Trumped

[red321]

3 minutes ago, Jason said:

It's not totally fair to call him minor league because he expressed a unpopular opinion.

Oh...I'm pretty sure people are taking into consideration his entire body of work

[krAbs]

38 minutes ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

 

 

 

Try Dr. Paul R. McHugh, the former psychiatrist-in-chief for Johns Hopkins Hospital

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/johns-hopkins-psychiatrist-transgender-mental-disorder-sex-change

In all fairness, he believes similar things about homosexuality, and also is wrong on a lot of counts. More importantly, he is an isolated case going against a much larger consensus. That doesn't mean he is wrong, but it DOES mean that he has a higher burden of proof.

Also, for the other science claim on here, how weird! Transgenders have a higher rate of suicide? You would almost think the society that surrounds them denies what they feel, and harasses them for their entire life for that feeling. Not saying transgender is real or not, but like...come on. haha

[Thomas]

48 minutes ago, Kevin said:

Minor league poster forum..... not minor league forum. 

Yeah...I know. This is the farm team for Angelswin. But yeah...I was in the show. I was in the show for 21 days once - the 21 greatest days of my life. You know, you never handle your own log-in in the show, somebody else carries your login credentials. It was great. You type on mechanical keyboards and use bluetooth mice for posting, the laptops are like geeked out desktops, the internet connection all have gigabit connections, and the women...well there aren't really any there either.

[Jason]

48 minutes ago, krAbs said:

In all fairness, he believes similar things about homosexuality, and also is wrong on a lot of counts. More importantly, he is an isolated case going against a much larger consensus. That doesn't mean he is wrong, but it DOES mean that he has a higher burden of proof.

Also, for the other science claim on here, how weird! Transgenders have a higher rate of suicide? You would almost think the society that surrounds them denies what they feel, and harasses them for their entire life for that feeling. Not saying transgender is real or not, but like...come on. haha

I can see a small boost to the suicide numbers because of that but that doesn't explain the massive increase

[Inside Pitch]

8 minutes ago, Jason said:

I can see a small boost to the suicide numbers because of that but that doesn't explain the massive increase

Might be the hormone therapy that comes with transitioning.  Everyone else gets to learn how to adjust to the onset of hormones in their teens -- it's got to be a lot harder to do a 180 as a full grown adult and not have it kick you in the gut in some way..

To that end.  Remember Mike Penner?  LA Timers..    This article covers his story and suicide.. http://www.laweekly.com/news/mike-penner-christine-daniels-a-tragic-love-story-2166467

[krAbs]

12 minutes ago, Jason said:

I can see a small boost to the suicide numbers because of that but that doesn't explain the massive increase

Doesn't it though? People are 2-9 (yikes on that range) time more likely to consider suicide if they have just been bullied. But this is really small stuff compared to what trans people deal with. 82% of trans kids feel unsafe at school, 44% have been physically abused, about about a third of the abuse that was reported to schools was ignored. It would be shocking if there WASN'T a dramatic increase in suicide among a group like this. The link you posted was talking specifically about adults, but honestly, I would be surprised if the situation was dramatically better for them.

[Kevin]

48 minutes ago, Thomas said:

Yeah...I know. This is the farm team for Angelswin. But yeah...I was in the show. I was in the show for 21 days once - the 21 greatest days of my life. You know, you never handle your own log-in in the show, somebody else carries your login credentials. It was great. You type on mechanical keyboards and use bluetooth mice for posting, the laptops are like geeked out desktops, the internet connection all have gigabit connections, and the women...well there aren't really any there either.

MAGA but could be there too but he doesn't give a fuck.

[Jason]

15 minutes ago, krAbs said:

Doesn't it though? People are 2-9 (yikes on that range) time more likely to consider suicide if they have just been bullied. But this is really small stuff compared to what trans people deal with. 82% of trans kids feel unsafe at school, 44% have been physically abused, about about a third of the abuse that was reported to schools was ignored. It would be shocking if there WASN'T a dramatic increase in suicide among a group like this. The link you posted was talking specifically about adults, but honestly, I would be surprised if the situation was dramatically better for them.

http://students.com.miami.edu/netreporting/?page_id=1285

Many minorities are disenfranchised and deal with negative societal pressures but their rates are really low. I honestly believe there are some underlying psychological issues that transgender people are dealing with that is unique to them. Maybe calling them mentally ill is bit misleading.

[krAbs]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

http://students.com.miami.edu/netreporting/?page_id=1285

Many minorities are disenfranchised and deal with negative societal pressures but their rates are really low. I honestly believe there are some underlying psychological issues that transgender people are dealing with that is unique to them. Maybe calling them mentally ill is bit misleading.

That's interesting, but still pretty far from proof. You would have to isolate cultural influences to even begin this argument. In general, "group x handled this well, so the fact that group y isn't means they have deep psychological issues bordering on a mental disorder" strikes me as a pretty weak argument, you know?

 

Maybe there are underlying psychological issues. But its a huge stretch to say that suicides are proof for this, especially when there is a much simpler explanation.

[Tank]

5 hours ago, red321 said:

Rand corporation did a study on this in 2016...they estimate 1500-6600 or so.

They also estimate financial impacts (2.4 to 8.4 million annually) and other impacts.

http://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR1530.html

shocking that the libs at ABC would inflate (-- insert viagra joke here --) the numbers.

[Jason]

9 minutes ago, krAbs said:

That's interesting, but still pretty far from proof. You would have to isolate cultural influences to even begin this argument. In general, "group x handled this well, so the fact that group y isn't means they have deep psychological issues bordering on a mental disorder" strikes me as a pretty weak argument, you know?

 

Maybe there are underlying psychological issues. But its a huge stretch to say that suicides are proof for this, especially when there is a much simpler explanation.

That's all I'm saying but suicide can be linked to mental health problems.  

[krAbs]

Just now, Jason said:

That's all I'm saying but suicide can be linked to mental health problems.  

Sure. But, I don't think it is either necessary of sufficient proof of those mental health problems. I would go further to say that it is unlikely that they are because of mental health problems, but I don't have great evidence of a claim THAT strong either.

[UndertheHalo]

i think that there is a pretty significant difference between a kid with transgender or sexual orientation issues and minority groups. 

It would seem to be that the latter would be a lot tougher to deal with.  I'm sure theres a lot of pretty painful isolation associated with it.  I mean, just a little bit of empathy would make that easy to understand.  Minority kids have their community, i dont think theres a clear analog for LGBT youth.  Severe depression and anxiety as a result of their issues would seem to me to be absolute clear impetus for suicide.

Theres a difference between restricting people due to being transgender, and declining to fund their life style choice (transitioning) via elective surgery.  I doubt a compelling case can be made that transgender people should be out right banned.  At the same time its not unreasonable to restrict funding for any kind of elective surgery.  We shouldn't discriminate and single people out.  As I understand it, it seems wrong to expel transgender people from the military and also to ban them.  That said, i don't think its a bad idea to fund mental health support (counseling, support groups) for these people.  Whether they're regular people or military.  I'm a big believer that just having access to a non hostile/sympathetic person is extremely beneficial.  Sometimes someone just needs to be able to talk.  I'm sure with these kinds of issues, that person may not be accessible in an individuals close social circle.  These individuals may need help finding such an outlet due to the social anxiety associated with their problem.  It seems like the right thing to do to facilitate these needs.

Edited July 27, 2017 by UndertheHalo

[RallyMo]

2 hours ago, Jason said:

http://students.com.miami.edu/netreporting/?page_id=1285

Many minorities are disenfranchised and deal with negative societal pressures but their rates are really low. I honestly believe there are some underlying psychological issues that transgender people are dealing with that is unique to them. Maybe calling them mentally ill is bit misleading.

Dafuq kinda apples to aardvarks comparison is dis?

[Jason]

2 minutes ago, RallyMo said:

Dafuq kinda apples to aardvarks comparison is dis?

The point was made that being mistreated leads to suicide. I don't believe that's the root cause

[UndertheHalo]

Just now, Jason said:

The point was made that being mistreated leads to suicide. I don't believe that's the root cause

No, but I think social isolation, whether it's self imposed or not has a pretty strong correlation. 

[Jason]

Just now, UndertheHalo said:

No, but I think social isolation, whether it's self imposed or not has a pretty strong correlation. 

That very well may be. My only point in this thread is there are mental health issues with trans gender people that are unique to them. These mental health issues are probably the cause of their outrageously high suicide rates. I think they need help and not just tell everyone to deal with them. That won't get them help they need

[UndertheHalo]

14 minutes ago, Jason said:

That very well may be. My only point in this thread is there are mental health issues with trans gender people that are unique to them. These mental health issues are probably the cause of their outrageously high suicide rates. I think they need help and not just tell everyone to deal with them. That won't get them help they need

Sure, but in terms of mental illness it's the depression/anxiety sort which is a consequence of the society we live in.  As opposed to whatever a sociopath deals with. Like I said in my above post.  It seems the right thing to do is to provide mental health assistance for these people.  

Trump is trying to conflate 2 different things.  Elective transition surgery and wherther it should be funded is a different issue from whether these people should be banned. Again, I think it's tough to come up with a compelling argument that banning them provides any real benefit to the military.  

Edited July 27, 2017 by UndertheHalo

[Jason]

I agree

[the dude abides]

MAGA!

 

[mtangelsfan]

24 minutes ago, the dude abides said:

MAGA!

 

I don't agree with Trump on this but this meme proves nothing.

[arch stanton]

8 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

I don't agree with Trump on this but this meme proves nothing.

Sure it does. If the perfectly healthy, "normal" hetero Caucasians won't do the fighting then somebody has to

[mtangelsfan]

9 hours ago, calscuf said:

Look, I think trannies are mixed up, but why hate?  Seriously. 

One word:  Jesus.

There I times I believe that the bar must be the easiest test in the world.  Must be for all the morons in law.

[UndertheHalo]

 

15 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

There I times I believe that the bar must be the easiest test in the world.  Must be for all the morons in law.

Some of the ugliest stuff directed at the LGBT community does seem to be borne out of religion though MT.  Not that every religious person has to answer for that. 

Edited July 27, 2017 by UndertheHalo

[UndertheHalo]

Donald knows how to live among the elites and the peasants !! Man of the people !

 

Edited July 27, 2017 by UndertheHalo