Trumped

[Amazing Larry]

So Trump says “Why are we having all these people from shithole countries come here?" and I'm supposed to be outraged?

What if I agree?

[arch stanton]

I’m just curious about where he thought they might be coming from

[Blarg]

Slovenia.

[Rico]

 

[arch stanton]

So what it boils down to is that it’s the character of the immigrant and not the country of origin that matters? Both sides might want to consider that

[mtangelsfan]

8 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

I think it’s stupid that apparently you and Blarg presume that I’m a privaleged snobby liberal twat. 

Its it isn't that.  Your comment about shitholes and that being where Trump voters come from was just stupid.  Plenty of beautiful places, wealthy places, small towns where people are kind and help each other.  

Also, your comment about those folks not doing jobs immigrants would do is really ignorant.  You realize most farmers/ranchers voted for Trump, right?  You also realized they do that very thing for a living?  Get up at five, work until dark or beyond, fencing, feeding, planting, harvesting, milking, feeding, pounding in fence posts in the dead of winter.  These people would work your ass off and you know it.  

Bottom line for me, for folks who complain about the hatred coming from Trump and his supporters, you sure show a whole heck of a lot of that very hate.

I have no idea what kind of person you are, but your persona here is one of a guy who has no desire to understand the folks you consider your enemy and who despises their very existence.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

Hilde Restad, a university associate professor in international studies, says Trump has achieved the unlikely feat of praising Norway while still offending its citizens.

She says that “Norwegians in general have such a minority complex that as long as we are noticed we get very excited. But in general we are not wanting to be flattered by this U.S. president in this way.”

[UndertheHalo]

2 hours ago, mtangelsfan said:

Its it isn't that.  Your comment about shitholes and that being where Trump voters come from was just stupid.  Plenty of beautiful places, wealthy places, small towns where people are kind and help each other.  

Also, your comment about those folks not doing jobs immigrants would do is really ignorant.  You realize most farmers/ranchers voted for Trump, right?  You also realized they do that very thing for a living?  Get up at five, work until dark or beyond, fencing, feeding, planting, harvesting, milking, feeding, pounding in fence posts in the dead of winter.  These people would work your ass off and you know it.  

Bottom line for me, for folks who complain about the hatred coming from Trump and his supporters, you sure show a whole heck of a lot of that very hate.

I have no idea what kind of person you are, but your persona here is one of a guy who has no desire to understand the folks you consider your enemy and who despises their very existence.

and your persona is a guy who refuses to accept that this country has a real problem with actual bigots.  Moreover, those people like the president exactly because of the terrible things that he says and proposes.  Not in spite of it.  Which confirms their bigotry.  And i've got news for your MT.  You're always so quick to talk about what liberals hate.  You ooze plenty of the contempt for progressives. I mean look at your post.  What do you know about me ? You know i'm an Angels fan and that I tilt left politically.  Those things aside, you have NO IDEA what I do or who I am and you're so confident that my ass would be "worked off".  Who the hell are you to tell me that ?  You saying that screams an outrageous superiority complex that ironically seems to trouble you so much about me.  Even though, i have never questioned anyones work ethic on here.  Last time I checked, being a rancher isn't being a slave.  Those people choose that work and life style.  Presumably, they enjoy it.  Also, a cursory google search indicates that they make a pretty decent living. 

You're right that I don't wake up at the crack of dawn to feed animals or whatever.  I'm sorry.  A ranchers lifestyle doesn't give them superior moral fiber to me.  Which is something you seem convinced of.  I know and appreciate that its hard work.  I know and appreciate its important work.  Thats great,  Theres lots of hard and important work in many fields and industries.  I respect the work and lifestyle  So, while you preach to me about being arrogant and judgy maybe you should look in the mirror. 

And I think you maybe lack an appreciation for the type of labor that many immigrants (particularly latino) are involved in and what they are compensated (not a lot).  So i'm not backing off that comment.  They work as hard as anyone else.  I think they deserve at least the dignity of not being a harassed by a racist prick chief executive. 

Let me be clear, I know that there are wonderful places and people in heartland america.  Some of what I say is tongue in cheek.  And, I do appreciate some of their issues.  You don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand that retreating industries makes it tough for some people.  I know that there are other economic issues.  Still, economic troubles do not excuse dumb racism and xenophobia.  Which seem to have a solid foothold in these places.  I have less empathy for the social issues, that are issues because of intolerance.  I don't have any enemies.  Anyway, i've gone long enough here.  I still like you MT and Blag too. 

Edited January 12, 2018 by UndertheHalo

[Crampknees]

So what has he done so far today, had to leave to a job early and just played classic rock. They did play Frampton and it reminded me of the girl I took to one of his concerts and at they end she told me she never liked me and just wanted to see Frampton.  With Trump you just live that nightmare over and over daily.  

[Adam]

37 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

and your persona is a guy who refuses to accept that this country has a real problem with actual bigots.  Moreover, those people like the president exactly because of the terrible things that he says and proposes.  Not in spite of it.  Which confirms their bigotry.  And i've got news for your MT.  You're always so quick to talk about what liberals hate.  You ooze plenty of the contempt for progressives. I mean look at your post.  What do you know about me ? You know i'm an Angels fan and that I tilt left politically.  Those things aside, you have NO IDEA what I do or who I am and you're so confident that my ass would be "worked off".  Who the hell are you to tell me that ?  You saying that screams an outrageous superiority complex that ironically seems to trouble you so much about me.  Even though, i have never questioned anyones work ethic on here.  Last time I checked, being a rancher isn't being a slave.  Those people choose that work and life style.  Presumably, they enjoy it.  Also, a cursory google search indicates that they make a pretty decent living. 

You're right that I don't wake up at the crack of dawn to feed animals or whatever.  I'm sorry.  A ranchers lifestyle doesn't give them superior moral fiber to me.  Which is something you seem convinced of.  I know and appreciate that its hard work.  I know and appreciate its important work.  Thats great,  Theres lots of hard and important work in many fields and industries.  I respect the work and lifestyle  So, while you preach to me about being arrogant and judgy maybe you should look in the mirror. 

And I think you maybe lack an appreciation for the type of labor that many immigrants (particularly latino) are involved in and what they are compensated (not a lot).  So i'm not backing off that comment.  They work as hard as anyone else.  I think they deserve at least the dignity of not being a harassed by a racist prick chief executive. 

Let me be clear, I know that there are wonderful places and people in heartland america.  Some of what I say is tongue in cheek.  And, I do appreciate some of their issues.  You don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand that retreating industries makes it tough for some people.  I know that there are other economic issues.  Still, economic troubles do not excuse dumb racism and xenophobia.  Which seem to have a solid foothold in these places.  I have less empathy for the social issues, that are issues because of intolerance.  I don't have any enemies.  Anyway, i've gone long enough here.  I still like you MT and Blag too. 

Again, we have two primary cultures in this country and they're becoming less and less compatible. I don't think a powerful central government is the most humane way to run a society like ours. This is only going to get worse.  Thankfully, at least we don't need corporate media anymore. 

[Thomas]

Judging by the dialogue in here, with people generalizing groups of people into a single group, for the purposes of making it easier to hate and disregard. Let's make no mistake. Trump and his henchmen could be dragged into the street today and shot and will have already won. There is no political ideology that can justify these kind of feelings and emotions,.

[mtangelsfan]

1 hour ago, UndertheHalo said:

and your persona is a guy who refuses to accept that this country has a real problem with actual bigots.  Moreover, those people like the president exactly because of the terrible things that he says and proposes.  Not in spite of it.  Which confirms their bigotry.  And i've got news for your MT.  You're always so quick to talk about what liberals hate.  You ooze plenty of the contempt for progressives. I mean look at your post.  What do you know about me ? You know i'm an Angels fan and that I tilt left politically.  Those things aside, you have NO IDEA what I do or who I am and you're so confident that my ass would be "worked off".  Who the hell are you to tell me that ?  You saying that screams an outrageous superiority complex that ironically seems to trouble you so much about me.  Even though, i have never questioned anyones work ethic on here.  Last time I checked, being a rancher isn't being a slave.  Those people choose that work and life style.  Presumably, they enjoy it.  Also, a cursory google search indicates that they make a pretty decent living. 

You're right that I don't wake up at the crack of dawn to feed animals or whatever.  I'm sorry.  A ranchers lifestyle doesn't give them superior moral fiber to me.  Which is something you seem convinced of.  I know and appreciate that its hard work.  I know and appreciate its important work.  Thats great,  Theres lots of hard and important work in many fields and industries.  I respect the work and lifestyle  So, while you preach to me about being arrogant and judgy maybe you should look in the mirror. 

And I think you maybe lack an appreciation for the type of labor that many immigrants (particularly latino) are involved in and what they are compensated (not a lot).  So i'm not backing off that comment.  They work as hard as anyone else.  I think they deserve at least the dignity of not being a harassed by a racist prick chief executive. 

Let me be clear, I know that there are wonderful places and people in heartland america.  Some of what I say is tongue in cheek.  And, I do appreciate some of their issues.  You don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand that retreating industries makes it tough for some people.  I know that there are other economic issues.  Still, economic troubles do not excuse dumb racism and xenophobia.  Which seem to have a solid foothold in these places.  I have less empathy for the social issues, that are issues because of intolerance.  I don't have any enemies.  Anyway, i've gone long enough here.  I still like you MT and Blag too. 

I wasn't saying they were superior, just that there are plenty of folks out there "willing to do the same work immigrants do", which was your point.  I certainly don't do that work and they would work my ass off.  So I certainly don't feel superior.  I am not a wall guy, I am not a totally closed border guy.  I think you will see that in the TPS thread I feel the El Salvadorians are getting a raw deal.    

I have also never argued that there isn't plenty of bigotry out there.  I have just argued that it isn't confined to white people.

By the way, growing up in California, I know first hand the work that Latinos do and how hard many of them work.  So I don't fit into the box you have put me in.  

Just remember that the insults came from you.

[well_red]

29 minutes ago, Adam said:

I don't think a powerful central government is the most humane way to run a society like ours. 

I'm as liberal as they come and I agree wholeheartedly with this.  State and local government should play a larger role in our lives, the massive federal government is evidently now unable to represent constituents, campaign donors, and the parties,  and do any actual meaningful legislation.  The country is big and diverse and the current political system is deadlocked and driving a wedge through the US, maybe time to accept regional differences and stop fighting for the moral high ground.  

[red321]

16 hours ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

Oh i'm sorry I thought you'd be proud of the SJW tag, considering social justice is what you're fighting for, correct? I was unaware you'd view it as an insult, my apologies.

If I said I was shocked that you glaringly missed the point...again...I'd be lying.

 

[Make Angels Great Again]

1 minute ago, red321 said:

If I said I was shocked that you glaringly missed the point...again...I'd be lying.

 

 

I like how you conveniently ignored the rest of my post which proves illegal immigrants commit crimes at a high rate.

[tennischmp]

11 minutes ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

 

I like how you conveniently ignored the rest of my post which proves illegal immigrants commit crimes at a high rate.

Why are you talking about illegal immigrants when this whole fiasco is about the legal immigrants? 

[RallyMo]

11 hours ago, LHalo said:

So Trump says “Why are we having all these people from shithole countries come here?" and I'm supposed to be outraged?

What if I agree?

I'd like to ask you a question...

What country did your ancestors emigrate from to settle in the United States?

[Make Angels Great Again]

1 minute ago, tennischmp said:

Why are you talking about illegal immigrants when this whole fiasco is about the legal immigrants? 

 

If you go back a couple pages the conversation was shifting around a bit around different topics.

That tends to happen on these boards a lot. We all have A.D.D. when it comes to staying on topic around here.

[Amazing Larry]

11 minutes ago, RallyMo said:

I'd like to ask you a question...

What country did your ancestors emigrate from to settle in the United States?

Ireland, Mexico, England

I know where you're going with this and I don't care.

[krAbs]

23 minutes ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

 

I like how you conveniently ignored the rest of my post which proves illegal immigrants commit crimes at a high rate.

That's true (as far as I can tell), but its mostly due to immigration related crimes. Native citizens are far more likely to commit violent crimes.

[the dude abides]

3 minutes ago, LHalo said:

Ireland, Mexico, England

I know where you're going with this and I don't care.

Still dazed by this revelation, a year after the fact.

[Make Angels Great Again]

6 minutes ago, krAbs said:

That's true (as far as I can tell), but its mostly due to immigration related crimes. Native citizens are far more likely to commit violent crimes.

 

The data from the source I provided says otherwise:

"Out of all of the arrests, 12 percent were for violent crimes such as murder, robbery, assault and sex-related crimes; 15 percent were for burglary, larceny, theft and property damage; 24 percent were for drug offenses; and the remaining offenses were for DUI, fraud, forgery, counterfeiting, weapons, immigration, and obstruction of justice."

"The 2011 GAO report wasn’t much different. It looked at 251,000 criminal aliens in federal, state, and local prisons and jails. Those aliens were arrested nearly 1.7 million times for close to three million criminal offenses. Sixty-eight percent of those in federal prison and 66 percent of those in state prisons were from Mexico. Their offenses ranged from homicide and kidnapping to drugs, burglary, and larceny."

[krAbs]

4 minutes ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

 

The data from the source I provided says otherwise:

"Out of all of the arrests, 12 percent were for violent crimes such as murder, robbery, assault and sex-related crimes; 15 percent were for burglary, larceny, theft and property damage; 24 percent were for drug offenses; and the remaining offenses were for DUI, fraud, forgery, counterfeiting, weapons, immigration, and obstruction of justice."

"The 2011 GAO report wasn’t much different. It looked at 251,000 criminal aliens in federal, state, and local prisons and jails. Those aliens were arrested nearly 1.7 million times for close to three million criminal offenses. Sixty-eight percent of those in federal prison and 66 percent of those in state prisons were from Mexico. Their offenses ranged from homicide and kidnapping to drugs, burglary, and larceny."

Sorry, I should have said "largely" (about 1/3rd) instead of "mostly" (over 50%). Though, technically I meant that the crime rate is mostly a result of immigration related offences, not that most of the crime is immigration related offences.

In an effort to disprove myself, I'm stumbling on a surprising amount of conflicting statistics. I suspect that there is some data slicing going on here (I know a lot of statistics will look at federal jails only, which is a pretty bad sample. Other ones look at certain age groups, or certain types of crime - even with that though, at first glance there appears to be conflicts. Possible that different places are looking at studies done in different years, and we have had some interesting quick demographic changes? I'll try to provide more detail later today...).

[Blarg]

6 hours ago, arch stanton said:

So what it boils down to is that it’s the character of the immigrant and not the country of origin that matters? Both sides might want to consider that

Clean peanuts in a mountain of dung. Maybe some of them can pitch? 

[Blarg]

45 minutes ago, LHalo said:

Ireland, Mexico, England

I know where you're going with this and I don't care.