The Caravan(s)

[mtangelsfan]

You are kidding, right?

[UndertheHalo]

1 minute ago, mtangelsfan said:

You are kidding, right?

No I’m not kidding. 

[Jason]

13 hours ago, Rico said:

 

I wonder if it's more cost effective to have them on our borders rather than other countries?

[Jason]

24 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Please, tell me all about how Nancy Pelosi has spent the last 30 years tacitly endorsing false conspiracy theories.  Please tell me about how Harry Reid broke the functioning of the government.  Mitch McConnell has set a course for the destruction of the republic. 

When I have I ever said that Democrats aren’t flawed ? Politicians are sleezy.  Democrats do and have done scummy things.  They haven’t brought “dark money” they haven’t actively worked to disenfranchise voters on a large scale.  They simply aren’t insidious in the same ways.  Republicans are the ones that have introduced this concept of facts aren’t facts or they’ve massively utilized it.  Republicans are the ones that are in bed with white supremecists.  

You’re entitled to your opinion.  I’m entitled to mine. 

And these aren’t my flaws.  And I’ll thank you to not accuse me of them. 

Usually in California we have a pick between two Democrats. That feels like disenfranchisement if you vote red. 

[UndertheHalo]

5 minutes ago, Jason said:

Usually in California we have a pick between two Democrats. That feels like disenfranchisement if you vote red. 

In a democracy the majority rules.  Sorry. Ridiculous for you to compare this.  You know exactly what I’m talking about.  The gerrymandering.  The other obscene tricks that we’re seeing right now in Kansas and Georgia.  

You’d make Californians that you disagree with votes count less to have it your way. 

Literally disenfranchisement.  In California the republicans get their votes and they lose.  So they don’t get to have the senate seats.  There’s nothing resembling disenfranchisement. 

Edited November 6, 2018 by UndertheHalo

[floplag]

52 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

Come on man, Pelosi?  Reid?  

How about Feinstein who cares so much about women that she held on to the Ford report to get at Kavanugh instead of putting it out there right away.  How about Booker who pretended he was taking a stand when he wasn't?

i am incredibly amazed at how people can't see their own flaws.

This is the part that drives me literally insane when even attempting to discuss politics.   People so blinded by their agenda that they lose sight of their sides flaws.   Or worse those who try to justify them based on the failures of the other side. 

 

15 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

In a democracy the majority rules.  Sorry. Ridiculous for you to compare this.  You know exactly what I’m talking about.  The gerrymandering.  The other obscene tricks that we’re seeing right now in Kansas and Georgia.  

You’d make Californians that you disagree with votes count less to have it your way. 

Literally disenfranchisement.  In California the republicans get their votes and they lose.  So they don’t get to have the senate seats.  There’s nothing resembling disenfranchisement. 

UTH, i respect your zeal, but man oh man if you think that stuff isnt being done on both sides, youre not paying attention or are blinded by your zeal. 

Interesting comment about making some peoples votes count less.  I wonder, have you ever checked the voting results in recent elections by county or district?   If you had you would see that outside of the LA/SB/SF metro areas and maybe Sacramento, the entire rest of the state has carried red.  If the states vote were split by distract, as some others are and i personally believe all should be, Dems would not win this state.  Most Ca Reps i know barely bother on the statewide ballots anymore.  That is the literal definition of disenfranchisement. 

Also you may recall a few years back that thing called prop 8, on gay marriage, that was passed in this state, by your same majority.   Cant say majority rules and ignore times when it failed us.  Its far from perfect.
 

[UndertheHalo]

27 minutes ago, floplag said:

This is the part that drives me literally insane when even attempting to discuss politics.   People so blinded by their agenda that they lose sight of their sides flaws.   Or worse those who try to justify them based on the failures of the other side. 

 

UTH, i respect your zeal, but man oh man if you think that stuff isnt being done on both sides, youre not paying attention or are blinded by your zeal. 

Interesting comment about making some peoples votes count less.  I wonder, have you ever checked the voting results in recent elections by county or district?   If you had you would see that outside of the LA/SB/SF metro areas and maybe Sacramento, the entire rest of the state has carried red.  If the states vote were split by distract, as some others are and i personally believe all should be, Dems would not win this state.  Most Ca Reps i know barely bother on the statewide ballots anymore.  That is the literal definition of disenfranchisement. 

Also you may recall a few years back that thing called prop 8, on gay marriage, that was passed in this state, by your same majority.   Cant say majority rules and ignore times when it failed us.  Its far from perfect.
 

Flop, I don’t care about  maps.  More people live in those metro areas.  By a wide, wide, wide margin.  I don’t accept this argument as a valid one.  

And this is exactly what I’m talking about.  You are literally endorsing  gerrymandering.  You would take voting power away from people you disagree with simply because you don’t have enough people who agree with you to get your way.  That’s not democracy.  It manipulating the system in order to force a different outcome then the one that a simple vote produces.  Stop playing games man.  Exactly what you’re saying is that more people (conveniently liberals) are clustered into smaller areas.  Therefore on your map you think it’s unfair and their voting power should be diminished.  

And prop 8 was ruled unconstitutional by the federal courts.  I don’t understand your point here.  Further, times have changed.  A lot actually.  Even if prop 8 wasn’t ruled unconstitutional I believe it would be easily defeated today.  Weird that’s the thing you’ve decided to make a sticking point.  Have the gays being allowed to elope caused you hardship ? 

Edited November 6, 2018 by UndertheHalo

[Blarg]

3 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

they haven’t actively worked to disenfranchise voters on a large scale.

Basket of deplorables ring any bells? 

[Taylor]

13 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Basket of deplorables ring any bells? 

Yeah, it was horrible when Hillary tried to tweak the system so that conservatives couldn't vote.

[UndertheHalo]

1 hour ago, Blarg said:

Basket of deplorables ring any bells? 

Ya, probably one of her most truthful moments. 

[Kevin]

7 hours ago, Jason said:

I wonder if it's more cost effective to have them on our borders rather than other countries?

Having troops on our border makes a lot more sense than the simpletons view of "just build a wall to keep them out."

Makes more sense as well to have them on our border than in other countries. The only problem? We're still in other countries with no end in sight of leaving. Running up the cost here and there but don't worry, we can always print more money. 

[Amazing Larry]

I’ve been screaming to bring our troops home since time immorial. Not just from Iraq and Afghanistan but from Syria, Germany, So. Korea and Japan. Our military spending is out of control and we don’t even get what we pay for.

[Blarg]

4 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

Ya, probably one of her most truthful moments. 

And there you go proving you're no better if you were on board with insulting a large part of the population that simply disagrees with your politics. She was a hideous candidate and all the money in the world couldn't buy her a presidency. 

[Jason]

9 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

In a democracy the majority rules.  Sorry. Ridiculous for you to compare this.  You know exactly what I’m talking about.  The gerrymandering.  The other obscene tricks that we’re seeing right now in Kansas and Georgia.  

You’d make Californians that you disagree with votes count less to have it your way. 

Literally disenfranchisement.  In California the republicans get their votes and they lose.  So they don’t get to have the senate seats.  There’s nothing resembling disenfranchisement. 

For the primaries they do. Not the general election. Generally, there isn't a party option on the ballot that decides who gets the seat. For example, I get a choice or Feinstein of De Leon for the Senate. I don't have the option of voting Republican, Independent or Libertarian. I think it should be the top primary vote getter in the party that gets on the ballot (how dare we have more than two options). This was done in California to keep the democrats in power for a long time. Like Flop said, with the LA and Bay area the Dems have a stranglehold on the states political structure. Not giving political conservatives an option other than a Democrat is disfranchisement. Lol, I'm voting Feinstein just so De Leon doesn't get near that seat. I feel dirty. 

 

[mtangelsfan]

6 hours ago, Taylor said:

Yeah, it was horrible when Hillary tried to tweak the system so that conservatives couldn't vote.

Dude, she did exactly that against Bernie.

You guys sure are using a very specific and fortunate definition of disenfranchisement.  Anyone who isn't red or blue has been disenfranchised for decades.  

[gotbeer]

3 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

Dude, she did exactly that against Bernie.

You guys sure are using a very specific and fortunate definition of disenfranchisement.  Anyone who isn't red or blue has been disenfranchised for decades.  

Sanders Won In Colorado. So Why Didn't He Win More Delegates?

 

[floplag]

8 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

Flop, I don’t care about  maps.  More people live in those metro areas.  By a wide, wide, wide margin.  I don’t accept this argument as a valid one.  

And this is exactly what I’m talking about.  You are literally endorsing  gerrymandering.  You would take voting power away from people you disagree with simply because you don’t have enough people who agree with you to get your way.  That’s not democracy.  It manipulating the system in order to force a different outcome then the one that a simple vote produces.  Stop playing games man.  Exactly what you’re saying is that more people (conveniently liberals) are clustered into smaller areas.  Therefore on your map you think it’s unfair and their voting power should be diminished.  

And prop 8 was ruled unconstitutional by the federal courts.  I don’t understand your point here.  Further, times have changed.  A lot actually.  Even if prop 8 wasn’t ruled unconstitutional I believe it would be easily defeated today.  Weird that’s the thing you’ve decided to make a sticking point.  Have the gays being allowed to elope caused you hardship ? 

Of course you dont, it doesnt fit your narrative, but how do you think they feel?

I am 100% not endorsing anything that gives anyone an advantage, at all.  I would be fine with them simply using country boundaries or something logical, ive never suggested otherwise.   Creating artificial boundaries, IE gerrymandering, is wrong.  But both sides do it and have done so forever, you act like its uniquely Rep.

The point on pro 8 is that you basically said majority rules, deal with it... well the majority is not always right.   I did not support 8, but it is the thesis against simply majority. in my opinion.

[mtangelsfan]

9 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

Flop, I don’t care about  maps.  More people live in those metro areas.  By a wide, wide, wide margin.  I don’t accept this argument as a valid one.  

And this is exactly what I’m talking about.  You are literally endorsing  gerrymandering.  You would take voting power away from people you disagree with simply because you don’t have enough people who agree with you to get your way.  That’s not democracy.  It manipulating the system in order to force a different outcome then the one that a simple vote produces.  Stop playing games man.  Exactly what you’re saying is that more people (conveniently liberals) are clustered into smaller areas.  Therefore on your map you think it’s unfair and their voting power should be diminished.  

And prop 8 was ruled unconstitutional by the federal courts.  I don’t understand your point here.  Further, times have changed.  A lot actually.  Even if prop 8 wasn’t ruled unconstitutional I believe it would be easily defeated today.  Weird that’s the thing you’ve decided to make a sticking point.  Have the gays being allowed to elope caused you hardship ? 

Yeah, screw those country bumkins.  They don't think like us, they don't act like us, they do different things than us, so screw them.

[mtangelsfan]

LOL, figures

[Adam]

Oh please Lord can today be over already?

[Amazing Larry]

50 minutes ago, Adam said:

Oh please Lord can today be over already?

Not turning on the TV until around 10:00 if at all.

[floplag]

1 hour ago, Adam said:

Oh please Lord can today be over already?

While i agree, im also a bit nervous about what could happen either way with as much hatred and anger thats being stirred up.   At this point im just praying for peace and that we can somehow someway get past all this and get back to doing whats right for all americans.

[Taylor]

3 hours ago, mtangelsfan said:

Dude, she did exactly that against Bernie.

You guys sure are using a very specific and fortunate definition of disenfranchisement.  Anyone who isn't red or blue has been disenfranchised for decades.  

That is true.

[Adam]

I'm pretty sure no one where I live gives a shit aside from my MAGA neighbor. 

[Rico]

No update on the Caravan since the election?

 

Anyway, there is this.