Trumped

[Thomas]

13 minutes ago, Angels#1Fan said:

This wiretap story that Donald "grab them by the pussy" Trump is trying to float (with zero evidence) just goes to show what a real fool Trump really is. Not only is Trump a fool but he obviously doesn't mind illustrating the fact over and over again.

Anyone that has the power of the presidency, has the power of the Justice Dept. behind them who believes the conspiracy nonsense that comes out of Breitbart, doesn't have the necessities required to be the POTUS. And to think that Bannon is the assistant to the president is scary, but not as scary as the Trump apologist that ignore every crazy thing the fool says. The apologist actually think the crazy shit that comes out of Trump is a ploy to distract the public. lol It's not a strategy, he's just nuts!

Trump is a conspiracy theorist that gets his "facts" (like the birther bs, Muslims celebrating in New Jersey on 9/11, and the wiretap bs) from places like Breitbart..Trump doesn't bother with fake news outlets, he gets the real shit from Breitbart. All of these things are what Trump actually believes. I'd hate to think what else is rolling around inside his brain. 

Okay. What is his tell from when he is lying to when he is being sincere? Because you are picking a rather arbitrary line about what he bullshits about and what he sincerely believes.

[Angels#1Fan]

3 minutes ago, Thomas said:

Okay. What is his tell from when he is lying to when he is being sincere? Because you are picking a rather arbitrary line about what he bullshits about and what he sincerely believes.

I've come to the conclusion that Trump is flat out bat shit crazy. I don't say this because of ideological differences I have with him. I base my opinion on the nonsense that comes out of his mouth and keyboard. Further, the crazy shit he says, and the baseless accusations he makes, are NOT a strategy any sane person would implement because it's just plain nuts.

If anyone thinks that the birther bullshit is an arbitrary line, or the fact that Trump thinks he saw Muslims celebrating in New Jersey on 9/11, or any other of the countless times he's uttered irrational thoughts or flat out lies, then there is NOTHING anyone could say that would sway the Trump apologist. 

Sorry but that's my view of his behavior and I believe that it's an accurate characterization that is born out by Trump's own actions and words.

[Thomas]

So 

1 minute ago, Angels#1Fan said:

If anyone thinks that the birther bullshit is an arbitrary line, or the fact that Trump thinks he saw Muslims celebrating in New Jersey on 9/11, or any other of the countless times he's uttered irrational thoughts or flat out lies, then there is NOTHING anyone could say that would sway the Trump apologist. 

Did you even read my post or skim through? Where is your line from when he flat out lies and where he sincerely believes what he says? 

[Angels#1Fan]

1 minute ago, Thomas said:

So 

Did you even read my post or skim through? Where is your line from when he flat out lies and where he sincerely believes what he says? 

Oh I read it..you ask "what his tell is". Well that's pretty easy, when he makes false claims that he is unable to back up, that's his "tell". When he says he saw Muslims celebrating in New Jersey on 9/11 and offered to get the video to prove it but was unable to do so..that's his "tell". Trump is a compulsive liar and I don't think anyone needs to provide a list or rehash the obvious bat shit crazy things he's said and done. 

I hate to break it to you but this isn't a court of law and you aren't directing the prosecution witness cross-examination. I answered the question the way I did because I know that it will only fall on deaf ears to many of the apologist that have been ignoring the obvious about Trump from the beginning. I know my opinion isn't going to change the apologist minds about his compulsions to lie and make shit up..it is what it is. That's my line.

[Thomas]

Just now, Angels#1Fan said:

Oh I read it..you ask "what his tell is". Well that's pretty easy, when he makes false claims that he is unable to back up, that's his "tell". When he says he saw Muslims celebrating in New Jersey on 9/11 and offered to get the video to prove it but was unable to do so..that's his "tell". Trump is a compulsive liar and I don't think anyone needs to provide a list or rehash the obvious bat shit crazy things he's said and done. 

I hate to break it to you but this isn't a court of law and you aren't directing the prosecution witness cross-examination. I answered the question the way I did because I know that it will only fall on deaf ears to many of the apologist that have been ignoring the obvious about Trump from the beginning. I know my opinion isn't going to change the apologist minds about his compulsions to lie and make shit up..it is what it is. That's my line.

You're the one who says he isn't lying 100% of the time. I think he is lying 100% and doing so on purpose to manipulate the different sides. If your replies to me actually had a 25% correlation to what I'm saying that'd be an improvement and I wouldn't have to keep reframing the argument.

[Thomas]

8 minutes ago, Glen said:

He was just being a straight-talker, like Trump.

Don't forget misogynistic like Trump

[Rico]

44 minutes ago, Thomas said:

So 

Did you even read my post or skim through? Where is your line from when he flat out lies and where he sincerely believes what he says? 

The sad thing is he might actually believe all the bullshit he spews.  I'm not sure the POTUS is completely sane.

[Thomas]

5 minutes ago, Rico said:

The sad thing is he might actually believe all the bullshit he spews.  I'm not sure the POTUS is completely sane.

How would that be even possible as he has supported both sides of practically every issue? 

[Angels#1Fan]

1 hour ago, Thomas said:

You're the one who says he isn't lying 100% of the time.

Can you provide a quote from me that says this? 

Did you read what I posted? Because if you had you wouldn't have come to this conclusion.

1 hour ago, Thomas said:

I think he is lying 100% and doing so on purpose to manipulate the different sides.

He may well be due to his strong compulsion to lie, but he's not manipulating anyone except for the apologist that want to hear things like Obama had him wiretaped and he isn't an American etc, etc, etc.

1 hour ago, Thomas said:

If your replies to me actually had a 25% correlation to what I'm saying that'd be an improvement and I wouldn't have to keep reframing the argument.

Look man, for what ever reason you just didn't like the answer I gave..fine..you don't have to like it and as far as reframing the argument goes, there really isn't an argument here because Trump is a liar, you think he lies to manipulate and I think he lies because he's devoid of the ability to process any information that isn't steeped in some conspiracy along with his compulsion to lie. Trump would lie even if the truth sounded better. As to what percentage of lies Trump tells i'm not going to try and handicap that and will leave it to others to make their own decision regarding that. I worry more about having a bat shit crazy president making decisions based on fantasy and conspiracy.

[Ordos]

I'll just leave this here, for anyone unfamiliar.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/here-there-and-everywhere/201701/gaslighting-know-it-and-identify-it-protect-yourself

[Thomas]

2 hours ago, Angels#1Fan said:

All of these things are what Trump actually believes. 

As far as the citation for not lying 100%

[Thomas]

33 minutes ago, Angels#1Fan said:

but he's not manipulating anyone except for the apologist that want to hear things like Obama had him wiretaped and he isn't an American etc, etc, etc

He is manipulating much more than that.  Joe Biden talked recently his regret that Trump got him off the issues and into a tit for tat that benefited Trump.  He goads the left and they respond, naturally, angrily.  This benefits Trump. He gets the media talking about issues he wants instead of things like Russian connections. And he makes supporters all tingly in private places. 

[Thomas]

30 minutes ago, Angels#1Fan said:

I worry more about having a bat shit crazy president making decisions based on fantasy and conspiracy.

Bat shit POTUS bad. 

POTUS pretending to be, even if concurrently being batshit crazy, is worse. 

[Angels#1Fan]

16 minutes ago, Thomas said:

As far as the citation for not lying 100%

I believe I listed 3 things (the birther bs, Muslims celebrating in New Jersey on 9/11, and the wiretap bs ) that I think Trump believes..that would be 100% of those three things.  lol

That's far different from saying " You're the one who says he isn't lying 100% of the time" which I of course didn't say.

Here's the actual quote:

Quote

Trump is a conspiracy theorist that gets his "facts" (like the birther bs, Muslims celebrating in New Jersey on 9/11, and the wiretap bs) from places like Breitbart..Trump doesn't bother with fake news outlets, he gets the real shit from Breitbart. All of these things are what Trump actually believes.

 

[Thomas]

1 minute ago, Angels#1Fan said:

I believe I listed 3 things (the birther bs, Muslims celebrating in New Jersey on 9/11, and the wiretap bs ) that I think Trump believes..that would be 100% of those three things.  lol

That's far different from saying " You're the one who says he isn't lying 100% of the time" which I of course didn't say.

If he believes these then he didn't lie about them. If he lied about them then he doesn't believe them. Which is it? 

[Angels#1Fan]

1 minute ago, Thomas said:

If he believes these then he didn't lie about them. If he lied about them then he doesn't believe them. Which is it? 

He believes his lies.

[Angels#1Fan]

 

Quote

I believe I listed 3 things

 (the birther bs, Muslims celebrating in New Jersey on 9/11, and the wiretap bs ) that I think Trump believes..that would be 100% of those three things.  lol

That's far different from saying " You're the one who says he isn't lying 100% of the time" which I of course didn't say.

6 minutes ago, Thomas said:

If he believes these then he didn't lie about them. If he lied about them then he doesn't believe them. Which is it? 

So, you agree you misquoted me?

 

[Thomas]

1 minute ago, Angels#1Fan said:

He believes his lies.

 

3 minutes ago, Angels#1Fan said:

So, you agree you misquoted me?

No because you just repeated the same assertion above. You assert he believes what he sells.  

I've had the unfortunate pleasure of dealing with gaslighters mentioned in the article above.  They lie about everything. They can't help it. Trump is this in a perfect clinical definition. I still can't believe a majority of white women voted for the slime. Don't believe anything he says and anything you think you know about what he thinks or wants. 

[Angels#1Fan]

1 minute ago, Thomas said:

No because you just repeated the same assertion above. You assert he believes what he sells.  

One can only conclude that Trump believes what he says because he even claims that he has proof of some of these things, (like the Muslim video) proof that he wasn't able to provide. In fact I can't think of a single time that Trump provided any proof to many of his allegations. If he did I missed it. He said he saw on the news Muslims in New Jersey celebrating on 9/11. He believes he saw it, but it simply didn't happen. When questioned about it he doubled down on it and said he would get the video. None exist because he imagined (believed) the whole thing and tried to cover it up with more lies.

[AngelsLakersFan]

Is it not possible for Trump to be crazy and yet still quite intelligent and manipulative?

Some things are clear to me. He tries to appease everyone. This is why he never has any solid concrete policies. 

He will never admit he was wrong, lost, lied, misremembered, has small hands etc. 

He references things he reads on the internet, or saw on tv rather than stuff coming from his advisors.

He is in the Hall of Fame of narcissism.

His antics have the strange knack for overshadowing more serious issues.

It makes sense to me on some level that his elite narcissism has positively impacted his ability to influence others to help him achieve his narcissistic goals. Whether or not that can be considered mental illness is another debate.

[Thomas]

37 minutes ago, Angels#1Fan said:

One can only conclude that Trump believes what he says because he even claims that he has proof of some of these things, (like the Muslim video) proof that he wasn't able to provide. In fact I can't think of a single time that Trump provided any proof to many of his allegations. If he did I missed it. He said he saw on the news Muslims inba New Jersey celebrating on 9/11. He believes he saw it, but it simply didn't happen. When questioned about it he doubled down on it and said he would get the video. None exist because he imagined (believed) the whole thing and tried to cover it up with more lies.

All con-men say they have proof. Abusive partners say they have proof to backup their manipulative lies to defeat the inherent instinct in victims that being in an abusive relationship is not something they want to be in.  When called out on the lying they keep at it until you think you're crazy. Less dire analogy?  Paul Newman's character from Slapshot. 

Seriously read the link posted above. 
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/here-there-and-everywhere/201701/gaslighting-know-it-and-identify-it-protect-yourself

This assumption is dangerous. Trump is behaving like a dictator. Not a crazy person. Not that this is mutually exclusive but 

* Systematic attacks on the media which are working
* Scapegoating vulnerable groups
* Gaslighting
* Questionable foreign ties
* Absurd use of patriotism
* Excessive blaming

Each time he does this he pushes the boundary further and further. He is testing to see how far he can push the lies. In a month what will we be talking about?  Claims that the military is plotting against him and the country? He's already laid the groundwork in attacking the military. Just ask @Glen He's already questioned the loyalty of the intelligence community. Trump, not @Glen!

[Lou]

18 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

 His antics have the strange knack for overshadowing more serious issues.

and those who oppose him, including many in the media, continue to chase the bouncing red dot on the wall like a precious little kitty.  

it's quite remarkable. 

Edited March 5, 2017 by Lou

[Lou]

19 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Is it not possible for Trump to be crazy and yet still quite intelligent and manipulative?

at this level, I'd say it's almost a prerequisite 

[Thomas]

2 minutes ago, Lou said:

at this level, I'd say it's almost a prerequisite 

You do have to be able answer the question "Who would be the best person to run this country?" and answer "Well me obviously."  
I don't feel qualified to pick pizza toppings.

[Lou]

4 hours ago, cezero said:

it works with his moron followers. that's why he does it. 

ironically, the stupidest strategy any rational adult could possibly think up is devastatingly effective for him. 

the ones on here are on the high end of the spectrum when it comes to being able to rub brain cells together. 

dude, can you go one f'n post in this forum without calling other members of our site morons, stupid, etc? please remember that most of us here are friends, regardless of which side of the aisle they support (or if you don't give a damn about any of it)

i think you're a great guy, cez, but your act in this forum has run it's course, so knock it off.

 

GO ANGELS! 

Edited March 5, 2017 by Lou