Trumped

[nate]

Just now, Thomas said:

I don't think your description is exactly apt for Newton.

That he was labelled a heretic or that gravity is not an important discovery?

[Thomas]

Just now, nate said:

That he was labelled a heretic or that gravity is not an important discovery?

Bullied by the church
Work not accepted by the mainstream
Life ruined by the church

They built a monument to him in Westminster Abbey right after this death. He and the Anglican church weren't BFFs but c'mon now.

[nate]

Five years later, but I will accept that he was the most accepted by the church out of that group.

They did work to discredit him.

[Adam]

17 minutes ago, nate said:

They are scientists that have significantly contributed to what we know about the world and our health, two of them literally saving thousands if not millions of lives.

They were also all labeled as heretics because their research was deemed... well heresy.  They all died after being bullied and having their lives ruined by the church.  It took decades or even more than 100 years before their research was accepted into the main stream because of this.

In other words the church set back the progress of humans a significant amount because they were afraid that scientific research would offend their god or prove that they are full of shit.

I don't think any rational person would disagree with this. And I actually agree with you about a great many religious people. But they're not all how you paint them. We have to assess people as individuals or we'll continue to end up with Trumps and Bernies rising to forefront. 

[nate]

Just now, Adam said:

I don't think any rational person would disagree with this. And I actually agree with you about a great many religious people. But they're not all how you paint them. We have to assess people as individuals or we'll continue to end up with Trumps and Bernies rising to forefront. 

Yeah but the thing is, a herd mentality is often what the result is.

Another example is what happens today or recently with things like gay marriage, embryonic stem cell research, climate science, etc.

[Adam]

Just now, nate said:

Yeah but the thing is, a herd mentality is often what the result is.

Another example is what happens today or recently with things like gay marriage, embryonic stem cell research, climate science, etc.

And I stand with you condemning herd mentality. My 30 serious posts on this board are all condemning tribalism. And there are plenty of people who feel the same way with various worldviews. 

[nate]

Which is why political parties are bs and shouldn't exist

[Thomas]

7 minutes ago, nate said:

They did work to discredit him.

Not as much as some of his fellow colleagues. Fragile egos and such.

[Adam]

34 minutes ago, nate said:

Which is why political parties are bs and shouldn't exist

Be an interesting study but I'd imagine if you took a group of people and secluded them somewhere for a lengthy amount of time the vast majority of people would assimilated into two tribes. 

[nate]

Just now, Adam said:

Be an interesting study but I'd imagine if you took a group of people and secluded them somewhere were a lengthy amount of time the vast majority of people would assimilated into two tribes. 

They mostly exist for monetary reasons.

Without political parties you would have candidates with much more diverse political views.

[Blarg]

8 minutes ago, nate said:

They are scientists that have significantly contributed to what we know about the world and our health, two of them literally saving thousands if not millions of lives.

They were also all labeled as heretics because their research was deemed... well heresy.  They all died after being bullied and having their lives ruined by the church.  It took decades or even more than 100 years before their research was accepted into the main stream because of this.

In other words the church set back the progress of humans a significant amount because they were afraid that scientific research would offend their god or prove that they are full of shit.

Oh for fucks sake Nate, Sir Issac Newton wasn't called Sir because it was formality, he was knighted by the Queen of England and lived a very properous life. He was the President of the Royal Society, all of Europe came to his doorstep to learn. Buried in Westminster Abbey with royalty.

Darwin's Origin of the Species made him a rich man and received the Royal Medal for the most important contributions to the advancement of natural knowledge. He was Secretary of the Geological Society. Buried in Westminster Abbey close to Sir Issac Newton.

Sammelweis stumbled into germ theorey before germs had been indentifiable. It wasn't until long after his death Louis Pastuer identified germs in a microscope to verify Sammelweis theory of curupt tissue from cader handling causing infection in maternity wards. There was no religious push back to his theories and practices of sterile procedures, it was internally in the medical field that hadn't advanced. He eventually had a nervous breakdown and was institutionalised where he ironicly died of infection not by religious persecution.

Wegener's Continental Drift Theory met speculation in the Geology world and had multiple flaws that were later revised into what now is recognized as how the continents divided. No one attempted to burn him at the stake.

The only scientist that faced imminent harm from a religious entity was Galileo around 1600 and even at that worst was house arrest. The concept of the earth being the center of the universe was not ascribed to the Church but to Aristotle, a Greek philosopher. The mandate from the Cardinal was for Galileo to prove his theory, not just make shit up like he did with tides. But long before Galileo the Pope used Copernicus theory of planitary movement and heliocentrism to revise the calendar. Later Galileo muddied the waters, pissed off the Cardinal and got Copernicus work banned. Good job, genius, way to reverse scientific advancement. He even put himself in disfavor with the Pope who was on board with him arguing the pros and cons of geocentrism and heliocentrism until he made the Pope look like a simpleton.

So of your examples only one suffered any religious persecution and that was because he was an arrogant fool. His work still lived on but because of his inability to read the political climate, Galileo pushed the world back instead of forwards. 

 

[nate]

Lol, you completely minimized it.  As always.  Go back to your racist POS President, thanks.

[Tank]

6 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

Lol they’re talking about maybe sending this dumb fucker to Guantanamo.  I mean who gives a shit right but could they be any more dramatic.  

wait, i thought obama closed gitmo years ago.

 

hi glen!

[Tank]

3 hours ago, nate said:

What do you know about Isaac Newton, Galileo, Charles Darwin, Ignaz Sammelweis, and Alfred Wegener

who are five people who have never been in my kitchen, alex.

[red321]

2 minutes ago, Tank said:

who are five people who have never been in my kitchen, alex.

Nice pull...one of my favorite episodes

[Tank]

4 minutes ago, red321 said:

Nice pull...one of my favorite episodes

yeah, some pretty brilliant work on that one.

poor cliffy.

[Blarg]

23 minutes ago, nate said:

Lol, you completely minimized it.  As always.  Go back to your racist POS President, thanks.

Minimized what? Science has always pushed forward regardless of societal evolution. But of the scientists you mentioned only one had any constraints leveled against him by the church. The rest were free to work in the manor they felt fit and were supported by their governments while also in a tug of war with the other scientist of their day as to who had the complete theory of what. Nothing has changed over the centuries. If you want to go with the side shows of say the Scopes Monkey Trials, feel free but it never hindered the advancement of evolutionary science. 

[nate]

6 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Minimized what? Science has always pushed forward regardless of societal evolution. But of the scientists you mentioned only one had any constraints leveled against him by the church. The rest were free to work in the manor they felt fit and were supported by their governments while also in a tug of war with the other scientist of their day as to who had the complete theory of what. Nothing has changed over the centuries. If you want to go with the side shows of say the Scopes Monkey Trials, feel free but it never hindered the advancement of evolutionary science. 

The sooner it is accepted by society the sooner it progresses forward.  When the church can put a stop to it then that stops it.  Especially when people are afraid of the church

Edited November 1, 2017 by nate

[Blarg]

Again, since Galileo the "Church" hasn't stopped anything. And even at that the church didn't stop Galileo, they just censored his work but never prevented him from continuing on. You've created this fanciful world of the Spanish Inquisition that permeates after the 17th century. The "Church" ceased to be a controlling factor in scientific discovery at that point. 

[nate]

2 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Again, since Galileo the "Church" hasn't stopped anything. And even at that the church didn't stop Galileo, they just censored his work but never prevented him from continuing on. You've created this fanciful world of the Spanish Inquisition that permeates after the 17th century. The "Church" ceased to be a controlling factor in scientific discovery at that point. 

Galileo's findings weren't believed for many decades after he died.

And your EPA chief Pruitt just used the bible to say that scientists should not be allowed to advise the EPA.  Few years after the 1700s.

[Blarg]

Not believed by whom? Maybe not the local derp that did his prayers and pitched his last coin into the collection plate but the learned men of the time certainly were followers and students. 

Pruitt is an ass, so? 

So are surgeons cranking out Ze people that 50% try to commit suicide in five years. 

Exciting times. 

[Lou]

On October 31, 2017 at 1:26 PM, nate said:

https://thinkprogress.org/trumps-beloved-alma-mater-evicerates-his-tax-plan-db02ccbc5c26/

 

That's obviously because there won't be any further tax reform after Trump leaves office

[Lou]

11 hours ago, nate said:

I would like to point out that after a man gunned down more than 50 people all the Ts & Ps people said "Now is not the time to talk about gun control" but literally the day after a man mowed down 8 with a truck the admin has come out to talk about immigration.

And all the libs responded with:"if not now, when? This is the perfect time to talk about it" 

so which is it? 

 

Pssst   both sides are hypocrites. Yes, even the lefties 

[Lou]

4 hours ago, nate said:

Which is why political parties are bs and shouldn't exist

If you truly believe this, why don't you ever slam the dems? 

[nate]

Just now, Lou said:

If you truly believe this, why don't you ever slam the dems? 

are you new here?  i have frequently

do you think i am a dem?  i have voted for president 5 times.  3 republican and 2 libertarian.