Does getting Rendon only give Eppler a pass?

[tomsred]

3 minutes ago, Revad said:

I going to be pissed if Eppler doesn’t improve the roatation.

He has already improved the starting pitching, but the "roatation", well that might be another story.  I will let you know as soon as I figure out exactly what that is.

[Revad]

40 minutes ago, CanadianHalo said:

That reddit guy very well may end up being spot on about our offseason 

Just sign Ryu

2 minutes ago, Vladdylonglegs said:

According to most here he upgraded the rotation with Bundy. 

I meant improve from the current state. Overpay in salary (Ryu) or in prospects for who exactly is available.

[mulwin444]

50 minutes ago, Vladdylonglegs said:

You don’t know this yet but you’re going to say the same thing about Eppler when he gets axed while you blow the new GM. This is a classic superfan cycle. 

Between free agent signings that lost draft picks for minimal return, passing on Vlad Jr for Roberto Baldoquin to take us out of the International free agent market for a bit, or trading guys like Clevinger for Pestano, Dipoto left the roster old, expensive, with zero pitching depth and a 30th ranked farm system.  The only thing Dipoto forgot to do on his way out of Anaheim is salt of infield, take a dump in the Gatorade cooler and give Arte a Stinky Sanchez.

If Eppler was fired today, he'd still be the best GM they've had since Stoneman.

[Revad]

6 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

Between free agent signings that lost draft picks for minimal return, passing on Vlad Jr for Roberto Baldoquin to take us out of the International free agent market for a bit, or trading guys like Clevinger for Pestano, Dipoto left the roster old, expensive, with zero pitching depth and a 30th ranked farm system.  The only thing Dipoto forgot to do on his way out of Anaheim is salt of infield, take a dump in the Gatorade cooler and give Arte a Stinky Sanchez.

If Eppler was fired today, he'd still be the best GM they've had since Stoneman.

I wish Arte would extend him, because I think it should be done but also it would give him a better leverage to do what must be done for this year and for five years from now.

[Second Base]

Rendon doesn't five Eppler a pass. 

WINNING gives Eppler a pass.

This team needs to be a playoff team in 2020. I just don't think there's any way around that. Arte has given Eppler 5 years, and has given him more than enough money to spend. 

If the Angels don't win in 2020, then Eppler needs to be fired. 

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, ettin said:

This off-season is not over.

Say it is....  They have improved and kept all their bullets....   It's not the apocalypse people are making it out to be.

[Pancake Bear]

9 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Rendon doesn't five Eppler a pass. 

WINNING gives Eppler a pass.

This team needs to be a playoff team in 2020. I just don't think there's any way around that. Arte has given Eppler 5 years, and has given him more than enough money to spend. 

If the Angels don't win in 2020, then Eppler needs to be fired. 

Probably, but consider this: The next guy may be hired specifically because they’ll promise to be more proactive in building a playoff team.  How do you imagine that will happen? Say goodbye to every prospect you’re so attached to. 

I won’t be shocked if Eppler gets sacked, and it might end up being for the best, but keep in mind that probably means going full Dipoto. 

[mulwin444]

16 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Rendon doesn't five Eppler a pass. 

WINNING gives Eppler a pass.

This team needs to be a playoff team in 2020. I just don't think there's any way around that. Arte has given Eppler 5 years, and has given him more than enough money to spend. 

If the Angels don't win in 2020, then Eppler needs to be fired. 

You guys talk like Eppler has had free reign to sign and spend however he wanted since day 1.  When do you think the team started to recover to the point where a $200-$300 million free agent contract made sense?  Last offseason?  You, amongst a few others here, are pretty aware of the Angels available prospects during his initial years here (2016-2018) and what they could realistically do on the international market.  If you don't have surplus prospects to trade who are advanced enough to garner a top player in a trade and you are basically starting from zero with viable MLB-quality prospects to graduate to the MLB level and you can't buy your way into contention like the Red Sox, Yankees and Dodgers, just how long do you think it takes to build a winner while also not completely tanking because you are trying keep the best player in baseball from leaving?

People want to win NOW but forgot what the cost of winning NOW was from 2004 - 2014.

You saw what it did and people want to repeat the cycle because they didn't like the feeling of losing but why blow it up with Eppler when his moves are essentially the reason the Angels have anything of worth at all and anyone coming in will just be succeeding on the foundation he built unless they blow it up themselves.

Edited December 22, 2019 by mulwin444

[Revad]

15 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Rendon doesn't five Eppler a pass. 

WINNING gives Eppler a pass.

This team needs to be a playoff team in 2020. I just don't think there's any way around that. Arte has given Eppler 5 years, and has given him more than enough money to spend. 

If the Angels don't win in 2020, then Eppler needs to be fired. 

This year will be different, really not like all those other years of Angels fandom.  At least it might be.

[Tank]

46 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Say it is....  They have improved and kept all their bullets....   It's not the apocalypse people are making it out to be.

but narratives!

[ettin]

50 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Say it is....  They have improved and kept all their bullets....   It's not the apocalypse people are making it out to be.

Your positivity is very off-putting again.

[Halodays]

Think middle of the road people. That is where Eppler lives when acquiring pitchers. No wow factor pitchers coming this year but hoping he proves me wrong.

[kevinb]

Rendon is more on Arte than it is Eppler. Those big signings like Pujols Hamilton Trout is more Arte flexing his wallet than it is Eppler doing stuff. Eppler is more the in between signings than anything else imo. 

[mmc]

1 hour ago, mulwin444 said:

You guys talk like Eppler has had free reign to sign and spend however he wanted since day 1.  When do you think the team started to recover to the point where a $200-$300 million free agent contract made sense?  Last offseason?  You, amongst a few others here, are pretty aware of the Angels available prospects during his initial years here (2016-2018) and what they could realistically do on the international market.  If you don't have surplus prospects to trade who are advanced enough to garner a top player in a trade and you are basically starting from zero with viable MLB-quality prospects to graduate to the MLB level and you can't buy your way into contention like the Red Sox, Yankees and Dodgers, just how long do you think it takes to build a winner while also not completely tanking because you are trying keep the best player in baseball from leaving?

People want to win NOW but forgot what the cost of winning NOW was from 2004 - 2014.

You saw what it did and people want to repeat the cycle because they didn't like the feeling of losing but why blow it up with Eppler when his moves are essentially the reason the Angels have anything of worth at all and anyone coming in will just be succeeding on the foundation he built unless they blow it up themselves.

The A's don't spend any money and since the 2015 offseason, have acquired multiple starting pitchers that have helped them win such as Rich Hill, Brett Anderson, Frankie Montas, Edwin Jackson, Trevor Cahill (yes he was actually good there), Homer Bailey, and Mike Fiers.  We had one year of Alex Meyer, Jhoulys Chacin, and Parker Bridwell (none of whom are on the team anymore), and 10 starts of Ohtani.  Stop making excuses for him.

[beatlesrule]

I suggested Co GMs before and got laughed at. Eppler isn't good at everything he should be as our GM. A GM that is good in FA and knows how to put together a pitching staff and doesn't hire his surfing buddy to be coach should be in charge of that stuff and Eppler is the GM that would build the farm and focus on international signings and buying sunglasses and other things he is good at.

The Angels still need to improve their pitching staff and catcher. I'll save my judgement until it's clear he is done making moves this offseason.

[Wisconsin27]

I don't think Mulwin or anyone else is arguing that Eppler has fallen short on the FA SP additions he's made in his tenure.  His record there has been rather abysmal.  

With regards to the 7 players the A's acquired, they certainly had some success for them.  Perhaps it's organizational?  Heck, Chacin had better results after he left us.  But you will also note none of the 7 are they types of #1/2 pitchers we are all longing for, either.  Bean is pretty damn special.

I don't think the level of mismanagement that occurred for literally years was ever going to result in an organizational turnaround in less that 5 years.  We were in the worst situation possible....contract hell, depleted farm, and no tradable assets.  Billy deserves some level of criticism, for sure.  But people acting like the performance of this team over the last 3-4 years is solely on him is misplaced.  I agree with Mulwin and others in that he's the best GM we've had since Stoneman and we will sadly miss him if we cut ties too early.  

This is the first year he's been able to truly be a player in the market.  He's attained the best position player available while in his prime.  He may choose to gut the farm he built and go for it to "win now" or keep his job, but I just don't think that would be consistent with his vision.  I think that's why we've seen him exercise restraint in the FA market.  Heck, if he didn't think he would be here in two years he would have bitten on some of these larger contracts that most of us consider a bit of a stretch.  One could argue that he has been experiencing what it's like to be contract hell with declining performers and doesn't want to go through it again 4+ years from now.

It's a lot to ask, but I think we need to find a little bit more patience and see what plays out.  We still have some time.  Most here have already braced for the "overpay" of either prospects or FA contract costs...and that's fine.  I just hope it's via FA/contract costs as I really hope to see his vision of developing a strong farm that replenishes the major league club with affordable, controlled talent come to fruition.  Hell, we've waited this long, so now is not the time to grow impatient.  

 

 

[angelsnationtalk]

What does this have to do with Eppler? Moreno was the one who told Boras after meeting about Cole that he wanted Rendon.

This one is on Arte.... again

[Pancake Bear]

2 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

What does this have to do with Eppler? Moreno was the one who told Boras after meeting about Cole that he wanted Rendon.

This one is on Arte.... again

Rendon is a win. We’d be in for a really bad year without him. I’m also not of the opinion that Rendon is all Arte. I think he certainly helped, but it wasn’t as if he wasn’t on their list regardless or that they stopped pursuing pitching just to bring Rendon in. 

[angelsnationtalk]

2 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

Rendon is a win. We’d be in for a really bad year without him. I’m also not of the opinion that Rendon is all Arte. I think he certainly helped, but it wasn’t as if he wasn’t on their list regardless or that they stopped pursuing pitching just to bring Rendon in. 

I agree Rendon really helps protect Trout and all this other great stuff, but has nothing to do with Eppler getting a “pass”. I’m just pointing out that this again seems like an Arte signing. Our offense is solid, but damn seems like Eppler is still on the edge with pitching. 

[Pancake Bear]

6 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

I agree Rendon really helps protect Trout and all this other great stuff, but has nothing to do with Eppler getting a “pass”. I’m just pointing out that this again seems like an Arte signing. Our offense is solid, but damn seems like Eppler is still on the edge with pitching. 

Nothing in what we heard indicates Arte insisted they sign Rendon or at any point in the process or the plan was changed, or even that he did anything beyond tell Boras to tell Rendon that he (Arte) was interested in Rendon being an Angel. That’s it. 

Could he have been more involved? Maybe, but it’s mostly fan speculation. Eppler indicated he was always on their list. They were still in on Cole until the end. Eppler spoke before that about raising their overall run differential and that there were different paths to that. In other words, he was always one option for improving the team, and he become the best option once high end pitching options were out. 

[Inside Pitch]

4 hours ago, Pancake Bear said:

Nothing in what we heard indicates Arte insisted they sign Rendon or at any point in the process or the plan was changed, or even that he did anything beyond tell Boras to tell Rendon that he (Arte) was interested in Rendon being an Angel. That’s it. 

Could he have been more involved? Maybe, but it’s mostly fan speculation. Eppler indicated he was always on their list. They were still in on Cole until the end. Eppler spoke before that about raising their overall run differential and that there were different paths to that. In other words, he was always one option for improving the team, and he become the best option once high end pitching options were out. 

Dude you're wasting your breath.   

They have already convinced themselves that Rendon is on Arte and that Eppler was merely along for the ride.  At the same time they seemingly believe that Arte then said "okay, you have all the money you want to spend now" but Eppler decided not to use it because you know, he's a moron.

So ....to date.... their version of what's happened is Arte got to spend 36 Mil and Eppler only chose to spend what is essentially the Calhoun money (14 mil), on two meh SPs despite having the infinite resources to pursue any FA because "he's bad at attracting free agents" even though he could outbid everyone else.  That's what makes sense to them....  And why?  Because Arte got his atta boy he's a great owner speech from the agent and everyone else involved who's best interest it is for fan-bases to believe some owners are good and willing to spend while others won't and don't care about winning.   Poof!!!!!! four plus years of yacht fuel jokes fade away....

It really is hilarious.... Previously, Arte was used to absolve JD of any wrong doing, now he's being used to indict Eppler.

History lesson....  Arte has always said that they have a budget but that the money was there for the right person... Cole, Rendon obviously fell into that category.... Keuchel most certainly does not.  Arte is being true to his nature, and so are Angels fans...

[Inside Pitch]

9 hours ago, ettin said:

Your positivity is very off-putting again.

It's not even positivity... It's just reality. 

People spent a great deal of time talking about the need to add multiple innings eaters, they have done that.  They also added an MVP caliber player at a position that's been viewed negatively for a decade.  That move makes it possible to slide players around and improves other positions as well...    They might still have money, they definitely still have their best prospect capital...  

Personally I think its foolish to believe they would punt on guys like Canning and Sandoval, so adding safety net types makes sense.  I'd still like to see them add someone of greater quality but we will see how it plays out.

[tdawg87]

I love pudding.

[CanadianHalo]

6 hours ago, angelsnationtalk said:

What does this have to do with Eppler? Moreno was the one who told Boras after meeting about Cole that he wanted Rendon.

This one is on Arte.... again

Dude you’re wasting your breath.

They’ve already convinced themselves Rendon was a Billy signing and that Arte didn’t push him onto Rendon. 

So... to date... their version of what’s happened is that Billy hasn’t had any freedom before this offseason despite blowing 40 million on Cahill, Harvey and Allen last season. They’ve all convinced themselves there was no possible way we could’ve landed any of the guys they were all banging the table for before FA. Now they justify to themselves like they do every year why so and so will have a career year or so and so will bounce back and we’ll be in the playoffs. 

Then come July, when we’re 10 GB of Houston and Heaney is on the IL they’ll say we’re cursed and it’s all bad luck. Next year will be different!

[Stradling]

18 minutes ago, CanadianHalo said:

Dude you’re wasting your breath.

They’ve already convinced themselves Rendon was a Billy signing and that Arte didn’t push him onto Rendon. 

So... to date... their version of what’s happened is that Billy hasn’t had any freedom before this offseason despite blowing 40 million on Cahill, Harvey and Allen last season. They’ve all convinced themselves there was no possible way we could’ve landed any of the guys they were all banging the table for before FA. Now they justify to themselves like they do every year why so and so will have a career year or so and so will bounce back and we’ll be in the playoffs. 

Then come July, when we’re 10 GB of Houston and Heaney is on the IL they’ll say we’re cursed and it’s all bad luck. Next year will be different!

In a word, no