The best players on this team.....

[Angel Oracle]

Has the scouting gotten worse since Stoneman left? Because very few acquisitions have worked out, and the same with prospects.

[dimitrig]

To me the worst part is trading prospects for rentals or guys with bad contracts. It's one thing to trade them to get Greinke, but it's quite another if Greinke isn't under contract (or under a good contract). Trading Napoli was probably okay. Trading him for Wells wasn't.  The Angels traded a lot of guys away with nothing to show for it.

[rageous]

Main problem is giving these huge contracts to older players.

That is never going to work out well especially in giving 10 years to Pujols.

They could have spent quarter of that money and invested in foreign players like Darvish, Ryu and Cespedes and not lost all the draft picks as well.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

Also, I think Arte needs to understand that we are now in the post-steroids, post-HGH era. Guys are not going to have their best seasons in their late 30's while their juicing to get that last huge retirement contract. Pre-steroid era, the best five year span for a Major League player statistically was always 28-32. I think things are going back to that, so signing guys at the tail end of that age range, or past it, to long-term deals is franchise suicide.

 

This is a very big point. Players who have big years past the age of 32-33 are going to be very rare from here on out. Nobody is suddenly going to hit 70 home runs or win 25 games at 38 or 39. That train has left the station.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

I agree with you.  However, if you posted this at the time of the Pujols signing how many fans would have agreed that the signing was franchise suicide, and would be willing to ask that Arte not do it.  Probably darn few.

 

I was one of them, and I said so at the time. A ten-year deal was, and is, preposterous. IMO no player should be given more than a four-year contract, five at the outside - and that is dependent upon the age of the player at the time of the deal.

[LBHalos17]

The last good homegrown class we had was '02.... The Salmon class.

Will be awhile re-building with homegrown picks.

[Season Over]

It's a little late to adopt that policy. The farm system is a disaster right now.

[stormngt]

I do remember how upset so many fans would get at Stoneman when he wouldn't pull the trigger on the big trade or FA signing.

I owe penance on that one.  I blasted Stoneman for never making the big trade.  Boy do I regret that and do I miss Stoneman.

[stormngt]

The problem isn't that we gave out big contracts to free agents. The problem is we gave big contracts to the WRONG free agents. Both Pujols and Hamilton were probably going to start declining no matter where they ended up. If DiPoto signs Fielder and Greinke instead, this topic doesn't exist. Look at the Detroit Tigers - the bulk of their key players were acquired via free agency (Fielder) or trading away highly touted prospects to acquire proven major league players (Miggy, Sanchez, ect.). Take away those guys and their lineup is pitiful.

The failures of this team are more related to player analysis than they are to the organization philosophy of buying expensive free agents. It's basically hit or miss either way you approach it. Remember the mid-2000's when we had to live through failure after failure of highly touted, "in-house" prospects like Wood, Mathis, Kotchman, and McPherson? All of those guys could have been used to acquire impact major leaguers who would have helped us get over that hump toward a second WS title. At one point, they probably would have been enough to net us a guy like Miguel Cabrera. Most Angel fans were asking just the opposite of what we want now - to sign FAs and use unproven prospects to acquire sure things at the major league level. Also, Vlad Guerrero, the heart and soul of what was probably the most consistent Angels team in franchise history, was an expensive FA signing (don't forget guys like Torii and Colon either).

You know its interesting, I wonder if Mcphearson, Kotchman, Wood, and Mathis would have gotten us Miggy?  I don't think it would have taken much more.

[saangels]

Trading talented prospects is a two way street.  I'm all for developing and holding onto the youngsters.  But think how much we could have got once upon a time for Brandon Wood and Dallas McPherson.  George Arias was supposed to hit 40 home runs a year back in the early 90's.  These guys don't always pan out.  If you have two guys who are roughly the same age and play the same position (Aybar, Kendrick, Segura), I think it's smart to trade one of them away and improve at a position with less depth.  The Angels' mistake is not their over-reliance on the FA market.  It's their over-reliance on older, declining players.  Vlad was 27 or 28 when we signed him.  He panned out great.  Pujols and Hamilton are going to ruin us.       

[Ohtaniland]

Signing big named free agents is always a gamble. Dipoto is a very bad gambler.

[mancini79]

You know its interesting, I wonder if Mcphearson, Kotchman, Wood, and Mathis would have gotten us Miggy?  I don't think it would have taken much more.

 

Kendrick and Adenhart were the key players for that trade. The third would have been Saunders or Wood. In the off-season before the trade, the Marlins turned down an offer from the Dodgers that included Kemp, Loney and Billingsley. Marlins wanted Kershaw.

[Tyler]

Sometimes the best posts are the ones you don't make, AZ.

[AZMike]

Sometimes the best posts are the ones you don't make, AZ.

fair enough. I deleted the comment you're referring to

[Chuck]

Even the 200 club had players brought in via free agency or a trade. 

 

Key guys like Eckstein, Kennedy, Donnelly, Weber, Spiezio, Figgins, Sele, Ochoa, Appier and Benji Gil, all guys who contributed toward the Angels getting to and winning the series that year. 

 

In 2004, the Angels had a heck of a team, as they did in 2008 and 2009. Many of those players were brought in via a trade or free agency and mixed in well with our core guys from our system. 

 

So like a couple others said, you gotta do a little of both as a GM. 

[Erstad Grit]

The trade for Figgins might be a top 5 Angels move of all-time. 

[Angel Oracle]

And to answer the question of how many under 30 players are available to sign as a FA...then you just don't sign any of the 30-plus aged big money FAs and find other ways (without destroying the farm) to to get over the top.

 

Name one team that won consistently with high-priced age 30+ FAs being acquired often?  

 

Now that you have your big tv contract Arte, you can STOP signing high priced aging players!

 

And while yes I was frustrated that Stoneman never signed ANY high-proced FAs outside of GMJHGH, that didn't mean I wanted the reverse to be the case (sign them all).   All I asked for was ONE (and not GMJHGH) while Stoneman was the GM. 

[dimitrig]

And to answer the question of how many under 30 players are available to sign as a FA...then you just don't sign any of the 30-plus aged big money FAs and find other ways (without destroying the farm) to to get over the top.

 

Name one team that won consistently with high-priced age 30+ FAs being acquired often?  

 

Now that you have your big tv contract Arte, you can STOP signing high priced aging players!

 

And while yes I was frustrated that Stoneman never signed ANY high-proced FAs outside of GMJHGH, that didn't mean I wanted the reverse to be the case (sign them all).   All I asked for was ONE (and not GMJHGH) while Stoneman was the GM. 

 

The problem isn't signing guys over 30 or even paying them top dollar. The problem is the length of the contracts. If you can't get them on a 3 year contract then forget it and move on. These 5+ year contracts have to stop for guys in their 30's.

[Angel Oracle]

That is a great point. Contracts are too long today.