Trumped

[mtangelsfan]

Just now, nate said:

Perfect example of only being Christian when it is convenient.

Huh?

[nate]

Beyond that, other than talking about Jesus a lot and suppressing the rights of gays and women, I don't see how R's represent what you call Chirstianity anyway.

Banning people who need our help from the country?  Taking away healthcare from children and people in need?  Treating minorities like dirt?  Corrupting the system so the vote is always in their favor?  And on and on.

[UndertheHalo]

1 hour ago, mtangelsfan said:

Sorry if we all don't fit into the little box you and under the halo want to put us all into.  Bottom line is that we are no more singular than any other group.  It  is just that they feel they have to vote for someone and the someone that usually comes closest to their beliefs normally has an R after their name.  Doesn't mean they agree with most or even half of what they think, just closer than most d's.

You're so defensive about this . I am not trying to put christians into any kind of box.  In fact I think I'm pretty careful to note that not all or even most Christians think any one particular way.  

Im pointing out a very real and sizable group that exists in the Christian community in this country.  Christian Zionists absolutely inform their political positions with theological beliefs revolving around their interpretation of end times scripture.  Based on my experience talking to you on this forum.  I don't think you fall into that crowd.  If I'm wrong and you do. You're entitled to your opinion.  

[mtangelsfan]

Just now, nate said:

Beyond that, other than talking about Jesus a lot and suppressing the rights of gays and women, I don't see how R's represent what you call Chirstianity anyway.

Banning people who need our help from the country?  Taking away healthcare from children and people in need?  Treating minorities like dirt?  Corrupting the system so the vote is always in their favor?  And on and on.

Personally, I agree that they do not represent Christianity.  None do.  I could answer you again on this subject but we have gone over this before.  

[UndertheHalo]

5 minutes ago, nate said:

Beyond that, other than talking about Jesus a lot and suppressing the rights of gays and women, I don't see how R's represent what you call Chirstianity anyway.

Banning people who need our help from the country?  Taking away healthcare from children and people in need?  Treating minorities like dirt?  Corrupting the system so the vote is always in their favor?  And on and on.

And I grew up a Catholic went to catholic school etc.  I spent TONS of time on bible study and the such.  As far as im concerned Conservtive politics in this country is the utter antithesis of the teachings of Jesus Christ.  For the reasons Nate mentions here and more.  

But for some evangelicals conservatives they seems to fixate on one issue.  Israel (democrats aren't even bad to Israel) abortion etc.  And comepletely disregard all other issues.  

It makes no sense to me personally. 

Edited October 13, 2017 by UndertheHalo

[mtangelsfan]

1 minute ago, UndertheHalo said:

You're so defensive about this . I am not trying to put christians into any kind of box.  In fact I think I'm pretty careful to note that not all or even most Christians think any one particular way.  

Im pointing out a very real and sizable group that exists in the Christian community in this country.  Christian Zionists absolutely inform their political positions with theological beliefs revolving around their interpretation of end times scripture.  Based on my experience talking to you on this forum.  I don't think you fall into that crowd.  If I'm wrong and you do. You're entitled to your opinion.  

Except your understanding makes the creation the driver, not the creator.

Are there some that believe what they do will affect what happens?  Maybe, but most of us understand that God is the driver of that and there isn't anything we can do to alter it.

 

[UndertheHalo]

7 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

Except your understanding makes the creation the driver, not the creator.

Are there some that believe what they do will affect what happens?  Maybe, but most of us understand that God is the driver of that and there isn't anything we can do to alter it.

 

If that's the case and nothing you do makes a difference why bother with politics at all ?

[mtangelsfan]

Talking about end times stuff.  I also believe The Church worries too much about what the government does or doesn't do.  

[Spirit]

3 hours ago, Adam said:

Or because it's the only civilized society in that part of the world. 

 

Shhhhh ... you're ruining UndertheHalo's Armageddon porn fantasy. 

 

 

[UndertheHalo]

1 hour ago, mtangelsfan said:

Talking about end times stuff.  I also believe The Church worries too much about what the government does or doesn't do.  

As an interesting fun fact.  There is a wahabi(extremely fundamentalist interpretation) Islamic sect in Saudi Arabia that refuses to participate in any political activity because it rejects any form of government beyond exactly  literal qaranic governance.  They also believe that God controls everything and anything they do other then letting the world happen is a sin.  So they don't do anything. 

Edited October 13, 2017 by UndertheHalo

[nate]

50 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

Personally, I agree that they do not represent Christianity.  None do.  I could answer you again on this subject but we have gone over this before.  

Soooo... abortion?

The lives of unborn fetuses > children and poor people?

[nate]

50 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

And I grew up a Catholic went to catholic school etc.  I spent TONS of time on bible study and the such.  As far as im concerned Conservtive politics in this country is the utter antithesis of the teachings of Jesus Christ.  For the reasons Nate mentions here and more.  

But for some evangelicals conservatives they seems to fixate on one issue.  Israel (democrats aren't even bad to Israel) abortion etc.  And comepletely disregard all other issues.  

It makes no sense to me personally. 

Yeah, from what I understand, Christians are supposed to be about compassion and help those in need.

Republicans are just about ultra rich white people and to hell with those in need.

[UndertheHalo]

9 minutes ago, Geoff said:

 

Shhhhh ... you're ruining UndertheHalo's Armageddon porn fantasy. 

 

 

It's not a fantasy and we can have a debate about Israel in another thread. 

[Spirit]

Fair enough.  I can respect that your Armageddon porn fantasy is not a fantasy. 

 

 

[Adam]

4 minutes ago, nate said:

Yeah, from what I understand, Christians are supposed to be about compassion and help those in need.

Republicans are just about ultra rich white people and to hell with those in need.

Looks like they are.

https://www.philanthropy.com/article/Religious-Americans-Give-More/153973

 

 

[UndertheHalo]

16 minutes ago, nate said:

Yeah, from what I understand, Christians are supposed to be about compassion and help those in need.

Republicans are just about ultra rich white people and to hell with those in need.

Love of the poor is a specific and major theme.

I have had evangelicals try and use the feeding the multitude story as example of why Jesus would oppose any kind of welfare.  Obviously any normal attempt to draw an understanding from that story would not find opposition to welfare.  That's what people do though.  Regardless of religion they twist things no matter how grotesquely to suit their purpose.

 

Edited October 13, 2017 by UndertheHalo

[Adam]

Why do we need an oppressive State to be compassionate and helpful? 

[UndertheHalo]

16 minutes ago, Adam said:

Looks like they are.

https://www.philanthropy.com/article/Religious-Americans-Give-More/153973

 

 

ill just point out that the article says 5 major religions were polled.

also, what I would draw from that is that generally Americans are generous.  Even the non religious people donated at a decent clip.

Edited October 13, 2017 by UndertheHalo

[nate]

13 minutes ago, Adam said:

Why do we need an oppressive State to be compassionate and helpful? 

How is oppressing peoples rights compassionate?

[Adam]

It’s not. But that is what the State does

[nate]

Plus the whole idea that Rs are more hands off is a fallacy anyway.  They are just controlling (and excessive spenders) in other ways.

[UndertheHalo]

6 minutes ago, Adam said:

It’s not. But that is what the State does

Some would argue that state control is necessary to protect everyone's rights because the community left on its own will fuck over smaller groups.  Historically this the way it goes.  Actually. 

Edited October 13, 2017 by UndertheHalo

[Adam]

That is the only purpose it should serve. Wish it would

[UndertheHalo]

Just now, Adam said:

That is the only purpose it should serve. Wish it would

Yes.  Governance is complicated. 

[Adam]

9 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Yes.  Governance is complicated. 

Not really.

 

what is government? Authority. Who is attracted to authority? Narcissists, the greedy, the self-righteous. What do those people typically do? Bad things.