn't everyone supposed to be nice or do atheists and agnostics get to be assholes simply due to their belief or lack thereof?

Atheists and Agnostics are only assholes to people claiming to be nice but are really assholes themselves.