Trumped

[Glen]

Remember when the Republicans bitched about Obama blaming Bush for everything? Hillary lost to Trump and eight months after the election they still can't stop bringing her up.

Buncha goddamned hypocrites if you ask me.

[mtangelsfan]

Just now, Glen said:

Remember when the Republicans bitched about Obama blaming Bush for everything? Hillary lost to Trump and eight months after the election they still can't stop bringing her up.

Buncha goddamned hypocrites if you ask me.

And before that the dems blamed W, for everything.

We are all hypocrites.  I laugh at the idea of some sort of superiority.

[Glen]

If only there was a Hillary thread where Blarg could post stuff like that, instead of in a Trump thread as a distraction. Or some sort of political catch-all thread, even.

Edited July 12, 2017 by Glen

[mtangelsfan]

Agreed, but when hypocrites call other people hypocrites....................................

[arch stanton]

9 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

Agreed, but when hypocrites call other people hypocrites....................................

The point is still valid. If someone wants to try to deflect their hypocrisy by attacking the attacker now he's a hypocrite and a deflector which is just short of politician

[mtangelsfan]

Why do you think that we have the politicians we have?

Because they are a mirror of us.  We make excuses, we shift blame, we blindly follow our "side".

The point is valid, but it has been the same point since forever.

[Glen]

I freely admit to my hypocrisy and I agree to some extent with what MT is saying. We all have our biases.

[mtangelsfan]

Maybe what this cast of characters have done ends up being so loathsome we do say "enough".

It happened before and we got Carter, who I believe was the nicest human being to be president.  But not very effective.

I don't know what the answer is.

[Adam]

I agree that you all are hypocrites

[Blarg]

23 minutes ago, Glen said:

Remember when the Republicans bitched about Obama blaming Bush for everything? Hillary lost to Trump and eight months after the election they still can't stop bringing her up.

Buncha goddamned hypocrites if you ask me.

Glen, if she didn't insert herself into the subject by her own actions we would have nothing to say. Bush didn't lose an election, he did his two terms, retired and hasn't been in the news. Hillary never won and yet makes sure she is heard non stop. 

So if she shut her yap we wouldn't bring up all the shady shit she did during the election while blaming everyone for why she lost. And she was involved in a higher level of shady shit than Trump by fixing the Democratic nomination. It wasn't some outside source trying to fix a nomination, it was her. Right on her fucking doorstep. 

So excuse us for pointing out the truth you so don't want to hear.

[red321]

So, back to the current issue.

Members of the Trump campaign have admitted to knowingly taking a meeting with the purpose of colluding with a foreign adversary, and when you start to go back and look at what has transpired through that prism:

* Multiple instances of campaign members "forgetting" about meetings with Russian foreign officials and repeated denials they even met with Russian officials only to have to correct themselves at a later dater

* Firing of Comey to stop the investigation

* Kushner/Flynn trying to setup backchannel communications

* Changes in the Republican platform to be more Russian neutral

* Reports that other Republican campaigns asked and received Democratic voter information/turnout strategies from the Russian hackers

* Targeted fake news/ads by Russian entities (http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article160803619.html has an article on this, this morning...how a Kushner owned company is being investigated for providing demographic/targeting data)

And then you think about Trump, could be Russia...China...400lb fat ass on his mom's couch...pushing doubt of the reports all the while knowing Russia was working on his behalf (and let's not pretend Trump had no idea this was going on). He has repeatedly tried to cast doubt on Russia being involved in trying to swing the election, and yet his own campaign staff met with them with that express purpose.

And if your defense is...well, the contacts I went to meet with didn't have the information I wanted so it's all cool....

At this point Congress needs to do it's job and put country before party. Mueller is running a criminal investigation, but Congress needs to also open up an independent investigation so that we all understand what the hell has transpired and just how compromised this administration is.

 

 

 

 

[mtangelsfan]

It is looking really bad.  I hope Mueller does his job well.

[red321]

We've moved beyond Mueller, he should absolutely continue with his criminal investigation...but I think this demands Congress has an independent commission investigating the election as a whole. It's likely that there are things we should know, that don't fall into the category of being illegal, or at least it's a legal gray area that Mueller may decide not to pursue...but that doesn't mean the American people would stand for it or that it doesn't compromise the current administration.

[Blarg]

I'm sure the den of thieves will do an excellent job finding nothing but spend 10 million dollars in taxpayer money in their pursuit of the truth.

[Thomas]

Is there even the remotest indication that anyone has moved from the respective political trench? At what point do we stop assuming that this wave of non-partisan opposition is going to sweep the administration out?

[red321]

And what do you believe should be the next step when it comes to the Trump campaign colluding with the Russians?

[Lou]

I find it funny how it's always the Cons that have to put country above party. 

I've never heard any lib here state that the Dems need to do this. 

[mtangelsfan]

21 minutes ago, red321 said:

We've moved beyond Mueller, he should absolutely continue with his criminal investigation...but I think this demands Congress has an independent commission investigating the election as a whole. It's likely that there are things we should know, that don't fall into the category of being illegal, or at least it's a legal gray area that Mueller may decide not to pursue...but that doesn't mean the American people would stand for it or that it doesn't compromise the current administration.

I trust Mueller way more than Congress.

[red321]

1 minute ago, mtangelsfan said:

I trust Mueller way more than Congress.

I don't disagree with you...I just think there are issues Mueller can't/won't investigate because they aren't legal issues that a Congressional committee would be better suited to review. Pollyanish view that at some point a majority of members of Congress would decide to do their duty.

[Thomas]

5 minutes ago, red321 said:

And what do you believe should be the next step when it comes to the Trump campaign colluding with the Russians?

1. Build an airtight case. This won't be easy with the power of the administration and congress working against that let alone foreign powers.
2. Lower the amount of noise. The opposition sounds like an angry mob. This is likely because the opposition is an angry mob. It muddles the message. The right understands this and keeps poking the angry mob as a result. But the voice must be single coherent message.
3. The whole "If you aren't against Trump by now then fuck you" needs to die a quick painful death. The left needs to actually make an effort to sell this. This isn't going to be settled by fact. This whole mess is political and will only be sold politically. No lame excuses about how the other side won't listen. I don't put up with that shit from my kids. I'm sure as hell not going to put up with it from grown men and women. You want to save the country, suck it up and do it.The opposition has to convince many on the other side that this transcends politics and nobody on the right appears to be stepping up to do this. But so far from the opposition all I see are a bunch of angry children who want it their way.
4. As the first three seem..unlikely the alternative is obvious. Win back both houses in 2018. But if the opposition can't do it now, when the hell are they EVER going to do it?

[Spirit]

31 minutes ago, red321 said:

We've moved beyond Mueller, he should absolutely continue with his criminal investigation...but I think this demands Congress has an independent commission investigating the election as a whole. It's likely that there are things we should know, that don't fall into the category of being illegal, or at least it's a legal gray area that Mueller may decide not to pursue...but that doesn't mean the American people would stand for it or that it doesn't compromise the current administration.

 

If it's not illegal, I'm not sure there's anything that would be uncovered that would move the American people.  Those that love Trump will stand for it.  Those that hate Trump will not stand for it, but they already don't stand for him.  It feels like we need proof of illegal activities to get this guy out of office.  I'm sure that illegal activity is out there and hopefully Mueller uncovers it.

 

 

[Thomas]

1 minute ago, Geoff said:

If it's not illegal, I'm not sure there's anything that would be uncovered that would move the American people.  Those that love Trump will stand for it.  Those that hate Trump will not stand for it, but they already don't stand for him.  It feels like we need proof of illegal activities to get this guy out of office.  I'm sure that illegal activity is out there and hopefully Mueller uncovers it.

Well that's the concise version of my rant.

[Thomas]

4 minutes ago, Thomas said:

 The right understands this and keeps poking the angry mob as a result.

Sometimes more blatantly than others... (geesh)
http://thehill.com/policy/finance/341626-rep-steve-king-build-mexico-border-wall-with-funds-from-planned-parenthood

[mtangelsfan]

King is a moron.

I hate Planned Parenthood but I don't want a wall and I sure as hell would rather pay down the debt of this country with any money we don't give PP.

[Thomas]

3 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

King is a moron.

Just because a politician says something so outlandish doesn't mean it isn't a calculated political decision. The timing is hardly coincidental. Remind the base why they put up with them and Trump, enrage the opposition to continue acting rashly and continue to increase the level of noise.