Trumped

[UndertheHalo]

18 minutes ago, Jason said:

This will be a slow process to denuclearize North Korea. Most wise people will understand this. As far as Trump in this, he seems to have made more ground on it than previous leaders have. I am glad that he isn't going to play their games. This still isn't a dead issue 

Sure, “he” is not playing their “games”

The White House knee jerk agreed to a meeting imagining they would get every concession that they demanded.  Including denuclearization.  NK will never denuclearize.  Any semi sentient monkey should understand that.  Why the fu*ck would NK denuclearize ?  Because Trump said some scary words ? Jesus Christ drop that.  The nukes are literally their only chip. 

[UndertheHalo]

4 minutes ago, failos said:

I have no problems with people who lean left; but I don't understand why they are so excited about the NK deal falling through. I would've been thrilled if Obama managed to denuclearize the Korean Peninsula. 

Excited ? I doubt anyone is excited about a Trump/Kim Jong Un stand-off. 

[failos]

Just now, UndertheHalo said:

Excited ? I doubt anyone is excited about a Trump/Kim Jong Un stand-off. 

Nobody is excited about peaceful relations with an adversary?

[UndertheHalo]

Trumps approach to diplomacy with our most dangerous enemies is all or nothing on everything.  

Miserable failure or disaster are the only outcomes that we’ll get from this.  

[Thomas]

3 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

 Why the fu*ck would NK denuclearize ?  Because Trump said some scary words ? Jesus Christ drop that.  The nukes are literally their only chip. 

This has been and will always be about China. Even Trump has said this which should state how obvious a fact this is. If NK does get rid of their nuclear option it'll be because China has made the alternative so unappealing that disarmament becomes the only appealing choice for the regime.

[Thomas]

1 minute ago, UndertheHalo said:

Trumps approach to diplomacy with our most dangerous enemies is all or nothing on everything.  

Miserable failure or disaster are the only outcomes that we’ll get from this.  

Agreed. Far more effective but magnitudes more dangerous.

[failos]

2 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Trumps approach to diplomacy with our most dangerous enemies is all or nothing on everything.  

Miserable failure or disaster are the only outcomes that we’ll get from this.  

Maybe you'd like the approach we normally take (i.e. regime change through force)? 

[UndertheHalo]

1 minute ago, failos said:

Maybe you'd like the approach we normally take (i.e. regime change through force)? 

Don’t worry about it.  That’s on team Trumps agenda as well. 

Bolton was bragging about having a party in Tehran by the end of 2018 last year.   He surrounds himself with war mongers.  Why do you think that is ? It will take very little to take our country down a path to war.  These assholes get wet dreaming about it.   Don’t kid yourself.  Trump wouldn’t give a 2nd thought to sending off thousands of American soldiers to die in some war he thinks will bring him some perverse twisted Trump version of glory.  This meeting falling apart is terrible news.  But it’s also not unexpected at. all. 

[UndertheHalo]

12 minutes ago, Thomas said:

This has been and will always be about China. Even Trump has said this which should state how obvious a fact this is. If NK does get rid of their nuclear option it'll be because China has made the alternative so unappealing that disarmament becomes the only appealing choice for the regime.

China is of course the key player.  But I think you know well that China uses NK and the conflict to further it’s own interests.  Which are definitely not ours.  Having a lunatic regime that it can easily manipulate to give the United States problems is a great asset for the Chinese and they know it.  

They don’t give a F*ck about peace on the peninsula.  As long as they feel they can control NK.  They won’t do anything to bring them down.  

[Kevin]

3 hours ago, failos said:

I have no problems with people who lean left; but I don't understand why they are so excited about the NK deal falling through. I would've been thrilled if Obama managed to denuclearize the Korean Peninsula. 

We need more of that attitude. 

However, with polarizing news outlets from both sides, this will never happen. Fox was outraged when Obama talked about diplomacy with NK and CNN was largely silent when this first began. They were eventually forced to talk about it when they could no longer ignore it. Got to give credit where credit is due. Doesnt mean you have to vote for someone just because you agreed with them once or showed occasional praise. 

 

I know it's petty but I'll admit I'm glad it fell through. I'm not big on narcissists and the fact Trump took all the credit when it was going well makes me slightly happy. Props to him and South Korea for getting the ball rolling is what should have been said. 

[InsideThePark]

I really do hope it all works out in the end. That said, lolz

 

[mtangelsfan]

^^^^^^^

LOL

[Taylor]

"Peace" is definitely one of the first things that comes to mind when I think about our president.

[mtangelsfan]

Just now, Taylor said:

"Peace" is definitely one of the first things that comes to mind when I think about our president.

Maybe but "peace" hasn't been the first thing that came to the mind of our last several presidents.  I can't think of a time we haven't been in some kind of conflict since.......

[red321]

1 hour ago, failos said:

Leave it to CNN to root against the US. I'm really disappointed you follow Jim Acosta.

the job of the free press isn't to root for or against the US, it's to report the news.

the job of the press in autocratic nations is to "root" (aka propaganda) for the state...but I guess if you are watching Fox, or Pravda, it would be the same thing

 

Criticizing the government, or highlighting the absurdity of treating a peace summit like a pay per view tv special, isn't rooting against the US

[Thomas]

35 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

China is of course the key player.  But I think you know well that China uses NK and the conflict to further it’s own interests.  Which are definitely not ours.  Having a lunatic regime that it can easily manipulate to give the United States problems is a great asset for the Chinese and they know it.  

They don’t give a F*ck about peace on the peninsula.  As long as they feel they can control NK.  They won’t do anything to bring them down.  

Nukes changed that dynamic considerably. Pre-nukes there were the possible refuges in the millions heading north that was annoying but was manageable from China's point of view. But the NK regime having nukes and a reliable short range delivery system makes them considerably more than an annoyance. Be it a direct suicidal strike from NK or being on the periphery of the region turning into a nuclear wasteland. That's a variable they can't control and certainly makes China's populace uncomfortable. Having a lunatic with nukes as a neighbor is less than ideal. Ask Canada.  China doesn't need Kim Jong Un to maintain the buffer. Needless to say NK is on a considerably shorter leash than say a decade ago. If China can keep NK sovereign but without nukes, that'd certainly be their best case scenario.

[Thomas]

1 minute ago, red321 said:

the job of the free press isn't to root for or against the US, it's to report the news.

The job of corporate media is to achieve an acceptable return on investment. Everything else is secondary.

[red321]

Just now, Thomas said:

The job of corporate media is to achieve an acceptable return on investment. Everything else is secondary.

point taken

[failos]

35 minutes ago, red321 said:

the job of the free press isn't to root for or against the US, it's to report the news.

the job of the press in autocratic nations is to "root" (aka propaganda) for the state...but I guess if you are watching Fox, or Pravda, it would be the same thing

  

Criticizing the government, or highlighting the absurdity of treating a peace summit like a pay per view tv special, isn't rooting against the US

Ok, well I'm talking about people laughing at the deal falling apart, not the strawman you just built.

[red321]

7 minutes ago, failos said:

Ok, well I'm talking about people laughing at the deal falling apart, not the strawman you just built.

you made a comment about Jim Acosta and cnn rooting against the US, based on a tweet from 5/21 that highlights a coin. His tweet had nothing to do with the summit failing.

[UndertheHalo]

42 minutes ago, Thomas said:

Nukes changed that dynamic considerably. Pre-nukes there were the possible refuges in the millions heading north that was annoying but was manageable from China's point of view. But the NK regime having nukes and a reliable short range delivery system makes them considerably more than an annoyance. Be it a direct suicidal strike from NK or being on the periphery of the region turning into a nuclear wasteland. That's a variable they can't control and certainly makes China's populace uncomfortable. Having a lunatic with nukes as a neighbor is less than ideal. Ask Canada.  China doesn't need Kim Jong Un to maintain the buffer. Needless to say NK is on a considerably shorter leash than say a decade ago. If China can keep NK sovereign but without nukes, that'd certainly be their best case scenario.

I think that we mostly agree.  I wasn’t saying that they use them as a buffer.  

[UndertheHalo]

1 minute ago, red321 said:

you made a comment about Jim Acosta and cnn rooting against the US, based on a tweet from 5/21 that highlights a coin. His tweet had nothing to do with the summit failing.

Also, it should be pointed out that making a coin at this stage was ridiculous anyway.  Mocking that coin is what the WH deserves. 

[failos]

8 minutes ago, red321 said:

you made a comment about Jim Acosta and cnn rooting against the US, based on a tweet from 5/21 that highlights a coin. His tweet had nothing to do with the summit failing.

Trump canceled the summit today, but it was rumored to be canceled well before that. Jim Acosta is obviously making fun of the coin and everything about it. The dude is, undoubtedly, thrilled that there will be no summit meeting.

[Tank]

2 hours ago, Rico said:

What is going to happen with the coin they made?

 

it's a nice little bonus for those who got rangers 2011 WS champs tattoos.

[Thomas]

18 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Mocking that coin is what the WH deserves. 

Definitely though I get it politically. Even in mock we put the words Trump, North Korea and peace together. 

The hyperbole has against the administration has been equally cringe worthy however. Which is astounding. The lead story on nbcnews.com is plain silly. 
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/what-went-wrong-trump-north-korea-everything-n877201

I mean even the headline is just objectively wrong. His handling of Korea has been one of Trump's few actions that has gained him favorable opinion. Granted it's a low bar but still.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trumps-handling-of-north-korea-has-been-one-of-the-few-things-americans-liked-about-his-presidency/ Politically this has been a win for him regardless.

When did it become in vogue to ridicule leaders actually talking about their disagreements? As in when is a summit ever a bad idea? Sure summits can lead to bad deals. But this idea that we as a country should not have meetings with leaders we don't like or trust? That's generally EXACTLY the people we should be having summits with. Even if the meetings are fruitless.  That's better than this elitist policy some seem to adhere to.  This seems like bullshit we'd hear from the right. But obviously this moronic thinking crosses over to some on the left.